The UN Will Decide If America Is Racist

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

@ Stealth Hunter: My only point is that British claims are as valid as anyone's, since, as the great British scientist Isaac Newton said, "If I have seen farther than others, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants." I will agree that if they want to lay sole claim to any of them, they're full of hot air. But that's true of just about anybody. The Wrights made the first practical airplane, but their version was ultimately a dead end. Glenn Curtiss is the true father of American aviation. There's always somebody somewhere who is willing to pick up where others left off.

I can respect that conclusion.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by Cohaagen

I am rubber, you are glue, Guybrush.

That pig-shaped bush frightens and confuses me.

[Cohaagen]

6000 tonnes dumped over 30 years works out at about half a tonne a day average. Not a great deal, except when taken cumulatively.

Housing around the loch is sparse. One side has a few houses, the other has a small housing estate - which housed navy personnel and their families.

Doesn't really seem much point going on, I agree, since you are entirely incapable of grasping the very simple fact that dumping toxic waste, any kind of waste, in a host country is generally considered a Bad Thing and something of an insult. First you deny that the USN bears any responsibility then, incredibly, you try and shift the blame onto the local residents, though you have yet to provide any evidence of complicity or even foreknowledge.

But it's not just those dang sneaky natives at the Holy Loch, there's the irreperable damage to archaeological sites in Iraq (the ruins of Babylon in particular), dumping of toxic chemicals in Germany causing contamination of water tables, the South Korean bases so filthy even the Korean government doesn't want them back (dumping formaldehyde into rivers? Medals all round...), the truly appalling state of bases in the Phillipines and Panama, etc, etc. The US military sure does have to deal with some sneaky folks around the world who don't keep an eagle eye on their local American bases.

Heck, maybe if the Vietnamese had been a bit more on the ball they wouldn't have so many congenital deformities from all that Agent Orange?

My original point was about how US governments tend to pick and choose which aspects of international agreements suit them and ignore the rest, likewise the UN, and remain totally unaccountable with regards to their transgressions. All you've done is reinforce this view of Americans as arrogant, hypersensitive flag-suckers.

[bradclark1]

Doesn't really seem much point going on, I agree, since you are entirely incapable of grasping the very simple fact that dumping toxic waste, any kind of waste, in a host country is generally considered a Bad Thing and something of an insult. First you deny that the USN bears any responsibility then, incredibly, you try and shift the blame onto the local residents, though you have yet to provide any evidence of complicity or even foreknowledge.

Oh let me see here. Lets scroll back a little to jar your memory a little shall we:

"Yes the navy was wrong doing/allowing it"
"I'm not defending. I'm putting the blame where it belongs, on both sides."
"Yes the United States Navy was the main culprit and nobody can deny that"
"there is enough blame to go around due to action or inaction"
"If I were a judge I would say it was an 80/20 split."

Saying the locals bear 20% responsibility is not shifting blame, it's putting it where it belongs. You have yet to come up with a logical excuse of how 6000 tons can be dumped with the locals being none the wiser.

there's the irreperable damage to archaeological sites in Iraq (the ruins of Babylon in particular)

Coalition forces crushed some paving stones with tanks (oh dear) and filled sandbags with precious archaeological fragments(normally thats called dirt). Yes thats some irreparable damage all right. How dare military operations cause so much destruction. Notice there is no mention of whose armed forces were there? Seeing as they were under Police command I kind of doubt they were American forces but rather Iraqi forces.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4177577.stm
They have a nice link there however to a story about looted artefact's being found in London though.

You'd have to be more specific about Germany and contamination of water tables. If I stood in my front yard and tipped a half of cup of oil on the ground I've contaminated the water table. If I shot a bullet into the ground I've dumped toxic materials in the ground. Having served a total of nine years at different bases in Germany I can probably bet your life that that is the type of contamination we are talking about. We are very eco-friendly in Germany and the Germans make sure we are. Unless you can quote specifics I would have to think there is a little hubris in the air.
Lets look at Korea. "Oil from the Yongsan 8th garrison’s base has contaminated the soil and water." Yongsan is the main depot for all armed forces in Korea. All those storage tanks, I'm sure there is some contamination. Have you visited any petroleum store facilities in the UK? I'm sure you will find some contamination. What else? "In May 1998, a ruptured pipeline at the Mt. Rackun military base polluted a large section of a South Korean forest conservancy area."
Not much to prevent that from happening. It was cleaned up.
I'll stop there as I can only come to the conclusion that you are trying to make mountains out of speed bumps. You'll have to find some other subject to defend the world against the evil empire over as you've fallen flat on your face here.

My original point was about how US governments tend to pick and choose which aspects of international agreements suit them and ignore the rest,

What part of "you are responsible for base clean up" don't you understand? Tough, I know but thats the international agreement. You just have to "suck it up" as they say. Just trying to project the image as the arrogant American with that statement you understand.

All you've done is reinforce this view of Americans as arrogant, hypersensitive flag-suckers.

I covered the arrogant in the sentence above. I'm not sure what I've been hypersensitive about and I don't know what a flag-sucker is so I can't really respond.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Come on guys, lets ease up here, please