Next SH.....as WE want it.

[kv29]

I really hope UBISOFT will listen, and listen carefully about many thing we expect to see in the next installment, things that are important to us, the people who will continue to support this series....

care to take a little time and dream with me?... dream on then...

- ALL SIDES & WAR THEATERS: german, american and japanese sides to play. All subs, all seas.

- REAL NAVIGATION: no more GPS maps that magically shows your sub position. we need real tools to calculate our position (sextant, another clock, and true stars).

- MORE ACCURATE PHYSIC: no more hitpoints please, we want to see a ship sink as it should be (pay attention to wernersobe work!). No more "flying" subs either please.

- REAL GUNS: yes, you know what Im talking about, no stabilized guns! (DG or AA) and full dg crew animations (gun loading & shells handling)

- BETTER ENVIROMENT: fully 3d rendered clouds, more stars, better storms, no jelly water :p

- NO BULLETPROOF CREW: yes, we want to see dead people!

- FULL SUBS: the ability to walk (yes, walk) between all compartments. and of course, we would like to get more of them.


... anything else? is up to you now.

[The WosMan]

I can't help but think how awesome a game with graphics and an entire world mapped like Silent Hunter merged with Dangerous Waters or Sub Command. Start off in your LA/Seawold/VA class sub at a US naval base and steam under nuclear power on missions. I don't care if they have to create fictional situations........it would be fun if designed right. Throw us in the Persian Gulf to take on the Iranian diesel sub menace. Track and sink N. Korean ships carrying nuclear materials to Libya or Syria. Imagine having the little SH event window following 12 tomahawk cruise missiles headed for Hugo's palace. It would be fun.

[Rockin Robbins]

It's a good goal for the next generation of computers, or maybe 10 years down the road. It wouldn't be possible now, as we are stretching the capabilities of all but high-end systems. In order to produce a profit, and selling video games has to be conducted as a business with all the slimey compromises that implies, a game has to be runnable on a large number of available machines.

Ubi obviously had to dispense with some of the interactive goodies of SH3 to make SH4 playable on enough machines to give it a chance to be profitable. This will not always be true.

Compare SH4 to Silent Service II. That is how SH4 will compare to the next generation of subsims. However, to finance the next generation we have to be willing to pay for this one. And this one is pretty good. I'm having more fun than I should be allowed to have, thanks in part to the descendent of your real deck gun.

[Ducimus]

I want to be able to control each engine seperatly. If i want to put all 4 on the line, let me do it. If i want to put 3 on the charge and 1 on the line, let me do it.

I want seperate propeller control. If i want ahead full on the port propeller, and all back full on the starbard propeller, let me do it.

I also want full throttle and rheostate control. If i want to push the engines or E Motors to 105%- 110% of their maxmum, let me do it.

I want full control on the dive planes. If i want as few as 5 degrees down on the planes, or 25 degrees down on the planes, let me distinguish which.

I want more control of my boyancy. I want to be able to control things like the saftey tank and negative tank. Not to mention just how fast the main ballast tank floods. Trim tanks would be nice too, but i woudlnt ask for THAT much.

[CDR Resser]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I want to be able to control each engine seperatly. If i want to put all 4 on the line, let me do it. If i want to put 3 on the charge and 1 on the line, let me do it.

I want seperate propeller control. If i want ahead full on the port propeller, and all back full on the starbard propeller, let me do it.

I also want full throttle and rheostate control. If i want to push the engines or E Motors to 105%- 110% of their maxmum, let me do it.

I want full control on the dive planes. If i want as few as 5 degrees down on the planes, or 25 degrees down on the planes, let me distinguish which.

I want more control of my boyancy. I want to be able to control things like the saftey tank and negative tank. Not to mention just how fast the main ballast tank floods. Trim tanks would be nice too, but i woudlnt ask for THAT much.

These are huge points. Reading everything that is available, these items are critical to controlling and maneuvering the submarine, both in and outside the harbor. Determining the number of engines on charge and propulsion is critical to determining the endurance of the submarine.
Independent propeller control affects the maneuverability of the ship.
Ballast control is critical. What is the default bouyancy state in the game. Is safety flooded as it ordinarily would. Is negative ever "blown to the mark". Are daily trim dives needed to correct compensation for stores used. Is there a stability penalty or decrease in diving performance for not doing trim dives.
Many times captains asked their engineers to push their diesels and motors beyond their specs to catch a ship.
All of these would add much to the immersion factor of the game.

Respectfully Submitted;
CDR Resser

[Penta]

Um...playability, guys. You lose a lot of people if SH becomes the Falcon 4 of sub sims, needing a 600pg manual.

[LobsterBoy]

I would like to see more features that force you, as the CO, to make decisions. I'd like to see weather affect decisions (seeing some of Kriller2's work on the new PE2 screenshots is amazing, especially the fog). The engine and shaft separation that Ducimus mentioned would give the CO many more options on how to run the boat. Imagine random failures in an engine and using three to balance your boat's needs. Do you go back to base? What about increased noise from your boat if you've taken damage? What about wounded crew that may only survive if you return to base in a timely manner?

For my money it's all about the decisions

[Ducimus]

The stuff im asking for isn't really that hardcore and can be simplified.

I want to be able to control each engine seperatly. If i want to put all 4 on the line, let me do it. If i want to put 3 on the charge and 1 on the line, let me do it.

This could be accomplished by a simple Dial Labeled "Battery recharge, with a 4 position switch. 1 / 1-2 / 1-2-3 / OFF. The more engines i put on the battery recharge, the faster its done, but the slower i go.

I want seperate propeller control. If i want ahead full on the port propeller, and all back full on the starbard propeller, let me do it.

Take your current engine telegraph, and duplicate it, assign each one to port or starboard. A simple Lock on it to control both at once, or unlock them and click on each telegraph as you like.

I also want full throttle and rheostate control. If i want to push the engines or E Motors to 105%- 110% of their maxmum, let me do it.

A simple dial can do this quite nicely. All you really need to do is add in a telegraph setting that is "beyond flank" that puts the load at 105% or 110%. The trick in this, is coding in a function that makes doing this risky for the increase in speed.

I want full control on the dive planes. If i want as few as 5 degrees down on the planes, or 25 degrees down on the planes, let me distinguish which.

This could be simplified with three dive planes settings.
- dive planes set to shallow dive
- dive planes set to normal dive
- dive planes set to maximum dive

The overall point here is to give the player more control over the up and down angle of the sub.

I want more control of my boyancy. I want to be able to control things like the saftey tank and negative tank. Not to mention just how fast the main ballast tank floods. Trim tanks would be nice too, but i woudlnt ask for THAT much.

Trim tanks would be asking too much. Saftey and negative tanks, no. I think we need those. Having these would allow you to reduce your draft and gain an increase surface speed for a sacrafice of a slower dive time as a result. OR, a deeper draft, slower speed, faster dive time. Depending if the tanks are flooded or blow dry.


All of the above would greatly add to immersion.

Edit: BUt i would give up All of the above.. IF.....

THE GAME ACUTALLY USED COMPRESSED AIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In both SH3, and SH4, compressed air is a total non factor.

Want to surface? NOOO problem, Compressed air isnt used to blow tanks dry, you just come up when you want.

Want to launch umpteen torpedos?! Noooooo problem, shoot as many as you like, the tubes are magic, and no compressed air is involved when firing torpedos.

But i degress one point, if the game does use compressed air, the usage ratio is so abysmally low, as to have totally negated the point for coding it into the sim in the first place. (my apologies if this is sounding harsh).

[maerean_m]

- ALL SIDES & WAR THEATERS: german, american and japanese sides to play. All subs, all seas.
* Can be done but it will take a lot of time and will cost a lot. I preffer doing one or two sides and allow for completely new sides to be added later.

- REAL NAVIGATION: no more GPS maps that magically shows your sub position. we need real tools to calculate our position (sextant, another clock, and true stars).
* Nice and not so hard to do
* "GPS maps" must exist for low realism settings.

- MORE ACCURATE PHYSIC: no more hitpoints please, we want to see a ship sink as it should be (pay attention to wernersobe work!). No more "flying" subs either please.
* Hit points and physics are not the same thing, but I see what you mean.

- REAL GUNS: yes, you know what Im talking about, no stabilized guns! (DG or AA) and full dg crew animations (gun loading & shells handling)
* stabilized views must exist for lower realism settings.
* why not?

- BETTER ENVIROMENT: fully 3d rendered clouds, more stars, better storms, no jelly water :p
* very computational intensive (the water), without adding something to the gameplay.

- NO BULLETPROOF CREW: yes, we want to see dead people!
* dead people were not implemented because of the age rating of the game

- FULL SUBS: the ability to walk (yes, walk) between all compartments. and of course, we would like to get more of them.
* nice to have and maybe there is gameplay in that too

[Blood_splat]

I'd also would like to see internal damage like flooding and broken equipment, fires with smoke all over.

I remember playing B17 II and having to order a crew member to put out a fire. Damn that game was ahead of its time.

[Rockin Robbins]

Everybody has great suggestions, but have patience. All these things will come with time. In the meantime, we should enjoy what we have, which is darned great!

I don't see any problems with all the details, so long as there is a heirarchy of options to let you phase in the use of real navigation, engine options, ballast tank management, fuel tank management, sonars individually accessable and useable (there were at least 3 on American subs), radar realism, radio coding and decoding, MoBo or something very like it should be incorporated into the game for realistic plotting.

But these need to be options that don't lock the casual player out of the game. If you don't have fun from the first startup of the game, it will sit on the shelf. Realism doesn't have to be at the expense of playability.

And finally, actual schools where you learn all this stuff in the game with an instructor in real life training situations.

Folks, you're looking a minimum of five years before anything like this is possible. You're looking at ten years before it gets installed on a single user computer. It will foster a whole new generation of complainers just as bad as this one.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Blood_splat

I remember playing B17 II and having to order a crew member to put out a fire. Damn that game was ahead of its time.

Great game! Too bad about all the bugs and stability problems it had/has. But really gave you the 'I'm there' immersion.

[Navarre]

An AAA graphics engine (if the game is again marketed as a AAA game), that deserves the triple A.
meaning:
- Light sources behind non-transparent objects should not be this visible through these objects
- shadow rendering as in other AAA graphic engines
- no longer transparent sailors due to incorrect environment/shaders development

[Sonarman]

I and many others, judging by my recent Subsim poll ,its counterpart on the Ubi Forum & the huge populartity of the SHIII schnellboot mod, I suspect would actually prefer to have a surface command game next time in the style of "Destroyer Command" or the great old Microprose title "Task Force 1942".

If the devs/ Ubisoft ever think about going down that road they should check out this fantastic 9 page article from simHQ, written by a former naval officer about the strengths and weaknesses of the original "Destroyer Command" game and his thoughts on what would a good sequel would contain.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by maerean_m

- NO BULLETPROOF CREW: yes, we want to see dead people!
* dead people were not implemented because of the age rating of the game

That's good to know, Sir.
Certainly not all of us want to see dead people in game... SH is not Unreal Tournament.
Don't know about the others, but I take the SH serie to heart... And knowing that a member of the crew is agonizing onboard would be hard to handle.
I strongly refuse to see this in SH later.