US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

What about the aid France gave during the American Revolutionary War? Seems the US owes France a great deal as well.

I wouldn't disagree with that at all. However, the degree of assistance rendered to France by the U.S far and away eclipses the amount of assistance France rendered to the U.S. That's in Dollar values. Further, the degree of devastation visited upon France by Germany was on a much larger scale than what England did in the U.S.

That being said, the degree of assistance rendered by France was timely.

Your post illustrates the fact that the U.S and Europe have always supported each other. It's my hope, that will continue in the foreseeable future.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Maybe it's as simple as Subsim members giving Jim the respect he has earned and not wanting to make his duties here more difficult than necessary.

As AvgWarhawk has said, people have varying opinions, thoughts and Ideas on Trump's Presidency. Our members should accept that and not use the Subsim Forum's to attack other members and their respective Country's. I have seen the U.S being denigrated by Subsim members from mainly, Countries in Europe. It's understandable that Subsim members from the U.S would be upset over this unfair treatment.

I think it would be helpful if Subsim remembered that large parts of Europe, including Germany, were rebuilt by the U.S on the U.S taxpayers dime after WW2. This is after Germany started not one but two World Wars. This is of course, well documented. The United States under the Marshall Plan in 1948 provided economic aid for the reconstruction of Western Europe after World War II. The aid amounted to $13.3 billion Dollars to help restore economies and Infrastructure in Western Europe.

Europe owes the U.S a great deal and should show some gratitude. In the Interim, I think Subsim Members should endeavor to make Jim's job as easy as we can.

Graph showing Distribution of U.S Economic aid under the U.S Marshall Plan in 1948.





https://www.nationalww2museum.org/wa...nomic-recovery


https://www.archives.gov/milestone-d.../marshall-plan


https://www.statista.com/statistics/...an-by-country/


https://www.everycrsreport.com/files...bfa8e84664.png

The Netherlands has repaid its Marshall Plan debt to the United States, the finance ministry announced on Sunday (23 December 1968). The total amount of $5.5 million was repaid 15 years early. $5.5 million was redeemed 15 years early. ‘The early repayment was made by the Netherlands as an appropriate form of cooperation in the light of the overall US balance of payments situation,’ the finance ministry said. The US$129.5 million loan was made to the Netherlands in 1948. Under the original repayment schedule, the principal would have been repaid by the Netherlands in instalments in the years 1976 to 1983. https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/1968/12/23...34884-a2832612

This is true for all other countries that received the Marshall Plan so don't keep bringing up old hat. We have already paid off this debt 57 years ago stop your whining!

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Dargo

The Netherlands has repaid its Marshall Plan debt to the United States, the finance ministry announced on Sunday (23 December 1968). The total amount of $5.5 million was repaid 15 years early. $5.5 million was redeemed 15 years early. ‘The early repayment was made by the Netherlands as an appropriate form of cooperation in the light of the overall US balance of payments situation,’ the finance ministry said. The US$129.5 million loan was made to the Netherlands in 1948. Under the original repayment schedule, the principal would have been repaid by the Netherlands in instalments in the years 1976 to 1983. https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/1968/12/23...34884-a2832612

This is true for all other countries that received the Marshall Plan so don't keep bringing up old hat. We have already paid off this debt 57 years ago stop your whining!

The question of whether your Country repaid it''s debt is irrelevant. If it wasn't for the U.S, the National language in your country would be German and you would be a German Citizen.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

The question of whether your Country repaid it''s debt is irrelevant. If it wasn't for the U.S, the National language in your country would be German and you would be a German Citizen.

The Soviets made a bigger sacrifice to defeat Hitler than the US, that by the way was not the only country fighting Germany. So you can still cry me a river, I have no debt to you. The Soviet Union lost around 27 million people during the war, including 8.7 million military and 19 million civilian deaths.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Dargo

The Soviets made a bigger sacrifice to defeat Hitler than the US, that by the way was not the only country fighting Germany. So you can still cry me a river, I have no debt to you. The Soviet Union lost around 27 million people during the war, including 8.7 million military and 19 million civilian deaths.

The Soviet Union should have made bigger sacrifices considering it made pacts with Hitler and then was double crossed. Hitler invaded the Soviet Union as part of operation Operation Barbarossa in Nazi Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union, which began on June 22, 1941 When you sleep with dogs, you get fleas. You should be able to attest to that.

The reality is, the war in Europe was your fight, not ours.. I also never said that other Countries never fought and made contributions. Australia, Canada, New Zealand and England among many. Truth be told, it was England itself with Australian ,Canadian and American units that enlisted in England that held the line and fought against Hitler in Europe, until the U.S could get into the war.

Your Country cowardly did the same as Russia, declaring it's neutrality to Hitler. Your Country suffered the same fate as the Soviet Union. Your Country surrendered to Germany after a German Invasion in 4 days. How laughable is that ? We should have left your Country to be devoured by Germany.

Quote: The Holocaust saw the mass murder of Dutch Jews by Nazi Germany in occupied Netherlands during the Second World War. The Nazi occupation in 1940 immediately began disrupting the norms of Dutch society, separating Dutch Jews in multiple ways from the general Dutch population. The Nazis used existing Dutch civil administration as well as the Dutch Jewish Council "as an invaluable means to their end"

Canadian Units liberated the Concentration Camps in the Netherlands. As far as deaths in the Soviet Union, Stalin Killed many more Millions of his own people than did World War 2 during the purges there.

Now, cry me a river.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...he_Netherlands

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ho...he_Netherlands

[Dargo]

Being neutral had nothing to do with Hitler or the USSR, the Netherlands was a neutral country like Sweden and Switzerland from 1839 to 1940. Oh, we had a transit camp, just like every country occupied by Germany. And yes, we had comparatively high chances of picking up Jews because we had faith in registration, the Germans only had to open the cabinets to pick out the Jews. None of this makes us owe you anything. Same as I don't blame Germany of the now for anything that happened in 1940-1945.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Dargo

Being neutral had nothing to do with Hitler or the USSR, the Netherlands was a neutral country like Sweden and Switzerland from 1839 to 1940. Oh, we had a transit camp, just like every country occupied by Germany. And yes, we had comparatively high chances of picking up Jews because we had faith in registration, the Germans only had to open the cabinets to pick out the Jews. None of this makes us owe you anything.

I never said you owed us anything. I think a certain modicum of gratitude would be appropriate, considering the sacrifices to liberate your Country and Europe. It doesn't alter the fact that you Country declared it's neutrality refusing to fight for it's own people. That's so pathetic. It also doesn't alter the fact that your Country cowardly surrendered four days after it was invaded. You left it to other countries to fight for you. A great uncle of mine was seriously and permanently injured at Bastogne on their way to Liberate the Netherlands. I hold nothing against Germany or it's people, either.

Your Country left it to others to do their fighting and then you say you don't owe anyone anything. You're a real piece of work. I would ask if you have served in your Military ? I suggest you learn how to fight and not be a coward. Maybe do your own fighting for a change instead of relying on others to do your fighting.

[Skybird]

[Reece]

I opened a can of worms Marc!!

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Reece

I opened a can of worms Marc!!

You didn't open a can of worms, Reece. We in the U.S are simply tired of seeing our Country repeatedly bashed over and over. Those individuals from these Countries doing the bashing have their own Issues. We in the U.S don't revel in the misfortunes of other Countries. Others from these Countries love doing that to us. Subsim isn't the place for this.

I noticed that those dishing it out don't like when they are hit back with History and such. After four months, we in the U.S are tired of it. A simple solution for those involved. Refrain from the Country bashing. Dargo and others are at the top of the list of those involved.

[Skybird]

That is your view of things, Commander Wallace. I would neither say it is the authoritative one, nor an unbiased one. Which might be owed to the Zeitgeist in your country. And Trump.



Meanwhile, reality sets in:


[FOCUS] Trump wanted to bring China to its knees economically – instead, the US economy is reeling. The withdrawal of the punitive tariffs is more than just an admission: It is a political failure.

Donald Trump's announcement that he will not impose the 145 percent punitive tariffs on Chinese imports into the United States signals a complete defeat for the US president. His plan to impose new trade rules with the US on the entire world has thus failed.

Just a few days after the punitive tariffs went into effect on April 2, Trump was forced to backtrack because the stock and bond markets plummeted, and around $9.6 trillion in stock market capitalization was wiped out in just four days because of him.

To save some face, Trump suspended the punitive tariffs for the entire world except for China. There, he even went further, announcing that this was not the end of the line. His goal was to forge a global alliance against the People's Republic: all against one.

Now, less than three weeks later, these punitive tariffs are also history and have landed in the trash. The increased prices for US imports to China caused a dramatic drop in sales in the People's Republic. And the increased prices for imports from China to America are making these products unaffordable for consumers in the United States.

From vacuum cleaners to food blenders, everything is almost 2.5 times more expensive than it was in March. As a result, many Chinese companies are no longer shipping goods to America at all. US companies, in turn, cannot fill this gap in a short time, so Americans are now faced with empty shelves or unaffordable products.

Since China possesses the world's most important reserves of rare earths, which are essential for the production of smartphones, refrigerators, and satellite technology, Beijing had the upper hand here as well. That's why Trump initially lifted the tariffs on these products, because otherwise the US economy would have faced unforeseeable difficulties. This, too, was a foreseeable defeat, and observers are wondering what scenario the US president had in mind that kept him believing he could defeat Beijing.

Donald Trump said that the punitive tariffs would now be reduced overall, not just for specific sectors, without committing to a specific number, but they would "not go to zero." Previously, his Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessent, called Trump's punitive tariffs "unsustainable." In Donald Trump's own words, he is now "a total loser," and Xi Jinping, his Chinese counterpart, is the winner.

China successfully gambled on waiting to see how the global economy would develop in response to Trump's trade policy. Even though Beijing had signaled that it remained open to talks, the country's communist leadership ruled out sending Xi Jinping into direct negotiations with Trump without any basis or basis for what America actually expects from China.

The US president, who approaches all political matters more like a bully than a diplomat, hoped to use his punitive tariffs to put pressure on China and ultimately bring it to its knees, with the calculation that he would then also subjugate all the other countries he had threatened with reviving his punitive tariffs after the expiration of his 90-day "grace period."

In the US president's mind, all the nations threatened with punitive tariffs were already meekly queuing ("ready to kiss my ass," as he put it in vulgar language) to sign a trade deal with him. Although Washington had begun talks with its partners in Asia, especially South Korea and Japan, it had not made public what was discussed and what concessions were being considered. To describe the start of negotiations as a "big win" is bold.

The People's Republic had already warned countries like Japan against falling into Trump's trap and concluding a new deal that would require them to harm China economically in return. But Tokyo would have absolutely no opportunity to do so, because the Japanese economy, like many others in the world, is now so closely linked to supply chains that run through China that decoupling the two countries is out of the question, even if they wanted to. Tokyo is under particular pressure because Japan is the first country with which the Trump administration entered into trade negotiations last week.

Experts say Japan has little to offer the US to boost sales of American products in the island nation. They point to the possibility of importing more rice from the US. Such a move would not reduce the trade deficit between the two countries, which stands at approximately $54.5 billion.

Would increased rice exports to Japan justify exuberant talk of a "big win"? Hardly, but Donald Trump currently has to sell even the smallest progress as a major victory to avoid being seen as a loser. All the rhetoric, however, does not change the fact that he has already lost the trade war with China, the feud with President Xi Jinping, after just a few weeks.
--------------


I am all for confronting Chinese trade practices and their cheating and manipulation, Chinese traders have had a lousy reputation throughout Asia since many, many centuries. But seeking the fight in the way Trump did, was both stupid and ridiculous. He does not even have a realistic awareness for his/America's own strengths - and weaknesses. Not to mention that of the others, and China.



Simply playing the barbar, standing with your legs wide apart, fists on your hips, and lying and yelling and shouting at and spitefully mocking everyone else is a bit of a stretch.



And stupid to try with modern China.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

What about the aid France gave during the American Revolutionary War? Seems the US owes France a great deal as well.

Anyway, The Trump administration is extremely close to finding themselves in contempt.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...15.100.0_2.pdf

"III. Conclusion

Based on the foregoing, the Defendants’ objections are largely overruled and sustained in part only as to Interrogatories 9–11 and RPDs 6–8. Plaintiffs must narrow Interrogatories 9–11 and RPDs 6–8 consistent with this Order and resubmit to Defendants by no later than 8:00 PM tonight.

Defendants shall answer and respond to all outstanding discovery requests and supplement its invocation of privilege as directed by no later than 6:00 PM April 23, 2025.

So Ordered.
April 22, 2025
Date
/S/
Paula Xinis
United States District Judge"

The individual in question can come have his due process. He will be going back after the due process is processed.

Just for craps and giggles, all being deported should have their due process? I mean, if determined to be here illegally we should sit and wait for what exactly? This individual has been picked up and placed in front of a judge multiple times. How much due process does he need?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I am all for confronting Chinese trade practices and their cheating and manipulation, Chinese traders have had a lousy reputation throughout Asia since many, many centuries. But seeking the fight in the way Trump did, was both stupid and ridiculous. He does not even have a realistic awareness for his/America's own strengths - and weaknesses. Not to mention that of the others, and China.



Simply playing the barbar, standing with your legs wide apart, fists on your hips, and lying and yelling and shouting at and spitefully mocking everyone else is a bit of a stretch.



And stupid to try with modern China.

And the entire world sits on their hands. Trump confronts China with their unfair trade practices, manipulation, strong arming and patent theft. Nothing but hot air on what an idiot he is.

What is Frank-Walter Steinmeier doing to combat this issue with China?

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That is your view of things, Commander Wallace. I would neither say it is the authoritative one, nor an unbiased one. Which might be owed to the Zeitgeist in your country. And Trump.

Meanwhile, reality sets in:

[FOCUS] Trump wanted to bring China to its knees economically – instead, the US economy is reeling. The withdrawal of the punitive tariffs is more than just an admission: It is a political failure.

Donald Trump's announcement that he will not impose the 145 percent punitive tariffs on Chinese imports into the United States signals a complete defeat for the US president. His plan to impose new trade rules with the US on the entire world has thus failed.

Just a few days after the punitive tariffs went into effect on April 2, Trump was forced to backtrack because the stock and bond markets plummeted, and around $9.6 trillion in stock market capitalization was wiped out in just four days because of him.

To save some face, Trump suspended the punitive tariffs for the entire world except for China. There, he even went further, announcing that this was not the end of the line. His goal was to forge a global alliance against the People's Republic: all against one.

Now, less than three weeks later, these punitive tariffs are also history and have landed in the trash. The increased prices for US imports to China caused a dramatic drop in sales in the People's Republic. And the increased prices for imports from China to America are making these products unaffordable for consumers in the United States.

From vacuum cleaners to food blenders, everything is almost 2.5 times more expensive than it was in March. As a result, many Chinese companies are no longer shipping goods to America at all. US companies, in turn, cannot fill this gap in a short time, so Americans are now faced with empty shelves or unaffordable products.

Since China possesses the world's most important reserves of rare earths, which are essential for the production of smartphones, refrigerators, and satellite technology, Beijing had the upper hand here as well. That's why Trump initially lifted the tariffs on these products, because otherwise the US economy would have faced unforeseeable difficulties. This, too, was a foreseeable defeat, and observers are wondering what scenario the US president had in mind that kept him believing he could defeat Beijing.

Donald Trump said that the punitive tariffs would now be reduced overall, not just for specific sectors, without committing to a specific number, but they would "not go to zero." Previously, his Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessent, called Trump's punitive tariffs "unsustainable." In Donald Trump's own words, he is now "a total loser," and Xi Jinping, his Chinese counterpart, is the winner.

China successfully gambled on waiting to see how the global economy would develop in response to Trump's trade policy. Even though Beijing had signaled that it remained open to talks, the country's communist leadership ruled out sending Xi Jinping into direct negotiations with Trump without any basis or basis for what America actually expects from China.

The US president, who approaches all political matters more like a bully than a diplomat, hoped to use his punitive tariffs to put pressure on China and ultimately bring it to its knees, with the calculation that he would then also subjugate all the other countries he had threatened with reviving his punitive tariffs after the expiration of his 90-day "grace period."

In the US president's mind, all the nations threatened with punitive tariffs were already meekly queuing ("ready to kiss my ass," as he put it in vulgar language) to sign a trade deal with him. Although Washington had begun talks with its partners in Asia, especially South Korea and Japan, it had not made public what was discussed and what concessions were being considered. To describe the start of negotiations as a "big win" is bold.

The People's Republic had already warned countries like Japan against falling into Trump's trap and concluding a new deal that would require them to harm China economically in return. But Tokyo would have absolutely no opportunity to do so, because the Japanese economy, like many others in the world, is now so closely linked to supply chains that run through China that decoupling the two countries is out of the question, even if they wanted to. Tokyo is under particular pressure because Japan is the first country with which the Trump administration entered into trade negotiations last week.

Experts say Japan has little to offer the US to boost sales of American products in the island nation. They point to the possibility of importing more rice from the US. Such a move would not reduce the trade deficit between the two countries, which stands at approximately $54.5 billion.

Would increased rice exports to Japan justify exuberant talk of a "big win"? Hardly, but Donald Trump currently has to sell even the smallest progress as a major victory to avoid being seen as a loser. All the rhetoric, however, does not change the fact that he has already lost the trade war with China, the feud with President Xi Jinping, after just a few weeks.
--------------


I am all for confronting Chinese trade practices and their cheating and manipulation, Chinese traders have had a lousy reputation throughout Asia since many, many centuries. But seeking the fight in the way Trump did, was both stupid and ridiculous. He does not even have a realistic awareness for his/America's own strengths - and weaknesses. Not to mention that of the others, and China.

Simply playing the barbar, standing with your legs wide apart, fists on your hips, and lying and yelling and shouting at and spitefully mocking everyone else is a bit of a stretch.

And stupid to try with modern China.

Wrong again, Marc. It''s the general consensus of our American Subsim members.

With regards to China, you are woefully misinformed. China has used it's military to try to bully everyone in it's general vicinity, especially in the South China Sea. China claims the vast majority of the area in spite of it's claims being rejected. An international tribunal in The Hague has invalidated China's claims.

China intentionally sends the constituent components to Mexican Cartels with which they manufacture Fentanyl and then smuggle into the U.S. Fentanyl has then been mixed with Heroin and Cocaine in varying and inconsistent ratio's, resulting in over dose deaths in the U.S.

China is a major player in providing material support to Russia in it's War with the Ukraine. This now includes sending troops as North Korea is also doing. The vast majority of our Subsim members support the Ukraine.

Chinese Students steal everything they can get their hands on in U.S Universities, especially, research. Intellectual Property and Patents mean nothing to China. Countries doing business in China have been required to turn over their source codes to China. China steals from Countries spanning Europe, Asia and the U.S through State sponsored hackers.

Quote: A letter sent to the universities, including Stanford and Carnegie Mellon, alleged that the Chinese government was embedding researchers in top American institutions to gain direct access to sensitive technologies.

https://apnews.com/article/china-us-...138e96709f0d7d

China is a gross polluter and it's own Country is a toxic wasteland. The air quality is very unhealthy there. Further, it was determined that Covid originated from the Wuhan Laboratories in China. We all know people that have died from Covid. It's apparent that China was experimenting with Biological research, most likely as part of engaging in biological Military weapons.

Chinese money and lust for Ivory and has resulted in the whole sale slaughter of Elephants in Africa. Recently, a Chinese man was apprehended in the U.S for smuggling protected Eastern Box Turtles from the U.S to different addresses in Hong Kong. It's obvious China has no respect for International norms, laws, regulations or the people in other Countries.

You and others may denigrate Trump, However, Trump is keenly aware of these and other Issues. I think we will see a long overdue decoupling of our economies. I also think Chinese Students should be removed from the U.S, wholesale. China has advocated for It's students and Why not. The students constantly steal and replicate sensitive research. It's long overdue that Institutions in the U.S and Europe recognize China for what it is.

Trump is doing what was asked of him, which is protect the U.S and it's citizens from China and others. If your Country prefers to ignore that and deal with China, that's your business.

Keep in mind, when you sleep with dogs, you get fleas.



https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinese...nal-companies/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...t/82502618007/

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-tribunal-says

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...mand-for-ivory

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Wrong again, Marc. It''s the general consensus of our American Subsim members.



With regards to China, you are woefully misinformed. China has used it's military to try to bully everyone in it's general vicinity, especially in the South China Sea. China claims the vast majority of the area in spite of it's claims being rejected. An international tribunal in The Hague has invalidated China's claims.


China intentionally sends the constituent components to Mexican Cartels with which they manufacture Fentanyl and then smuggle into the U.S. Fentanyl has then been mixed with Heroin and Cocaine in varying and inconsistent ratio's, resulting in over dose deaths in the U.S.


China is a major player in providing material support to Russia in it's War with the Ukraine. This now includes sending troops as North Korea is also doing. The vast majority of our Subsim members support the Ukraine.


Chinese Students steal everything they can get their hands on in U.S Universities, especially, research. Intellectual Property and Patents mean nothing to China. Countries doing business in China have been required to turn over their source codes to China. China steals from Countries spanning Europe, Asia and the U.S through State sponsored hackers.


Quote: A letter sent to the universities, including Stanford and Carnegie Mellon, alleged that the Chinese government was embedding researchers in top American institutions to gain direct access to sensitive technologies.



https://apnews.com/article/china-us-...138e96709f0d7d



China is a gross polluter and it's own Country is a toxic wasteland. The air quality is very unhealthy there. Further, it was determined that Covid originated from the Wuhan Laboratories in China. We all know people that have died from Covid. It's apparent that China was experimenting with Biological research, most likely as part of engaging in biological Military weapons.



Chinese money and lust for Ivory and has resulted in the whole sale slaughter of Elephants in Africa. Recently, a Chinese man was apprehended in the U.S for smuggling protected Eastern Box Turtles from the U.S to different addresses in Hong Kong. It's obvious China has no respect for International norms, laws, regulations or the people in other Countries.



You and others may denigrate Trump, However, Trump is keenly aware of these and other Issues. I think we will see a long overdue decoupling of our economies. I also think Chinese Students should be removed from the U.S, wholesale. China has advocated for It's students and Why not. The students constantly steal and replicate sensitive research. It's long overdue that Institutions in the U.S and Europe recognize China for what it is.



Trump is doing what was asked of him, which is protect the U.S and it's citizens from China. If your Country prefers to ignore that and deal with them, that's your business.



Keep in mind, when you sleep with dogs, you get fleas.



https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinese...nal-companies/



https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...t/82502618007/



https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-tribunal-says


https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...mand-for-ivory

But, but, but, but, but, but.....they sell cheap stuff. It's all good. Sheesh...