Patch Suggestions (Monitored by Sonalysts) - Page 8

WolfyBrandon · 12-01-05, 09:13 PM

Hello everyone,

I have just started playing with the MH-60a and I think I have discoverd a little bug with it. It seems to be if you create a waypoint on the navigation map and then delete it and want to hover you cant.

Here is how to re-create it.
Go into a mission as the MH-60a. On the controls go to navigate and select the waypoint option. Place a waypoint somewhere on the map and begin to fly to it. Before you reach the waypoint, click on it and hit the delete key to delete the waypoint, then hit Shift 2 to go to dipping depth, and then hit 0 to hover. You will decend to dipping depth, but you wont hover. If they waypoint is still on the map, and you hit Shift 2 and then 0 it will go to dipping depth and will hover fine.

EDIT:
I have uploaded a video of the problem here.
http://files.filefront.com/MH_60_Hov.../fileinfo.html

Wolfy

Molon Labe · 12-08-05, 08:47 PM

I think its about time we added launch altitude and speed parameters for aircraft torpedoes and sonobuoys. Some people are taking advantage of the omission of these and are lobbing torps for miles. It's time to take this cheat away.

OneShot · 12-09-05, 07:41 AM

Along the way (to balance some) change the often mentioned parameters for SAMs. Like smaller Aquisition cone, time between (full) surface and when you can fire a missile, detectability of Masts on Radar if up for a prolonged time (more then 2 or 3 radar sweeps). You know all those funny things that let sub skippers play SAM launcher in wait for an airborne plattform.

As it is those (and yes, quite unrealistic) slingshooting of torps and sonobuoys is a viable mechanism to counter the thread of sub launched SAMs by simply staying out of range while still being able to detect and attack them.

Yes Bubbleheads, thats not fair - but thats life. Subs are not designated SAM Launchers. And unless it gets harder (in stock DW that is, Lw/Ami is quite different) to shoot down Airplanes and Helos from subs by using their undetecable periscope / ESM mast for detection and being able to instantly go to the Sail when the Sail has just breached the surface (even intermittenly in high seas) I definitly vote for keeping it as it is.

Molon Labe · 12-09-05, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneShot

Along the way (to balance some) change the often mentioned parameters for SAMs. Like smaller Aquisition cone, time between (full) surface and when you can fire a missile, detectability of Masts on Radar if up for a prolonged time (more then 2 or 3 radar sweeps). You know all those funny things that let sub skippers play SAM launcher in wait for an airborne plattform.

As it is those (and yes, quite unrealistic) slingshooting of torps and sonobuoys is a viable mechanism to counter the thread of sub launched SAMs by simply staying out of range while still being able to detect and attack them.

Yes Bubbleheads, thats not fair - but thats life. Subs are not designated SAM Launchers. And unless it gets harder (in stock DW that is, Lw/Ami is quite different) to shoot down Airplanes and Helos from subs by using their undetecable periscope / ESM mast for detection and being able to instantly go to the Sail when the Sail has just breached the surface (even intermittenly in high seas) I definitly vote for keeping it as it is.

The best thing to do to counterbalance the tactics problem is to make the tactic as unfeasible as it is in real life, not to add another realism problem on top of it, especially not a cheat as HUGE as lobbing torps for miles.

If the active sonar bug is fixed, the subs won't have to stay at PD to survive. Same for the ungodly passive detection ranges of 1.02/3Beta.

If flares actually worked, airdales would survive being shot at.

If Missiles were slaved to the IR camera, they could be fired faster

There's a right way to fix problems, and a wrong way. Letting people cheat is wrong. Period.

Capt Dave J. Harper · 07-17-06, 02:07 PM

u also gotta fix the kilo bug i was in a game and with in 5 seconds it seemed like the kilo launched a million torps and missles at invisable targets but sum how they hit my sub

drEaPer · 12-17-05, 08:32 AM

Suggestion: When entering sonar station, automatically mute music, when returning to another station re enable music.
SH3 does it, and its really cool. Atm I play DW witout music so I can hear the noise in sonar.

OneShot · 12-17-05, 09:00 AM

@Molon Labe ... thats why I said. Fix the unrealistic things, to discourage unrealistic tactics and make it more balanced. BUT more balanced for both sides. If they only fix for one side, it takes away from balance. As it is its unrealistic but in its own way balanced if you know all the tricks. And lobbing Torps is by no means cheating ... its exploiting the possibilities of the game. Otherwise having masts up that are undetectable, being able to instant fire SAMs while the sail is more under then above water and things like that are cheating. Be careful with words ...

Molon Labe · 12-17-05, 12:14 PM

It's a sliding scale, somethings are more blatant than others, and more importantly, some things can be done legitimately but simply don't have the disadvantages of doing so modeled. There is a valid reason to put a mast up; such cannot be said of throwing torps around 10,000ft in the air.

OneShot · 12-17-05, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

It's a sliding scale, somethings are more blatant than others, and more importantly, some things can be done legitimately but simply don't have the disadvantages of doing so modeled. There is a valid reason to put a mast up; such cannot be said of throwing torps around 10,000ft in the air.

So being invisible to Radar and IR carries no disadvantages ... certainly for the sub skippers ... thats about equal realism wise then sling shooting torps around from great heights. Anyway, we are getting Off Topic here. I think we both agree, that some things need to be modelled differently and as it seems more real life like. SCS certainly has gotten the point by now from the posts. Why not call it a day for the moment ?

Molon Labe · 12-19-05, 12:22 AM

CIWS:

You know, it really sucks when you want to put your CIWS on auto, but then it shoots at both incoming vampires, and SAMs coming from your own ships that are trying to shoot down the vamps... especially since if both a threat missile and a SAM are around, it always shoots at the SAM, and the vamp gets though. So, let's have a "threat axis" option for the CIWS. You assign a direction, and every incoming within say, 60-90 degress of that axis gets engaged, and incoming missiles from other directions are allowed to pass.

Furia · 12-19-05, 01:57 PM

There is no reason torps cannot be droped from such higer altitudes.
They have a retarding chute to stabilize them and basically they will enter the water the same speed droped from 1000 feet than from 10000.
Or you think a parachutist that drops from 10000 feet on free fall goes faster than one that does it from 5000?
Of course it is not realistic to do so, mostly because there is really no need to do so because nobody expects subs to use SAM as first defence everyday and so effectively.

Molon Labe · 12-19-05, 08:43 PM

Let's model the chutes then. =)

MaHuJa · 12-20-05, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Let's model the chutes then. =)

They are in, they're just not displayed in 3d. Ever noticed how the torps slow their fall just before entering the water?

There is the fact that they would probably enter rather vertically though.

MaHuJa · 12-20-05, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fandango

I thought about that but the point is that I have it "mirrored"...

Fandangos "problem" is that the narrowband spherical classification is slaved to the hull/TA sonars - essentially, the identificator works based on the composite data of all three sonars. Unfortunately there's no way to get the lines from all of them on the screen at the same time. If there are TA lines, but no spherical lines, it will base the spherical ID on the mirror direction by the TA lines.

I don't remember if this was merely undocumented or if the problem is not reading the manual, though.

goldorak · 12-20-05, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Let's model the chutes then. =)

No, Oneshot is correct the game has to be balanced even by using non real life tactics.
Either we resolve at the same time the "cheats" of the p-3 with the "cheats" of the subs or else nothing is done.
Right now the subs have certain "advantages/cheats" so does the p-3.
They compensate one against the other.

12-01-05, 09:13 PM	#1
WolfyBrandon Frogman Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: U-957: Patrol 05 In Progress... Posts: 306 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	Possible Bug Hello everyone, I have just started playing with the MH-60a and I think I have discoverd a little bug with it. It seems to be if you create a waypoint on the navigation map and then delete it and want to hover you cant. Here is how to re-create it. Go into a mission as the MH-60a. On the controls go to navigate and select the waypoint option. Place a waypoint somewhere on the map and begin to fly to it. Before you reach the waypoint, click on it and hit the delete key to delete the waypoint, then hit Shift 2 to go to dipping depth, and then hit 0 to hover. You will decend to dipping depth, but you wont hover. If they waypoint is still on the map, and you hit Shift 2 and then 0 it will go to dipping depth and will hover fine. EDIT: I have uploaded a video of the problem here. http://files.filefront.com/MH_60_Hov.../fileinfo.html Wolfy __________________ [Current JSGME Mods Used In My Game] "Dave, you will always be remembered! R.I.P." U-759

12-09-05, 07:41 AM	#3
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Along the way (to balance some) change the often mentioned parameters for SAMs. Like smaller Aquisition cone, time between (full) surface and when you can fire a missile, detectability of Masts on Radar if up for a prolonged time (more then 2 or 3 radar sweeps). You know all those funny things that let sub skippers play SAM launcher in wait for an airborne plattform. As it is those (and yes, quite unrealistic) slingshooting of torps and sonobuoys is a viable mechanism to counter the thread of sub launched SAMs by simply staying out of range while still being able to detect and attack them. Yes Bubbleheads, thats not fair - but thats life. Subs are not designated SAM Launchers. And unless it gets harder (in stock DW that is, Lw/Ami is quite different) to shoot down Airplanes and Helos from subs by using their undetecable periscope / ESM mast for detection and being able to instantly go to the Sail when the Sail has just breached the surface (even intermittenly in high seas) I definitly vote for keeping it as it is. __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!

12-17-05, 09:00 AM	#7
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	@Molon Labe ... thats why I said. Fix the unrealistic things, to discourage unrealistic tactics and make it more balanced. BUT more balanced for both sides. If they only fix for one side, it takes away from balance. As it is its unrealistic but in its own way balanced if you know all the tricks. And lobbing Torps is by no means cheating ... its exploiting the possibilities of the game. Otherwise having masts up that are undetectable, being able to instant fire SAMs while the sail is more under then above water and things like that are cheating. Be careful with words ... __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!

12-08-05, 08:47 PM	#2
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	I think its about time we added launch altitude and speed parameters for aircraft torpedoes and sonobuoys. Some people are taking advantage of the omission of these and are lobbing torps for miles. It's time to take this cheat away.

07-17-06, 02:07 PM	#5
Capt Dave J. Harper Watch Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 23 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	u also gotta fix the kilo bug i was in a game and with in 5 seconds it seemed like the kilo launched a million torps and missles at invisable targets but sum how they hit my sub

12-17-05, 08:32 AM	#6
drEaPer Navy Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 176 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Suggestion: When entering sonar station, automatically mute music, when returning to another station re enable music. SH3 does it, and its really cool. Atm I play DW witout music so I can hear the noise in sonar.

12-17-05, 12:14 PM	#8
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	It's a sliding scale, somethings are more blatant than others, and more importantly, some things can be done legitimately but simply don't have the disadvantages of doing so modeled. There is a valid reason to put a mast up; such cannot be said of throwing torps around 10,000ft in the air.

12-19-05, 12:22 AM	#10
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	CIWS: You know, it really sucks when you want to put your CIWS on auto, but then it shoots at both incoming vampires, and SAMs coming from your own ships that are trying to shoot down the vamps... especially since if both a threat missile and a SAM are around, it always shoots at the SAM, and the vamp gets though. So, let's have a "threat axis" option for the CIWS. You assign a direction, and every incoming within say, 60-90 degress of that axis gets engaged, and incoming missiles from other directions are allowed to pass.

12-19-05, 01:57 PM	#11
Furia Ensign Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 224 Downloads: 95 Uploads: 0	There is no reason torps cannot be droped from such higer altitudes. They have a retarding chute to stabilize them and basically they will enter the water the same speed droped from 1000 feet than from 10000. Or you think a parachutist that drops from 10000 feet on free fall goes faster than one that does it from 5000? Of course it is not realistic to do so, mostly because there is really no need to do so because nobody expects subs to use SAM as first defence everyday and so effectively.

12-19-05, 08:43 PM	#12
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Let's model the chutes then. =)