[REL] Water Stream for Uboats!(Updated:April 9, 2008)

[CB..]

thanks Rubini
a true work of art...it looks very convincing indeed

[ichso]

I appreciate this mod very very much, don't get me wrong. But am I really the only one who thinks that the SH4 effect looks still a little bit better ?

For compairison:


I like it a little bit better that the effect looks less flat there and that it's also a bit more variable.
Sometimes water comes out here, sometimes there. But not out of all openings all the time.
Just for a little bit constructive criticism ^^.

Originally Posted by rascal101

Never thought I'd see the day when I thought SH3 graphics were starting to leave behind SH4, todays the day!

Cant wait to see this added to all subs in SH3, what brilliant work, thank you very much

R

This isn't true. SH4 has still better 3D Models of the submarines the lighting looks more sophisticated and the whole refraction thing, that you can see the submarine when submerged and see it's bottom while surfaced are good examples for what SH3 simply lacks compared to it's successor.

[Pascal]

Clever Mod - where holes stay darker as they must be. About water line it's right type VII looks actually too much high on the sea, so very curious to see the new water line

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by ichso

I appreciate this mod very very much, don't get me wrong. But am I really the only one who thinks that the SH4 effect looks still a little bit better ?

For compairison:


I like it a little bit better that the effect looks less flat there and that it's also a bit more variable.
Sometimes water comes out here, sometimes there. But not out of all openings all the time.
Just for a little bit constructive criticism ^^.

This isn't true. SH4 has still better 3D Models of the submarines the lighting looks more sophisticated and the whole refraction thing, that you can see the submarine when submerged and see it's bottom while surfaced are good examples for what SH3 simply lacks compared to it's successor.

Thanks by the comment mate!

The main problem with Sh4 effect on the matter is that is seems always as a water jet...although when look at distance and considering all the new ligh&reflection the overall conjunct is good, but faraway from the RL behaviour (just look at a stationary uboat on Sh4 or even in a more close look to water jet stream). The unique thing that is really better is that Sh4 have a new controller (what is impossible to port to Sh3) that randomize a bit the water stream with an on/off trigger. Anyway is always just a mod that can be enable/disable with JSGME.

I also think that anything that mess with our uboats is a bit risk because you will see that thing all the time in your patrol...so you really need to like it or just don't use it.

I also didn't used that inertia speed effect (the water stream will "incline" with the uboat velocity) because the overall result isn't much good in uboats in my opinion (it's all or nothing type of thing - isn't possible to adjust this effect). Anyway, do you know if the new SH4 Uboat Mission expansion have these water stream on the uboats?? This is really a good question...if so, can someone provide an youtube video to we take a look?:hmm:

[CB..]

IMO what tends to happen with PC game graphics is that in order to emphasise an effect it is made more pronounced and noticable...(glamourous if you like?)
not a bad thing given the limitations of older games and graphics engines..but these days with very powerfull graphic engines the more realistic even mundane depiction of some effects is a better option...toned down subtle effects work best when taken into the whole picture.....saving the dramatic effects for well dramatic events! contrast is the better part of graphics..if everything is at maximum volume then it all just blurs into one (it's easy to start believeing that what you see in a game is actualy how it should be...it's the same with movies etc etc..and possibly one of the dangers of recreating historical events in the media)
must admit i was hugely impressed with Rub's effects.it would have been easy to have overblown the whole thing...making the thing look like fire hoses squirting water out the vents etc...instead it looks like what it is supposed to be ,nothing more nothing less
and that degree of subtely is not easy to reproduce


just wish that the devs had given us a hugely complex and dynamic skyscape and weather set up....as sunsets and the ever changing cloud scape are just about the single most awesome dramatic eye candy/mind candy we are ever likely to experience first hand in real life....you can be as dramatic as possible there in game graphics and still pale in comparison to the real thing...it's a real shame they left the game with 2 cloud textures (well 2 and a half) when flightsims have surpassed this back in the 90's)
take a look out the window every ten minutes or so...the sky scape is constantly changing and evolving....everytime i surface i want to be confronted by an entirely dynamic and beautifull sky scape..then i would never leave my PC at all LOL.(which would be mildly ironic to say the least)...art for art's sake keep it coming!

[ichso]

@Rubini: You have tested it through and I believe you
I also never played SH4, just watched some videos of it. The effect you made looks really good and I will definitely use it. I don't care too much for realism there either in that matter.

@CB: You're right. As I never having played SH4 I cannot tell whether the effects are used too extensively there. In a 10min video the graphic looks phantastic but I think one would get used to it quite quickly and then wouldn't notice it that much anymore.
And too much of good things can be worse then less of them, that's right

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by ichso

I appreciate this mod very very much, don't get me wrong. But am I really the only one who thinks that the SH4 effect looks still a little bit better ?

I like it a little bit better that the effect looks less flat there and that it's also a bit more variable.
Sometimes water comes out here, sometimes there. But not out of all openings all the time.

I like Rubini's version better. The area between the outer hull and the pressure hull is open. If you walk on the deck and look down between the wood planks you will actually see water beneath your feed. What this means is that if part of the boat dips under the water when it comes back up the water will indeed flow out of all the holes. The reason it doesn't in real life is that the sea is moving, so only a few holes get washed over at one time, and only a few holes drain water at one time, unless the boat has just surfaced.

Originally Posted by Rubini

The main problem with Sh4 effect on the matter is that is seems always as a water jet...

Very true. The water isn't being pumped out, it's just draining. It should be a flat sheet that spreads downward.

I also didn't used that inertia affect (the water stream will incline with the uboat) speed because the overall result isn't much good in uboats in my opinion.

Again, I agree. Unless the boat is accelerating very rapidly the water should run straight down the sides, not slope aft.

Anyway, do you know if the new SH4 Uboat Mission expansion have these water stream on the uboats??

Yes they do. I can't even play it, so I can't show a video, but here is a screenshot that AVGWarhawk posted on the SH4 add-on screenshot thread:

[Adriatico]

Finally had a chance to try it...

I like this mod Rubini , but:

It should be some 15-20% more transparent, if possible within SH3 engine... If not make it some 15% darker, just a drop of grey...

It's a bit over-emphasized, slighly grey or transparent would look more natural

Just my impression, hopefully constructive...

Pls, try it... at least by yourself.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Yes they do. I can't even play it, so I can't show a video, but here is a screenshot that AVGWarhawk posted on the SH4 add-on screenshot thread:

WOW ! IMO, our Sh3 typde IxD2 water stream effect is really much better than the SH4 one! Thanks by the pic SS!

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes, yours is nice. The Sh4 seem tubular in appearance. Some of the enviro mods took care of that issue. That pic is stock out of the box. Just need that polish with a fine shammy like SH3 has received. Nice work Rubini

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Adriatico

Finally had a chance to try it...

I like this mod Rubini , but:

It should be some 15-20% more transparent, if possible within SH3 engine... If not make it some 15% darker, just a drop of grey...

It's a bit over-emphasized, slighly grey or transparent would look more natural

Just my impression, hopefully constructive...

Pls, try it... at least by yourself.

Hi Adriatico,

Thankls by post feedbacks&suggestions.

I guess that you wish it more like water, no?
It's already more transparent than the original Sh4 settings (from 0,5 to 0,2). Anyhow I already tried it yet more transparent (0,1 or even 0,05) but I didn't liked the overall result, then I switch back to 0,2. What I'm testing since today at morning is to make it a bit major (only a bit) when hits the water...the effect is looking good. Let's see.

About make it more grey, well the texture is on the tex folder called water_spray.tga. Can you try it to help me and post your impressions? (I have a lot of others small things to do now and also needs to make all the others uboats, etc).

Also will be good with someone skilled in textures could make some experiments with a more natural water look one. It's just one small texture to work on!

[Adriatico]

Always Maestro,

Glad to document my suggestion:

I decreased .tga to 80% of original opacity (+20% transparent) and it looks simlpy gorgeous;



Even more on a dark side of u-boat;



Keep in mind that your test mission is a windy one... in more calm conditions, water would not fall down from "wholes", but rather slide, pour dawn the side of u-boat...

My friendly, but strong suggestion, is to decrease the "speed" of falling water by 10%... it would look better in all "wave states"

Pls, take your time...
Looking forward to your opinion after 24 hours...

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Adriatico

Always Maestro,

Glad to document my suggestion:

I decreased .tga to 80% of original opacity (+20% transparent) and it looks simlpy gorgeous;

Even more on a dark side of u-boat;

Keep in mind that your test mission is a windy one... in more calm conditions, water would not fall down from "wholes", but rather slide, pour dawn the side of u-boat...

My friendly, but strong suggestion, is to decrease the "speed" of falling water by 10%... it would look better in all "wave states"

Pls, take your time...
Looking forward to your opinion after 24 hours...

This is the best moment to me to read and post replies on the forum. So, not a problem.

I'm happy that you have found a better adjust for your taste just messing with the texture, what is the more easiest and recommended way.

I in truth, for my taste, yet like more as I first set it. But i will add a more lighter transparent texture as an option on the next releases...think about all the others uboats...

About the velocity, well i will wait more feedbacks to we have a concensus on this and others details that probably will pop up yet. I don't know if you know how to use the S3D...but if so then you can adjust the velocity for your taste too (44 water particles on the .dat). Also is possible to make the water stream have the colour of the uboat wake (as it is now) or the environmental one ( like clouds I guess) what is also a good setting to play with.

Edited: i forgotten to say that obviously i know about the calm&heavy seas issue and how it affect this effect in game and in RL. But due Sh3 limitations we need a compromise as always with any mod. Anyway IMHO, the effect is already the best possible for this issue, i.e., you have only a little water stream when in calm seas, much better, for example than in Sh4 where we have water jets even in calm seas.

[Einsman]

SCORE

Water Stream for Type IXD2 by Rubini in SH3 = 8

Water Stream for type IXD2 by Ubisoft in SH4 = 3

[Adriatico]

Fair enough Maestro,

Just disregard SH4 in this thread, I start your test mission and... see what I see, feel what I feel...

It could be great idea to release a soft mode with:
- more transparent texture
- less speedy water

...at least for VIIc, being smaller u-boat, all this issues would be even more visible

It seems to be a "piece of cake" to You so... Why not you give sailors a choice... to suite their "reality feeling"... either Niagara version or Softcore one...?

Take your time, maestro.