Your Top Ten Patch 1.2 Items List - Page 9

akdavis · 04-07-07, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricnunes

Excluding the bugs I would like to see the list of American aircraft changed which is IMO the one of the worse game issues in SH4. Here are the changes that I would like to see in 1.2:
-> First, the already mentioned Lancaster. I realy don't understand what happend in the minds of the SH4 devs! REALLY, what were they thinking when they put the Lancaster in SH4??

They (and they being ubisoft lawyers in this case) were thinking they don't want to be sued or threatened by giant US defense contractors who assert the right to demand money for the graphical representation of aircraft they (or companies bought out by them) produced during the Second World War. (Yes, seriously. You don't really think the devs know the difference between a Sargo and Gato, but not a Lancaster and a Catalina?)

My bugs/unfinished elements list:

1. Errors causing random CTDs.
2. Loading a save game should restore the game to exact state it was saved in. Anything else is unacceptable.
3. TDC bugs, including torpedo speed, chronometer, bearing wheels and resetting torpedo settings.
4. Damage model bugs (in particular random loss of buoyancy after an attack, but only underwater and with no reported damage to pressure hull/bulkheads and no flooding), consistent damage feedback in damage control screen and subs' incredible resistance to heavy naval gunfire.
5. Radar bugs including simply not functioning when compass heading is south of east or west, air search radar picking up surface contacts, SD radar giving bearing information, radar commands not working consistently, switched A-scope/PPI stations on command bar, access to PPI display before historically available.
6. Optimize environmental effects and separate the various effects into different options (all other options reduce FPS 1-2 frames, but environmental effects option cuts frames in half). Standard fog should replace volumetric fog when that option is not selected.
7. Finish the campaign/career system (cloned groups of inappropiate ship types, missing layers, base change orders not received, log book eats memory, receiving the same mission twice in a row, upgrades not working, unrealistic air opposition, not all ammo restored when refitting).
8. Sonar functioning should not be tied to an arbitrary depth (performance should degrade with sea state and proximity to surface, should only stop functioning if sonar head is not in the water).
9. Massive slow down when closing to an area of the map with lots of activity while under high time compression, leading to sub traveling without control beyond waypoints, crashing into land, etc.
10. Deck gun bugs, including stabilized optics regardless of difficulty option selection, crew aiming points not reflecting actual target and range displayed in meters.

11. AI problem (yeah, can't believe I forgot this one): When under attack, merchants should not slow to a crawl, turn broadside to you and stop, or play follow the leader with a doomed ship.

All in all, just stabilize the engine and finish the game with the vision that is clearly present beneath the rough exterior.

Egan · 04-07-07, 01:05 PM

1: Fix Invisible monolith causing massive FPS drop when using Enviro-effects
2: Fix crewmen being injured when manning damaged stations - even if they weren't there when the damage happened.
3: fix TDC bugs/ speed measurement.
4: Fix deadzones on Radar and the switching off/ changing modes when you enter the station.
5: Add support for Both AA and higher resolutions
6: Please allow the messages for radar contacts to be changed so we can tell at a glance if the operator is picking up SD or SJ contacts
7: please, pretty please, pretty thrice please add a crashdive option to the pop up orders box you get when a ship / aircraft is spotted.
8: If at all possible please externalise the files that relate to time spent in port / transfers and refits so that we can mod them.
9: Err,
10: thats all for now thankyou very much!

supposedtobeworking · 04-07-07, 02:38 PM

1. TDC must be fixed and completely operable and reliable.

2. Torpedo speed setting on fast must be fixed and corrected.

3. Crew responses must be fixed so there is no stutter and more responses from them would be nice--esp with more human-like voices if possible.

4. Better internal damage--I rammed a ship the other day and the lights didn't even flicker, just the camera bounced around---like a bad Star Trek special effect from the TOS.

Those are the big ones for me--trying to think of hard-coded stuff which modders can't improve on. thanks.

ricnunes · 04-07-07, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akdavis

They (and they being ubisoft lawyers in this case) were thinking they don't want to be sued or threatened by giant US defense contractors who assert the right to demand money for the graphical representation of aircraft they (or companies bought out by them) produced during the Second World War. (Yes, seriously. You don't really think the devs know the difference between a Sargo and Gato, but not a Lancaster and a Catalina?)

Actually they can solve the problem by naming the an aircraft of for example Torpedo Bomber instead of Grumman Avenger or Scout Plane instead of Consolidated Catalina which was exactly what they did. So making an aircraft which resembles a Buffalo instead of a Wildcat will not make them more or less prone to lawsuits as long as they don't use any of these company names and even if they use the military designation only (for example: F4F) they shoudn't have any problem since that name is the military designation and therefore public.
And if what you said was true why wasn't UBI sued when they did and released SH3, a game which included the Avenger and the Catalina?

Cap'n Crabs · 04-07-07, 08:44 PM

1. Clipboard slowdown. I have 1 gig of ram and often have 15-20 minute delays later in a campaign mission.

That should not be.
2. Monolith/enviro slow down.
3. Too many plane attacks in the middle of nowhere.
4. Batteries run down way too quick.
5. Bad clipping in the tub when manning the AA at the 90 or 270 degree ranges, blocks the view of incoming planes when trying to site them in.
6. Repaired items being damaged again for no reason.
7. Sometimes it seems the sub sinks to it's death with very little damage if you go a little beyond periscope depth.
8. AI ... hard to say what this is, but it seems destroyers will sometimes find you when they clearly shouldn't and other times seem too tired to make any effort to locate you.
9. A ship explodes, you hear the explosion sound effect, and it will start to loop but stops. Also the other looping sounds as already mentioned.
10. The damage model is not consistant. Some ships seem to have no damage model for them, others are fine. I love the effect when it works though

11. Not a bug, but a wish, to have a checkbox or what have you, to turn off crew management all together. I know others enjoy it but I would like the option to turn it off if I want to.
Those are the main ones for me, there are others but I can't remember them at this time.
Despite the bugs, I'm really enjoying this game, and believe it will only get better. The water is just beautiful.
I just recently installed GWX mod, so there's plenty to keep me going between the two.

akdavis · 04-07-07, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricnunes

Quote:

Originally Posted by akdavis

They (and they being ubisoft lawyers in this case) were thinking they don't want to be sued or threatened by giant US defense contractors who assert the right to demand money for the graphical representation of aircraft they (or companies bought out by them) produced during the Second World War. (Yes, seriously. You don't really think the devs know the difference between a Sargo and Gato, but not a Lancaster and a Catalina?)

Actually they can solve the problem by naming the an aircraft of for example Torpedo Bomber instead of Grumman Avenger or Scout Plane instead of Consolidated Catalina which was exactly what they did. So making an aircraft which resembles a Buffalo instead of a Wildcat will not make them more or less prone to lawsuits as long as they don't use any of these company names and even if they use the military designation only (for example: F4F) they shoudn't have any problem since that name is the military designation and therefore public.
And if what you said was true why wasn't UBI sued when they did and released SH3, a game which included the Avenger and the Catalina?

Whether a threat is rationale or would stand up in court is irrelevant. Ubi, and with very good cause, is avoiding anything even remotely related to the, as far as I know still unresolved, PF debacle. The rights the contractors have asserted go beyond their names, far beyond. They might not be legimate claims, but the contractors have more than enough money to let it go to court. Very few game companies have the money to spend on any level of legal dispute. It cheaper for them to just avoid these people altogether. You might also note that a certain ship is missing and another goes without a proper class name. This means much if you followed the PF saga.

But that is beside my point. Whether or not there is a solution to the problem, the allegation that the devs included the Lancaster as a US search plane, or the Buffalo as the principal naval fighter because they were stupid, ignorant, or willfully negligent (and I'm not really speaking of you, but the broader reaction) is misplaced, to say the least. What the devs were thinking doesn't really count for much in this.

Personally, I think complaints about the in-game Allied plane roster should be directed straight to the desk of Northrop-Grumman's CEO and some other select corporate types.

ricnunes · 04-15-07, 07:46 AM

Akdavis, I don't think that's irrelevant as you said because game developers have been doing this for quite a long time and this is specially visible within car-genre games. The majority of those devs decide to make the cars on their games as being amost equal to the real counterparts (anyone can see that) but they decide to name those same cars with something diferent from the real name and the truth is that this works and there are no lawsuits against any developer/publisher of a car game. There are also a few ones that use real names but they use licences for that and such devs are a minority.
Take for example the GTA series, I don't know if you play those games but I do an they are among my favourite and everyone I believe can identify the cars in those games with they real counterparts, for example the Banshee is clearly a Dogde/ChryslerViper and a Stalion is a Mustang, etc... Does the devs from GTA have any lawsuit because of the modeled cars, NO of course not! So resuming, as long as the devs don't include the name of the company or any name related to the company (example: a model of the car) no problem should will happen to them.

The problems with military sims started with Pacific Fighters from Maddox games but to be honest they were stupid. They put on the back of the game's box the following:
Fly with real planes such as the Grumman F4F Willcat, so basically they were asking for this.
An by the way the problem that happened with Northrop-Grumman's can happen tommorow with any other company like for example the ones that made the subs in SH4 (which I don't who was) or with any other non-US companies (Mitsubitshi for example).

Joe S · 04-15-07, 09:05 AM

Here's my top eight on my limited time with the "game" so far:
1)obviously,Crashes have to be fixed first.
2) TDC has to be working properly
3) If the scope recticle isnt properly graduated, that should be fixed
4) opt out for crew management
5)restore sonar at periscope depth
6)allow manual input or range without using split image device
7display time to complete torpedo reload
8)complete the documentation

Some of these may not be "bugs" but when features have been in prior subsims and have become accepted as representative of the state of the art, it should be a given that they be used as a starting point for future game development.

A missioin creator like the one we had in SHI would be great!
Map notes that automatically denote the time of entry would be great and realistic. A button to return to normal time compression is a no brainer as far as I am concerned. Joe S

Cap'n Crabs · 04-15-07, 09:29 AM

A couple more...
I want drawing tools on my Attack map.

If my home base changes, provide a message from comsubpac stating so. It's a hassel to go into a cfg file to see where it's changed to.

Uber tankers. Had one that refused to go down.

DeepSix · 04-15-07, 01:26 PM

"Fire One!"

BUG: 'A' key. Showstopper.

-------------------------------
"Fire Two!"

BUG: TDC doesn't work. Also, "easy mode" with auto-targeting should be that - "easy."
- torpedoes miss astern
- torpedoes reset themselves to default state
- can't set torpedo speed to "high"
- Mark 14s seem too reliable (FEATURE)
- Mark 23s don't seem reliable enough (FEATURE)
BUG: Damage control
- not enough indication of hull integrity or ability to dive safely (I think an audible "Pressure hull damaged!" is all you get)
- repaired equipment spontaneously damages itself again
- crew reports undamaged equipment as now repaired
FEATURE: Clipboard. Serves no real useful purpose and ruins performance more than any other single issue. "Contact" messages are merely duplicates of what's already in the dialog box. Fox and PacNews should all be audible over the radio.
FEATURE: Ultra is not really Ultra. "Escorts are priorty; clear up for follow up attacks" is not a particularly realistic Ultra directive. "Intercept Shokaku at [a
given LAT/LONG]" would be.
FEATURE: Boats are not technically accurate enough in some respects. Crush depths, Balao radar, S-class speed, etc. Classes are misnamed or indistinct. Or mispelled. For the record: P-O-R-P-O-I-S-E.
BUG: Radar
- SD radar picks up surface contacts.
- SJ radar only works at certain angles.

-------------------------------
"Fire Three!"

BUG: Fuel consumption
BUG: Sound loops ("Yes sir! Yes sir! Rudder! Rudder! Yes sir! Yes sir!")
FEATURE: Generally crappy voice overs. These guys all sound like they're wacked out on something or riding a roller coaster, not serious sailors on a wartime boat.
("New! depth! 1! 9! 8!") Can we please send Seaman Spongebob to the brig. Permanently. ("Contact! Mr. Crabs! Bearing! 2! 7! 0!") This stuff is really a serious
mood-breaker. How about a simple "Make my depth 2-5-0, aye" ?

-------------------------------
"Fire Four!"

BUG: Transparent deck crew
BUG: Monolith
BUG: 1-knot convoys/TFs milling around
BUG: You accept command of a new boat but some game text continues to refer to the old one.

-------------------------------
"Fire Five!"

FEATURE: Patrol assignments, esp. early war patrols, are a bit off. Pearl-based boats should go to the home islands, the Sea of Japan; Australia-based boats deal with the Philippines, DEI, coast of Indochina, etc. Base transfer is generally screwy, too. No message or order to relocate to new base.

-------------------------------
"Fire Six!"

FEATURE: Posthumous court-martial is unrealistic.
FEATURE: Silly or inane dialogs (radio messages, post-patrol text and commendations, cut-scenes, etc.) are either unrealistic or melodramatic (or both) = mood-spoilers.
FEATURE: Service ranks are wrong (where are the Motor Macs, for instance?)
FEATURE: Crew complement is too gamey. You can stack your boat with officers, or Master Chiefs, or whatever you and your renown desire.

-------------------------------
"Time on those torpedoes?"
"God only knows, sir."
"Very well. Ahead one-third. Take 'er down to 300. Stand by for depth charges."
"But sir, we are out of oxygen and must surface...."

CaptainHaplo · 04-15-07, 01:40 PM

Great lists so far - here is another to consider - not necessarily the order they need - although #1 is top of the list for that reason!

#1 - Save Game Issue (not there or CTD) - this has been around since Sh3 in some form or another - We as consumers deserve a 100% working save/load ability. If the cause is the submerged/to near ship issue as many seem to think - then get it working the rest of the time and then note to us that saving when we are submerged and dodging DD's isnt gonna work. I think alot of us would accept that if it worked the rest of the time.

#2 - Save Game Issue - Changing or harming crew on reload - does this need an explanation as to why it should be fixed? If they werent hurt or dead when I saved, why are they now?

#3 - "A" button Ctd - dunno why this does it - but a maintain course and depth button that ejects me from the game is a bad thing,

#4 - Chronometer "bug" - more a feature. Its listed as working in the manual - so it ought to be fixed. I can do manual solutions without it - but alot of folks want it and I agree that since its listed as there - it should get some attention.

#5 - Message Log "bug" - I have been bitten by this one - and while I have the patience to wait for it to load - there is a better way. Simply create a delete "button" on each entry - that way each player can delete what they dont want and keep it manageable. The other choice - after 24/48 hours - the reports of convoys and task groups can be deleted. If the player is pursuing, or if he was ignoring the report - either way he doesnt need it - so deleting it would solve the issue.

#6 - Graphical "glitches" (Monolith of FPSDeath, etc) - While I havent hit these yet - anything that causes my framerate to die like this needs attention.

#7 - AI - specificaly Convoy/Merchant AI - Taking a merchie and having the rest slow to 4 knots or less - sometimes circling - is really a killer. Once you get your first hit - the rest become sheep in a slaughter. In reality - each ship would go to max speed and set a course away from the attack - trying to reform later. While I understand making the AI do that may not be feasible - at least they ought to go to max speed and flee - even if they do it together. Yes - some may outdistance others, but the ai could be made to get the "laggers" to stay at a higher speed till they retake their proper position (thats what sh3 did). Better than "lets all stop and get sunk".

#8 - AI - Escorts. They seem to be plenty aggressive if your outside the screen - but once you get into the "convoy box", they seem to literally ignore you. Even if you go high speed with your tower out of the water, they are hesitant to charge in. SH3 had escorts who would not hesitate to penetrate the convoy box to pursue you - so this shouldnt be too hard to fix - hopefully.

#9 - Ship physics / Collision avoidance / Damage - This is probably too much to ask - but no ship should be able to go from 8 knots to 33 in 30 seconds. The engines may turn the props to get that fast - but the acceleration/deceleration coefficients really need work. Granted - I accept that this is likely a tradeoff made since the collision avoidance AI can only do so much. Even with the concessions made - I still see lifeboats getting crunched by DD's (then the DD sinks???) Would love to see this be a bit more realistic.

#10 - Its not a bug fix, or a promised feature - but it looks like the devs made a start and I would love to see it finished - that is the "roster" of ships and its incorporation to the campaign. I don't know how much they were able to work on this - but being able to fully implement it - no more sinking 5 yamoto's in a career - would really make the sinkings we get be more appreciated - especially knowing that with only one (or a limited number of the type of vessel) out there - if you see it - you arent likely to get another shot at it for the rest of the war....

Now - some on this list are game "killers" - the save game issue being really the largest. With all that said - let me say this to the devs and to the community. SH4 is a heck of a game - and while rushed (not the dev's fault - thats HQ orders making it ship) the game is still an excellent work that I enjoy greatly. The devs, with UBI support - did alot of work on SH3 and I suspect they will do the same for SH4. TO UBI and the DEVS - thank you for your hard work in bringing an excellent game forward. Nothing is perfect, but with your willingness to listen to us, the consumer, we can get this game to truly realize its great potential.

To those in the community that scream that we never get any results and that ubi never listens and harken back to SH3 - or the fact that the 1.2 patch isnt all inclusive and already out - I have one word for you.....

STARFORCE!

Ubi listened to us on this issue - and now we have a game that - while not perfect - isnt screwing up our DVD drives! SH3 had 4 patches - expect SH4 to get good support. And thank them when you get a patch that actually doesnt screw more stuff up - let em fix things as they can and test em.

I spent good money on SH4 - and I am not saying its perfect - but I spent money with a company that - with SH3 - proved they would listen to me, and you. Thank you Ubi - and thank you Devs. You will continue to have my business - and my appreciation - as long you continue to make, and then support - quality games.

Good Hunting All
Captain Haplo

u48 · 04-15-07, 03:32 PM

Please please please....A lot of us UK Subbies would like to see a Brit sub added....Just 1-2 classes.....After all we did our part as well.......Salute !

7Enigma · 04-15-07, 04:20 PM

CTD and save issues. I could care less about the more minor issues right now. Just make it so that when I have to leave the game mid-mission because my 10-month old is crying I can actually come BACK to the game as I left it. I have never, NEVER, experienced another game (except SHIII) that was released (and even after patches) didn't correct this gross negligence. I mean, comon, how difficult would this have been to spot on the SEQUAL to the game it first appeared in...

And please, I beg of you, don't try to add or improve anything that currently works. Fix your problems first, then think about what you would like to implement to enhance the game.

04-15-07, 01:26 PM	#130
DeepSix Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Music City Posts: 683 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	My list "Fire One!" BUG: 'A' key. Showstopper. ------------------------------- "Fire Two!" BUG: TDC doesn't work. Also, "easy mode" with auto-targeting should be that - "easy." - torpedoes miss astern - torpedoes reset themselves to default state - can't set torpedo speed to "high" - Mark 14s seem too reliable (FEATURE) - Mark 23s don't seem reliable enough (FEATURE) BUG: Damage control - not enough indication of hull integrity or ability to dive safely (I think an audible "Pressure hull damaged!" is all you get) - repaired equipment spontaneously damages itself again - crew reports undamaged equipment as now repaired FEATURE: Clipboard. Serves no real useful purpose and ruins performance more than any other single issue. "Contact" messages are merely duplicates of what's already in the dialog box. Fox and PacNews should all be audible over the radio. FEATURE: Ultra is not really Ultra. "Escorts are priorty; clear up for follow up attacks" is not a particularly realistic Ultra directive. "Intercept Shokaku at [a given LAT/LONG]" would be. FEATURE: Boats are not technically accurate enough in some respects. Crush depths, Balao radar, S-class speed, etc. Classes are misnamed or indistinct. Or mispelled. For the record: P-O-R-P-O-I-S-E. BUG: Radar - SD radar picks up surface contacts. - SJ radar only works at certain angles. ------------------------------- "Fire Three!" BUG: Fuel consumption BUG: Sound loops ("Yes sir! Yes sir! Rudder! Rudder! Yes sir! Yes sir!") FEATURE: Generally crappy voice overs. These guys all sound like they're wacked out on something or riding a roller coaster, not serious sailors on a wartime boat. ("New! depth! 1! 9! 8!") Can we please send Seaman Spongebob to the brig. Permanently. ("Contact! Mr. Crabs! Bearing! 2! 7! 0!") This stuff is really a serious mood-breaker. How about a simple "Make my depth 2-5-0, aye" ? ------------------------------- "Fire Four!" BUG: Transparent deck crew BUG: Monolith BUG: 1-knot convoys/TFs milling around BUG: You accept command of a new boat but some game text continues to refer to the old one. ------------------------------- "Fire Five!" FEATURE: Patrol assignments, esp. early war patrols, are a bit off. Pearl-based boats should go to the home islands, the Sea of Japan; Australia-based boats deal with the Philippines, DEI, coast of Indochina, etc. Base transfer is generally screwy, too. No message or order to relocate to new base. ------------------------------- "Fire Six!" FEATURE: Posthumous court-martial is unrealistic. FEATURE: Silly or inane dialogs (radio messages, post-patrol text and commendations, cut-scenes, etc.) are either unrealistic or melodramatic (or both) = mood-spoilers. FEATURE: Service ranks are wrong (where are the Motor Macs, for instance?) FEATURE: Crew complement is too gamey. You can stack your boat with officers, or Master Chiefs, or whatever you and your renown desire. ------------------------------- "Time on those torpedoes?" "God only knows, sir." "Very well. Ahead one-third. Take 'er down to 300. Stand by for depth charges." "But sir, we are out of oxygen and must surface...." __________________ Jack's happy days will soon be gone, To return again, oh never! For they've raised his pay five cents a day, But they've stopped his grog forever. For tonight we'll merry, merry be, For tonight we'll merry, merry be, For tonight we'll merry, merry be, But tomorrow we'll be sober. - "Farewell to Grog"

04-07-07, 01:05 PM	#122
Egan Admiral Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,020 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	1: Fix Invisible monolith causing massive FPS drop when using Enviro-effects 2: Fix crewmen being injured when manning damaged stations - even if they weren't there when the damage happened. 3: fix TDC bugs/ speed measurement. 4: Fix deadzones on Radar and the switching off/ changing modes when you enter the station. 5: Add support for Both AA and higher resolutions 6: Please allow the messages for radar contacts to be changed so we can tell at a glance if the operator is picking up SD or SJ contacts 7: please, pretty please, pretty thrice please add a crashdive option to the pop up orders box you get when a ship / aircraft is spotted. 8: If at all possible please externalise the files that relate to time spent in port / transfers and refits so that we can mod them. 9: Err, 10: thats all for now thankyou very much!

04-07-07, 02:38 PM	#123
supposedtobeworking XO Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 436 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	1. TDC must be fixed and completely operable and reliable. 2. Torpedo speed setting on fast must be fixed and corrected. 3. Crew responses must be fixed so there is no stutter and more responses from them would be nice--esp with more human-like voices if possible. 4. Better internal damage--I rammed a ship the other day and the lights didn't even flicker, just the camera bounced around---like a bad Star Trek special effect from the TOS. Those are the big ones for me--trying to think of hard-coded stuff which modders can't improve on. thanks.

04-07-07, 08:44 PM	#125
Cap'n Crabs A-ganger Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 71 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	1. Clipboard slowdown. I have 1 gig of ram and often have 15-20 minute delays later in a campaign mission. That should not be. 2. Monolith/enviro slow down. 3. Too many plane attacks in the middle of nowhere. 4. Batteries run down way too quick. 5. Bad clipping in the tub when manning the AA at the 90 or 270 degree ranges, blocks the view of incoming planes when trying to site them in. 6. Repaired items being damaged again for no reason. 7. Sometimes it seems the sub sinks to it's death with very little damage if you go a little beyond periscope depth. 8. AI ... hard to say what this is, but it seems destroyers will sometimes find you when they clearly shouldn't and other times seem too tired to make any effort to locate you. 9. A ship explodes, you hear the explosion sound effect, and it will start to loop but stops. Also the other looping sounds as already mentioned. 10. The damage model is not consistant. Some ships seem to have no damage model for them, others are fine. I love the effect when it works though 11. Not a bug, but a wish, to have a checkbox or what have you, to turn off crew management all together. I know others enjoy it but I would like the option to turn it off if I want to. Those are the main ones for me, there are others but I can't remember them at this time. Despite the bugs, I'm really enjoying this game, and believe it will only get better. The water is just beautiful. I just recently installed GWX mod, so there's plenty to keep me going between the two.

04-15-07, 07:46 AM	#127
ricnunes Watch Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 26 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Akdavis, I don't think that's irrelevant as you said because game developers have been doing this for quite a long time and this is specially visible within car-genre games. The majority of those devs decide to make the cars on their games as being amost equal to the real counterparts (anyone can see that) but they decide to name those same cars with something diferent from the real name and the truth is that this works and there are no lawsuits against any developer/publisher of a car game. There are also a few ones that use real names but they use licences for that and such devs are a minority. Take for example the GTA series, I don't know if you play those games but I do an they are among my favourite and everyone I believe can identify the cars in those games with they real counterparts, for example the Banshee is clearly a Dogde/ChryslerViper and a Stalion is a Mustang, etc... Does the devs from GTA have any lawsuit because of the modeled cars, NO of course not! So resuming, as long as the devs don't include the name of the company or any name related to the company (example: a model of the car) no problem should will happen to them. The problems with military sims started with Pacific Fighters from Maddox games but to be honest they were stupid. They put on the back of the game's box the following: Fly with real planes such as the Grumman F4F Willcat, so basically they were asking for this. An by the way the problem that happened with Northrop-Grumman's can happen tommorow with any other company like for example the ones that made the subs in SH4 (which I don't who was) or with any other non-US companies (Mitsubitshi for example).

04-15-07, 09:05 AM	#128
Joe S XO Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 409 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	Here's my top eight on my limited time with the "game" so far: 1)obviously,Crashes have to be fixed first. 2) TDC has to be working properly 3) If the scope recticle isnt properly graduated, that should be fixed 4) opt out for crew management 5)restore sonar at periscope depth 6)allow manual input or range without using split image device 7display time to complete torpedo reload 8)complete the documentation Some of these may not be "bugs" but when features have been in prior subsims and have become accepted as representative of the state of the art, it should be a given that they be used as a starting point for future game development. A missioin creator like the one we had in SHI would be great! Map notes that automatically denote the time of entry would be great and realistic. A button to return to normal time compression is a no brainer as far as I am concerned. Joe S

04-15-07, 09:29 AM	#129
Cap'n Crabs A-ganger Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 71 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	A couple more... I want drawing tools on my Attack map. If my home base changes, provide a message from comsubpac stating so. It's a hassel to go into a cfg file to see where it's changed to. Uber tankers. Had one that refused to go down.

04-15-07, 01:40 PM	#131
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Great lists so far - here is another to consider - not necessarily the order they need - although #1 is top of the list for that reason! #1 - Save Game Issue (not there or CTD) - this has been around since Sh3 in some form or another - We as consumers deserve a 100% working save/load ability. If the cause is the submerged/to near ship issue as many seem to think - then get it working the rest of the time and then note to us that saving when we are submerged and dodging DD's isnt gonna work. I think alot of us would accept that if it worked the rest of the time. #2 - Save Game Issue - Changing or harming crew on reload - does this need an explanation as to why it should be fixed? If they werent hurt or dead when I saved, why are they now? #3 - "A" button Ctd - dunno why this does it - but a maintain course and depth button that ejects me from the game is a bad thing, #4 - Chronometer "bug" - more a feature. Its listed as working in the manual - so it ought to be fixed. I can do manual solutions without it - but alot of folks want it and I agree that since its listed as there - it should get some attention. #5 - Message Log "bug" - I have been bitten by this one - and while I have the patience to wait for it to load - there is a better way. Simply create a delete "button" on each entry - that way each player can delete what they dont want and keep it manageable. The other choice - after 24/48 hours - the reports of convoys and task groups can be deleted. If the player is pursuing, or if he was ignoring the report - either way he doesnt need it - so deleting it would solve the issue. #6 - Graphical "glitches" (Monolith of FPSDeath, etc) - While I havent hit these yet - anything that causes my framerate to die like this needs attention. #7 - AI - specificaly Convoy/Merchant AI - Taking a merchie and having the rest slow to 4 knots or less - sometimes circling - is really a killer. Once you get your first hit - the rest become sheep in a slaughter. In reality - each ship would go to max speed and set a course away from the attack - trying to reform later. While I understand making the AI do that may not be feasible - at least they ought to go to max speed and flee - even if they do it together. Yes - some may outdistance others, but the ai could be made to get the "laggers" to stay at a higher speed till they retake their proper position (thats what sh3 did). Better than "lets all stop and get sunk". #8 - AI - Escorts. They seem to be plenty aggressive if your outside the screen - but once you get into the "convoy box", they seem to literally ignore you. Even if you go high speed with your tower out of the water, they are hesitant to charge in. SH3 had escorts who would not hesitate to penetrate the convoy box to pursue you - so this shouldnt be too hard to fix - hopefully. #9 - Ship physics / Collision avoidance / Damage - This is probably too much to ask - but no ship should be able to go from 8 knots to 33 in 30 seconds. The engines may turn the props to get that fast - but the acceleration/deceleration coefficients really need work. Granted - I accept that this is likely a tradeoff made since the collision avoidance AI can only do so much. Even with the concessions made - I still see lifeboats getting crunched by DD's (then the DD sinks???) Would love to see this be a bit more realistic. #10 - Its not a bug fix, or a promised feature - but it looks like the devs made a start and I would love to see it finished - that is the "roster" of ships and its incorporation to the campaign. I don't know how much they were able to work on this - but being able to fully implement it - no more sinking 5 yamoto's in a career - would really make the sinkings we get be more appreciated - especially knowing that with only one (or a limited number of the type of vessel) out there - if you see it - you arent likely to get another shot at it for the rest of the war.... Now - some on this list are game "killers" - the save game issue being really the largest. With all that said - let me say this to the devs and to the community. SH4 is a heck of a game - and while rushed (not the dev's fault - thats HQ orders making it ship) the game is still an excellent work that I enjoy greatly. The devs, with UBI support - did alot of work on SH3 and I suspect they will do the same for SH4. TO UBI and the DEVS - thank you for your hard work in bringing an excellent game forward. Nothing is perfect, but with your willingness to listen to us, the consumer, we can get this game to truly realize its great potential. To those in the community that scream that we never get any results and that ubi never listens and harken back to SH3 - or the fact that the 1.2 patch isnt all inclusive and already out - I have one word for you..... STARFORCE! Ubi listened to us on this issue - and now we have a game that - while not perfect - isnt screwing up our DVD drives! SH3 had 4 patches - expect SH4 to get good support. And thank them when you get a patch that actually doesnt screw more stuff up - let em fix things as they can and test em. I spent good money on SH4 - and I am not saying its perfect - but I spent money with a company that - with SH3 - proved they would listen to me, and you. Thank you Ubi - and thank you Devs. You will continue to have my business - and my appreciation - as long you continue to make, and then support - quality games. Good Hunting All Captain Haplo

04-15-07, 03:32 PM	#132
u48 Mate Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: England Posts: 52 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Please please please....A lot of us UK Subbies would like to see a Brit sub added....Just 1-2 classes.....After all we did our part as well.......Salute !

04-15-07, 04:20 PM	#133
7Enigma Helmsman Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 103 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	CTD and save issues. I could care less about the more minor issues right now. Just make it so that when I have to leave the game mid-mission because my 10-month old is crying I can actually come BACK to the game as I left it. I have never, NEVER, experienced another game (except SHIII) that was released (and even after patches) didn't correct this gross negligence. I mean, comon, how difficult would this have been to spot on the SEQUAL to the game it first appeared in... And please, I beg of you, don't try to add or improve anything that currently works. Fix your problems first, then think about what you would like to implement to enhance the game.