UK Politics Thread - Page 828

JU_88 · 02-02-20, 04:37 AM

Fair points Skybird,
I agree that the bigest flaw with any system of government or collectivisation, the larger it is the less people it truley represents under that blanket. Scotland and Catalunya should have the right to go it alone if they wish.
Buts its murky, As with Brexit its very much divided in both those places. There is never an easy way to reconcile that as there is no go between or compromise when it comes to breaking away, its all or nothing at all.

Whats worrying now is that 'tyranny of the majority' is a phrase being tossed around by the losers of western democracies, unfortunatley that's just reality of any democracy even if the government formed is a representative one (like a coalition) and the only alternative is tyranny of the minority which is ultimatley dictatorship.

In the case of brexit i think most who voted remain have come round to the idea that this is where we are going for now and that regretfully they must accept it as we can only go forwards in time and not back.
As for where the hardline remainers & Labour /Libdems chewed off their own leg; (and the U.S democrats seem to be heading for the same trap in 2020)
openess and tolerance are possitive and sensible values to hold, but if you take them to their radical extremes you end up worshiping the foriegner and resenting the national - you cannot forge a national identity out of the rejection of national identity, oxymoron.

Skybird · 02-02-20, 07:14 AM

I am the last to claim that the majority principle is the holy grail - it clearly is not, for it only makes sense if the electorate is qualified and educated. Voting campaigns before generla elections time and again show that the elctorate clearly is not qualified at all. Such a herd of cattle should not be given powers of any kind. I am in full with the criticism as voiced by Stanford politologist Jason brennan, whom I have repeatedly referred to. His diagnosis is 100% correct, like is Herrmann Hoppe's, I only have doubts about both men's recommended altenrative remedies. Brewnnan at least is honest enogh to admit that his alternative is so far a thought experiment whose validity still must be proven.

Meanwhile the EU already has started to conspire again against the UK, stirring the pot behind its back and showing an innocent face at the same time. I know why I meet this scum with such contempt.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland...itics-51342714

"We dont pull the cat's tail, we just hold it tight." Thats what they do, all the time, everywhere, and not just over Brexit. The EU can never be trusted. Never. In the end, it not even lives up to its own treaties and laws.

Catfish · 02-02-20, 07:23 AM

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...ction-channel/

MGR1 · 02-02-20, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

In 2014, the two major b ranches of the Scottish eco09nomy were oil andf finance sector.

----SNIP----

But again: independence as a nation you need to be able to afford. Dont expect others to pay your bills. Because then you are not dependent at all. THAT IS A NO-BRAINER, ISN'T IT...?

Sorry, Sky - had to do that rather than clog up the post!

As Ju_88 wrote, all very good points and all perfectly valid - but it just underlines the problem:

WHY is Scotland's economy so massively unbalanced? WHY the need for the Barnett formula subsidies?

I've posted this before but my own opinion is that the pro-UK side have NO interest in Scotland becoming a net contributer to the UK exchequer. If it was it would invalidate all their arguments that the Union is beneficial to Scotland - viewed on purely economic grounds it isn't fair to either Scotland or England. A Scotland that was a net-contributer would have as much need for the UK on economic grounds as England and thus would be more likely to vote for independence and hence a threat to their positions.

The Conservative commentator Henry Hill has posted a very good analysis here:

The state of the unionists

As for the SNP's pro-EU position - I have my own take.

Scottish political leaders sacrificed Scotland's status as a separate nation in 1707 for both personal and national economic advantage, why wouldn't the current set do so again?

Which "Empire" serves Scotland's interests best?

Mike.

Jimbuna · 02-02-20, 08:04 AM

Scotland's largest trade union has backed calls for a second independence referendum.

A meeting of Unison's Scottish council has voted in favour of indyref2 at a time to be determined by the Scottish Parliament.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-51340598

Jimbuna · 02-02-20, 08:06 AM

Former European Council president Donald Tusk says Brussels feels "empathy" towards an independent Scotland joining the European Union.

Nicola Sturgeon has said an independent Scotland would seek full EU membership.

When asked if this would be looked upon favourably, Mr Tusk said there would be enthusiasm but he warned the country would not be automatically accepted.

Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab warned the comments could encourage "separatist tendencies" in the EU.

They were "rather un-European and rather irresponsible," he added.

"I'm not sure European leaders, let alone here in the UK, would actually welcome that comment," he said.

Mr Tusk, who served as European Council president for five years until November last year, told the BBC's The Andrew Marr Show that he feels "very Scottish, especially after Brexit".

When asked about the prospect of an independent Scotland joining the EU, the Polish politician said he had to "respect the internal debate in the United Kingdom" and it was not his role to intervene.

But when pressed on the level of support in the EU towards an independent Scotland joining the union, he said: "Emotionally I have no doubt that everyone will be enthusiastic here in Brussels, and more generally in Europe.

"If you ask me about our emotions, you will witness I think always empathy."

However he warned that any future entry bid on the part of an independent Scotland would not be automatically accepted - "formalities" and treaty agreements would still need to be adhered to.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-51342714

MGR1 · 02-02-20, 11:39 AM

Interesting piece by Professor David Starkey:

The UK’s four nations can be reinvented and flourish

Although there's an interesting caveat at the end:

Quote:

But the results of the Brexit referendum and the recent general election suggests a more optimistic outcome. Perhaps that core Anglo-British belief in national self-government survives. Perhaps it can be the foundation, with or without Scotland, of a new, multi-national Britain/England, that, enriched with its immigrant talent, will forge its own unique way in the world, just as the old United Kingdom once did.

Bold mine.

The article also touched on what I think is a very good point: for the UK to survive, perhaps the best way would be to "kill" the four separate national identities. No English, no Scottish, no Welsh, no Northern Irish, only British. However that would entail a degree of cultural genocide that is very un-British.

Mike.

Skybird · 02-02-20, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Former European Council president Donald Tusk says Brussels feels "empathy" towards an independent Scotland joining the European Union.

Nicola Sturgeon has said an independent Scotland would seek full EU membership.

When asked if this would be looked upon favourably, Mr Tusk said there would be enthusiasm but he warned the country would not be automatically accepted.

Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab warned the comments could encourage "separatist tendencies" in the EU.

They were "rather un-European and rather irresponsible," he added.

"I'm not sure European leaders, let alone here in the UK, would actually welcome that comment," he said.

Mr Tusk, who served as European Council president for five years until November last year, told the BBC's The Andrew Marr Show that he feels "very Scottish, especially after Brexit".

When asked about the prospect of an independent Scotland joining the EU, the Polish politician said he had to "respect the internal debate in the United Kingdom" and it was not his role to intervene.

But when pressed on the level of support in the EU towards an independent Scotland joining the union, he said: "Emotionally I have no doubt that everyone will be enthusiastic here in Brussels, and more generally in Europe.

"If you ask me about our emotions, you will witness I think always empathy."

However he warned that any future entry bid on the part of an independent Scotland would not be automatically accepted - "formalities" and treaty agreements would still need to be adhered to.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-51342714

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...ostcount=12407

Skybird · 02-02-20, 12:10 PM

Meanwhile, the EU continues to deny the point of Brexit and what it really is about:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51345776

Quote:

Dominic Raab argued agreeing to stick strongly with EU regulations would "defeat the point of Brexit".
(...)
EU chiefs want the UK to continue to follow EU rules on standards and state subsidies - while accepting the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in any trade disputes.The PM is expected to say that he will accept no alignment and no jurisdiction of the European courts when talks start in March.
He is also preparing to say he would rule out relaxing rules on workers' rights, food hygiene standards and environmental protections.
(...)
Mr Raab said the UK would enter trade talks "with a spirit of goodwill" but added "the legislative alignment - it just ain't happening".

I think what the EU fears more than anything is that the high tax regimes by which the net payers finance the EU show could be undermined by a Britain challenging them on it with a low tax regime. But I hope right that is what Johnson will do. Super-Uschi's staff has threatened the world with raising penalty taxes for products imported by Europe that are not produced in accordance with the "Green Deal" madness. By this the EU wants to force the rest of the world to comply with the demands of that European hubris. But I just said it: it is hubris, and I want it to be shattered to pieces.

Jimbuna · 02-03-20, 07:28 AM

^ I'm of the opinion the EU is petrified of a competitor right on their doorstep.

Jimbuna · 02-03-20, 07:31 AM

Meanwhile, Operation Doom and Gloom gathers momentum.

Quote:

Hedgehogs, dragonflies and bees are among wildlife at risk due to big gaps in environmental protections following the UK’s departure from the EU, according to a new report.

Commissioned by The Wildlife Trusts, The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (RSPB) and WWF, the study claims the UK faces losing regulations preventing hedgerows being cut during the nesting season and vital buffer strips from being ploughed or sprayed with pesticides.

Other regulations currently based in EU law, which safeguard ponds and protect carbon-locking bare soils from draining or blowing away, could also be lost, according to the report by the Institute of European Environmental Policy (IEEP).
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexi...id=mailsignout

MGR1 · 02-03-20, 11:04 AM

A piece by Michelle Ballantyne MSP, Jackson Carlaw's competitor for leadership of the Scottish Conservatives:

Michelle Ballantyne: Why I’m standing to lead the Scottish Conservatives

She stood for the leadership position to prevent Carlaw being "coronated" as SCon Leader. If that had happened it would have undercut any attack on Sturgeon, after all she had her own "coronation" as SNP leader.

Unfortunately, unless anything dramatic happens, she's unlikely to beat Carlaw but hopefully her presence will give the SCon membership something to think about.

Many of the rank and file of the party membership in Scotland want devolution scrapped altogether, rather than think constructively as to how to make it work.

Mike.

Skybird · 02-03-20, 11:35 AM

A piece by Michael Sommer in the Swiss Schweizer Sonntagszeitung:

"
Singapore on the Thames - dawn of a new era

What some had never believed in has now come true: Great Britain is leaving the European Union, and it is probably the most significant historical event since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Europe, especially the EU, will have to reinvent itself. Little remains of the euphoria that struck our continent in 1989, namely the West and the East. The United States of Europe - because this goal seemed to be within reach at the beginning of the 1990s - did not happen so quickly. Business as usual still prevails.

Most politicians, journalists, and some business leaders are not aware of the scope of this brave British referendum. They assume that the EU just continues to exist, they think that the UK is primarily affected by its decision, they think that times have hardly changed - apart from the fact that there is something rumbling on the edges of the political spectrum, squeaks and rumbles. Barbarians crawl around and riot, climate youths skip school and talk cheekily, otherwise nothing new in the West. You are wrong. They overlook the dawn of a new era.

Nuclear power with an intact army

Great Britain is the second largest economy in Europe, at the same time recently the most important trading partner for the EU outside the confederation of states. The country is also a nuclear power and has one of the few serious, still ready-to-use armies. Without Great Britain, EU politicians know that any European attempt to emancipate itself from the United States in terms of security policy has the charm of a joke.

London is also one of the most important financial centers in the world. According to the Global Financial Centers Index, only New York is of greater importance, Frankfurt, Paris or Amsterdam, even Zurich, and a city outside the EU are far behind, is more important than the EU financial centers. Zurich in little Switzerland is in 6th place - ahead of Frankfurt in big Germany. Hardly any European company can get past London when it is looking for financing. After all, Great Britain has seven of the forty best universities in the world, while the EU has none, and Switzerland has two.

So if the EU Commission imagines that the negotiations with the British have led it from a position of strength, while the islanders must be happy that they want to do business with them at all, then they are wrong. The Commission should also not underestimate Boris Johnson. The British prime minister, whom one long laughed at as a clown, although one knew better, has just achieved a majority on a scale that none of the current heads of government in the EU will ever experience

Merkel, an exhausted ghost

The German Angela Merkel walks through the hallways of her office like an exhausted ghost, a chancellor who has long survived her political death; Emmanuel Macron, the French, will soon be replaced by Marine Le Pen, the right-wing populist, unless he quickly implements reforms like Napoleon Bonaparte's last. It looks bad.

Years of self-deception. What has the British been ridiculed for, and their democracy, one of the oldest in the world, declared dead, how great was the anticipation of the debacle that was supposed to threaten their economy: all wrong. After all, one or two journalists woke up. The Frankfurter Allgemeine writes: “The catastrophe prophets about the Brexit vote three and a half years ago that predicted an economic downturn were wrong. On the contrary: unemployment fell, a million new jobs were created. “It should get even better

One hears that "Singapore on the Thames" means the nightmare of the Eurocrats, that is, the idea that Britain will free itself from all EU regulations that have proven to be of little use to create wealth. The competition of the systems, we as Swiss know this only too well, the commissioners in Brussels shy away from the holy water like the devil. Nobody should notice how miserable they govern. Michel Barnier, the EU's chief negotiator, has just emphasized this: you can never allow London to indulge yourself in applying other, that is, more business-friendly, regulations. Like the Catholic Church, you can never leave the EU, even if you have left it.
"

----

What gets overlooked once again, is the excellently efficient data-collectors of the British intel services. Maybe the most efficient of their likes in Europe, before the French. But two day ago somebody at Brussel predicted fall and horror in case the British cannot easily access Europol for counter-terror anymore. I think, the bigger problem lies in Europol no longer beign able to adress British, if it gets that far. Again, the continent has more to lose here than the islanders.

The new proposals by Barnier show that reality denial still dominates in Brussels. He has just suffered a total defeat with his former negotiation style and tactic, but already acts again as if he were the dominant elephant in the room.

I agree with the author, me too has a bit underestimated Johnson. So far he does better than I expected.

Jimbuna · 02-03-20, 02:48 PM

^ I liked that, so much so I've tweaked it a little for posting elsewhere

Skybird · 02-03-20, 03:59 PM

Now this had me bursting in tears, laughing.

Headline in Die Zeit:

"Three pages from Boris Johnson, 33 pages from Michael Barnier".

Brussels still has not understood anything.

But we run jokes on the British still crying over their lost Empire...?

02-02-20, 04:37 AM	#12406
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,803 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Fair points Skybird, I agree that the bigest flaw with any system of government or collectivisation, the larger it is the less people it truley represents under that blanket. Scotland and Catalunya should have the right to go it alone if they wish. Buts its murky, As with Brexit its very much divided in both those places. There is never an easy way to reconcile that as there is no go between or compromise when it comes to breaking away, its all or nothing at all. Whats worrying now is that 'tyranny of the majority' is a phrase being tossed around by the losers of western democracies, unfortunatley that's just reality of any democracy even if the government formed is a representative one (like a coalition) and the only alternative is tyranny of the minority which is ultimatley dictatorship. In the case of brexit i think most who voted remain have come round to the idea that this is where we are going for now and that regretfully they must accept it as we can only go forwards in time and not back. As for where the hardline remainers & Labour /Libdems chewed off their own leg; (and the U.S democrats seem to be heading for the same trap in 2020) openess and tolerance are possitive and sensible values to hold, but if you take them to their radical extremes you end up worshiping the foriegner and resenting the national - you cannot forge a national identity out of the rejection of national identity, oxymoron. Last edited by JU_88; 02-02-20 at 05:43 AM.

02-02-20, 07:14 AM	#12407
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,654 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I am the last to claim that the majority principle is the holy grail - it clearly is not, for it only makes sense if the electorate is qualified and educated. Voting campaigns before generla elections time and again show that the elctorate clearly is not qualified at all. Such a herd of cattle should not be given powers of any kind. I am in full with the criticism as voiced by Stanford politologist Jason brennan, whom I have repeatedly referred to. His diagnosis is 100% correct, like is Herrmann Hoppe's, I only have doubts about both men's recommended altenrative remedies. Brewnnan at least is honest enogh to admit that his alternative is so far a thought experiment whose validity still must be proven. Meanwhile the EU already has started to conspire again against the UK, stirring the pot behind its back and showing an innocent face at the same time. I know why I meet this scum with such contempt. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland...itics-51342714 "We dont pull the cat's tail, we just hold it tight." Thats what they do, all the time, everywhere, and not just over Brexit. The EU can never be trusted. Never. In the end, it not even lives up to its own treaties and laws. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-02-20, 07:23 AM	#12408
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,768 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...ction-channel/ __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

02-02-20, 08:04 AM	#12410
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,621 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Scotland's largest trade union has backed calls for a second independence referendum. A meeting of Unison's Scottish council has voted in favour of indyref2 at a time to be determined by the Scottish Parliament. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-51340598 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

02-02-20, 08:06 AM	#12411
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,621 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Former European Council president Donald Tusk says Brussels feels "empathy" towards an independent Scotland joining the European Union. Nicola Sturgeon has said an independent Scotland would seek full EU membership. When asked if this would be looked upon favourably, Mr Tusk said there would be enthusiasm but he warned the country would not be automatically accepted. Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab warned the comments could encourage "separatist tendencies" in the EU. They were "rather un-European and rather irresponsible," he added. "I'm not sure European leaders, let alone here in the UK, would actually welcome that comment," he said. Mr Tusk, who served as European Council president for five years until November last year, told the BBC's The Andrew Marr Show that he feels "very Scottish, especially after Brexit". When asked about the prospect of an independent Scotland joining the EU, the Polish politician said he had to "respect the internal debate in the United Kingdom" and it was not his role to intervene. But when pressed on the level of support in the EU towards an independent Scotland joining the union, he said: "Emotionally I have no doubt that everyone will be enthusiastic here in Brussels, and more generally in Europe. "If you ask me about our emotions, you will witness I think always empathy." However he warned that any future entry bid on the part of an independent Scotland would not be automatically accepted - "formalities" and treaty agreements would still need to be adhered to. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-51342714 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

02-03-20, 07:28 AM	#12415
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,621 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	^ I'm of the opinion the EU is petrified of a competitor right on their doorstep. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

02-03-20, 11:04 AM	#12417
MGR1 Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, United Kingdom Posts: 980 Downloads: 252 Uploads: 0	A piece by Michelle Ballantyne MSP, Jackson Carlaw's competitor for leadership of the Scottish Conservatives: Michelle Ballantyne: Why I’m standing to lead the Scottish Conservatives She stood for the leadership position to prevent Carlaw being "coronated" as SCon Leader. If that had happened it would have undercut any attack on Sturgeon, after all she had her own "coronation" as SNP leader. Unfortunately, unless anything dramatic happens, she's unlikely to beat Carlaw but hopefully her presence will give the SCon membership something to think about. Many of the rank and file of the party membership in Scotland want devolution scrapped altogether, rather than think constructively as to how to make it work. Mike. __________________ "I am the battleship Jean Bart. This name originates from a certain 'respected' privateer... Yes? You want to know what privateers are? Hmph, they are pirates that rob openly under the banner of their country." Jean Bart from the mobile game Azur Lane.

02-03-20, 11:35 AM	#12418
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,654 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	A piece by Michael Sommer in the Swiss Schweizer Sonntagszeitung: " Singapore on the Thames - dawn of a new era What some had never believed in has now come true: Great Britain is leaving the European Union, and it is probably the most significant historical event since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Europe, especially the EU, will have to reinvent itself. Little remains of the euphoria that struck our continent in 1989, namely the West and the East. The United States of Europe - because this goal seemed to be within reach at the beginning of the 1990s - did not happen so quickly. Business as usual still prevails. Most politicians, journalists, and some business leaders are not aware of the scope of this brave British referendum. They assume that the EU just continues to exist, they think that the UK is primarily affected by its decision, they think that times have hardly changed - apart from the fact that there is something rumbling on the edges of the political spectrum, squeaks and rumbles. Barbarians crawl around and riot, climate youths skip school and talk cheekily, otherwise nothing new in the West. You are wrong. They overlook the dawn of a new era. Nuclear power with an intact army Great Britain is the second largest economy in Europe, at the same time recently the most important trading partner for the EU outside the confederation of states. The country is also a nuclear power and has one of the few serious, still ready-to-use armies. Without Great Britain, EU politicians know that any European attempt to emancipate itself from the United States in terms of security policy has the charm of a joke. London is also one of the most important financial centers in the world. According to the Global Financial Centers Index, only New York is of greater importance, Frankfurt, Paris or Amsterdam, even Zurich, and a city outside the EU are far behind, is more important than the EU financial centers. Zurich in little Switzerland is in 6th place - ahead of Frankfurt in big Germany. Hardly any European company can get past London when it is looking for financing. After all, Great Britain has seven of the forty best universities in the world, while the EU has none, and Switzerland has two. So if the EU Commission imagines that the negotiations with the British have led it from a position of strength, while the islanders must be happy that they want to do business with them at all, then they are wrong. The Commission should also not underestimate Boris Johnson. The British prime minister, whom one long laughed at as a clown, although one knew better, has just achieved a majority on a scale that none of the current heads of government in the EU will ever experience Merkel, an exhausted ghost The German Angela Merkel walks through the hallways of her office like an exhausted ghost, a chancellor who has long survived her political death; Emmanuel Macron, the French, will soon be replaced by Marine Le Pen, the right-wing populist, unless he quickly implements reforms like Napoleon Bonaparte's last. It looks bad. Years of self-deception. What has the British been ridiculed for, and their democracy, one of the oldest in the world, declared dead, how great was the anticipation of the debacle that was supposed to threaten their economy: all wrong. After all, one or two journalists woke up. The Frankfurter Allgemeine writes: “The catastrophe prophets about the Brexit vote three and a half years ago that predicted an economic downturn were wrong. On the contrary: unemployment fell, a million new jobs were created. “It should get even better One hears that "Singapore on the Thames" means the nightmare of the Eurocrats, that is, the idea that Britain will free itself from all EU regulations that have proven to be of little use to create wealth. The competition of the systems, we as Swiss know this only too well, the commissioners in Brussels shy away from the holy water like the devil. Nobody should notice how miserable they govern. Michel Barnier, the EU's chief negotiator, has just emphasized this: you can never allow London to indulge yourself in applying other, that is, more business-friendly, regulations. Like the Catholic Church, you can never leave the EU, even if you have left it. " ---- What gets overlooked once again, is the excellently efficient data-collectors of the British intel services. Maybe the most efficient of their likes in Europe, before the French. But two day ago somebody at Brussel predicted fall and horror in case the British cannot easily access Europol for counter-terror anymore. I think, the bigger problem lies in Europol no longer beign able to adress British, if it gets that far. Again, the continent has more to lose here than the islanders. The new proposals by Barnier show that reality denial still dominates in Brussels. He has just suffered a total defeat with his former negotiation style and tactic, but already acts again as if he were the dominant elephant in the room. I agree with the author, me too has a bit underestimated Johnson. So far he does better than I expected. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-03-20, 02:48 PM	#12419
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,621 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	^ I liked that, so much so I've tweaked it a little for posting elsewhere __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

02-03-20, 03:59 PM	#12420
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,654 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Now this had me bursting in tears, laughing. Headline in Die Zeit: "Three pages from Boris Johnson, 33 pages from Michael Barnier". Brussels still has not understood anything. But we run jokes on the British still crying over their lost Empire...? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.