Upcoming WW2 Sub Movie "USS Seaviper" - Page 8

bertle · 04-26-08, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAdmiral

I sure hope this movie has some action instead of the heavy plot dialog that
hollywood seems to want to include in most movies today. Good example is
"Pearl Harbor", a 3 hour spectacular that in my opinion was a very good 1 hour
movie !! That 1 hour was the last hour of the film. The first 2 hrs. was garbage.

JIM

Oh goodness

Accuse Hollywood of many things but never acuse it of having too much heavy plot. You do realise your stance is basically the opposite of everyone else tired of what comes out of there? Pearl Harbour's problem wasn't "heavy plot", it was just meaningless fluff which you seem to be confusing with plot. Plot is generally engaging even when there is little action. Most people did not fall asleep during the lord of the rings trilogy, even in the bits without fighting. This is because there was plot.

Plot is rarer than antimatter, do not speak ill of it lest it be lost forever.

Hylander_1314 · 04-26-08, 07:30 PM

As long as they don't give it the "Pearl Harbor or Flyboys" treatment, it may be worth checking out. I'll wait this time though. I got burned on those and the Memphis Belle film that was done in the early '90s. So I'm more than a bit scepticle with HW films, big budget and indies.

Monica Lewinsky · 04-26-08, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

As long as they don't give it the "Pearl Harbor or Flyboys" treatment,

Amen!

Spent $12.00 Each to see Pearl Harbor [the two of us] - what a WASTE of money and time that movie was. Cannot remember Flyboys - refresh my memory please.

One movie I did enjoy [sorry outside the scope of subs], was the Aviator. I had a negative attitude going into the thearte, but enjoyed it coming out - Darn good movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnsignCrow

Had to bump this up for "The Enemy Below". Won an oscar for special effects.

One darn good movie! Watch that [Enemy Below] as much as Das Boot.

If you like that [Enemy Down Below], HIGHLY recommend the movie called "The Bedford Incident". EXCELLENT B&W flick!

Hylander_1314 · 04-26-08, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monica Lewinsky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

As long as they don't give it the "Pearl Harbor or Flyboys" treatment,

Amen!

Spent $12.00 Each to see Pearl Harbor [the two of us] - what a WASTE of money and time that movie was. Cannot remember Flyboys - refresh my memory please.

One movie I did enjoy [sorry outside the scope of subs], was the Aviator. I had a negative attitude going into the thearte, but enjoyed it coming out - Darn good movie.

Flyboys, WWI very loosely based on the Laffayette Escadrille. (To me it was, Marval Comics goes Hollywood). All the Fokker DrI's were red, and even my daughter at 14 saw the inaccuracies. One that I'm following is the Red Baron from Piximondo. It looks real good compared to the former WWI film. There are Albatros Fighters, Camels, SPADS, Se5as, Handley twin engine bombers, and the observation balloons, full of hydrogen gas.

Other good sub films, like Destination Tokyo are hard to find, but they were good if you keep in mind they were from the era, so hollywood gave them that "propaganda" atmosphere.

Carl Lyons · 06-25-08, 12:39 PM

Gentlemen.

My apologies for the extensive post. Thought everyone might like to know what is going on. Here is a release we sent out to the networks and area media this week.

Best,
Carl Lyons
Seaviper & USS Drum Doc

VILLANI-ROCKHILL PRODUCTIONS, INC.
Ralph Villani, Director
www.seaviper.net

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Villani-Rockhill Productions, Inc. of Stuart, Florida, Prepare to Shoot Their
Feature-Length Film, U.S.S. SEAVIPER, in South Florida

Crashing DC3’s, gun battles, and top secret meetings, are just a few of the scenes that a regional production
co-op headed by Villani-Rockhill Productions will be filming in Martin, St. Lucie, and Palm Beach Counties
over the next 3 months.

Villani-Rockhill Productions in co-operation with Statusfilms, Shoreline Production Services, Saturn Sound
Studios and TC Video will film eight scenes from the upcoming feature film, USS SEAVIPER, a World War
II submarine combat film. The story is about a submarine that discovers uranium on an island occupied by
Japanese and German soldiers in the south Pacific, while the Navigational Officer and Chief of the Boat
struggle for power, and USS SEAVIPER is hunted and depth charged by a Japanese destroyer.

Scene four, a “top secret” meeting that takes place in Hawaii during August of 1944 between Vice-Admiral
(Ralph VILLANI) and the Commanding Officer of SEAVIPER, Captain Culpepper (Steve ROTH), will be
shot at the historic home of Bill and Anne Krueger-Stimmell (Anne’s father, Karl Krueger, the former Mayor
of Stuart, Florida) on Saturday, June 28 from 7:00 am till 5:00 PM.

Director of Photography, Jon Schellenger, has chosen the RED camera for this project. USS SEAVIPER will
be shot on locations in south Florida as well as aboard an historic WW II submarine the USS DRUM, located
at Battleship Memorial Park in Mobile, Alabama. Additional locations will be shot in Wisconsin and New
Mexico.

The movie’s core, crew members are residents of south Florida: Ralph VILLANI/Director-Producer; Mike
TEUTSCH/Special FX Coordinator; Jon SCHELLENGER/Director of Photography; Rob NORRIS/Producer-
Chief Sound Mixer; Jane VEREEN/Line Producer; Greg JOCOY/Data Specialist; Bob Lutjen/Lighting
Design; Jose HERRERA/Assistant Director of Photography; and Alejandro MEJIA/Assistant Sound Mixer.
The script was written by Lynanne ROCKHILL, who also is a south Florida resident.

Military Vehicles for this location provided by the Road To Victory Military Museum in Stuart, Florida.
Civilian Vehicles provided by The Elliot Museum of Stuart, Florida and Gweed’s Gangstprovided by Shiloh Theater Company. Special thanks to Martin County and David Graham.

Hylander_1314 · 06-25-08, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Lyons

Gentlemen.

My apologies for the extensive post. Thought everyone might like to know what is going on. Here is a release we sent out to the networks and area media this week.

Best,
Carl Lyons
Seaviper & USS Drum Doc

VILLANI-ROCKHILL PRODUCTIONS, INC.
Ralph Villani, Director
www.seaviper.net

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Villani-Rockhill Productions, Inc. of Stuart, Florida, Prepare to Shoot Their
Feature-Length Film, U.S.S. SEAVIPER, in South Florida

Crashing DC3’s, gun battles, and top secret meetings, are just a few of the scenes that a regional production
co-op headed by Villani-Rockhill Productions will be filming in Martin, St. Lucie, and Palm Beach Counties
over the next 3 months.

Villani-Rockhill Productions in co-operation with Statusfilms, Shoreline Production Services, Saturn Sound
Studios and TC Video will film eight scenes from the upcoming feature film, USS SEAVIPER, a World War
II submarine combat film. The story is about a submarine that discovers uranium on an island occupied by
Japanese and German soldiers in the south Pacific, while the Navigational Officer and Chief of the Boat
struggle for power, and USS SEAVIPER is hunted and depth charged by a Japanese destroyer.

Scene four, a “top secret” meeting that takes place in Hawaii during August of 1944 between Vice-Admiral
(Ralph VILLANI) and the Commanding Officer of SEAVIPER, Captain Culpepper (Steve ROTH), will be
shot at the historic home of Bill and Anne Krueger-Stimmell (Anne’s father, Karl Krueger, the former Mayor
of Stuart, Florida) on Saturday, June 28 from 7:00 am till 5:00 PM.

Director of Photography, Jon Schellenger, has chosen the RED camera for this project. USS SEAVIPER will
be shot on locations in south Florida as well as aboard an historic WW II submarine the USS DRUM, located
at Battleship Memorial Park in Mobile, Alabama. Additional locations will be shot in Wisconsin and New
Mexico.

The movie’s core, crew members are residents of south Florida: Ralph VILLANI/Director-Producer; Mike
TEUTSCH/Special FX Coordinator; Jon SCHELLENGER/Director of Photography; Rob NORRIS/Producer-
Chief Sound Mixer; Jane VEREEN/Line Producer; Greg JOCOY/Data Specialist; Bob Lutjen/Lighting
Design; Jose HERRERA/Assistant Director of Photography; and Alejandro MEJIA/Assistant Sound Mixer.
The script was written by Lynanne ROCKHILL, who also is a south Florida resident.

Military Vehicles for this location provided by the Road To Victory Military Museum in Stuart, Florida.
Civilian Vehicles provided by The Elliot Museum of Stuart, Florida and Gweed’s Gangstprovided by Shiloh Theater Company. Special thanks to Martin County and David Graham.

Thanks Carl,

The only thing is, the turning point in the War in the Pacific, was The Battle of Midway. Japan lost 4 fleet carriers and was never able to recover from the loss of the ships, and the experienced aircrew that were lost with them. So by 1944, after America geared up for war, and production in the States outpaced all the Axis Partners combined, plus the manpower available to the U.S. forces, it was just a matter of time before the inevitable would happen.

Henry J. Kaiser was building cargo ships faster than the Germans and Japanese could sink them.

snakeyez · 06-25-08, 01:35 PM

Thanks for the update, Carl. Keep up the good work.

I've also been wanting to thank whoever from your crew that fixed up the USS Drum's Christmas Tree.

They did a great job on the new lenses. I hope he left a ton of spares.

Buddahaid · 06-25-08, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torps

The subs name is pure hollywood, the story idea isnt bad actually, what bugs me is (correct me if im wrong) the captain leaves his ship to go on a mission???um that would never happen.

Hey Captain Kirk did that every episode! What about Leon Uris' "Battle Cry" with Aldo Ray, and "The Big Red One", and "Hell in the Pacific", and "Attack" with Buddy Ebson, Lee Marvin, Jack Palance, Eddy Albert?

Buddahaid

DavyJonesFootlocker · 06-26-08, 06:50 AM

I wish someone would make a new movie about Wake Island. The stand of the US Marines and Civilians is the stuff legends are made of. That and a movie about the Korean War (the forgotten war). Seldom has a topic on that war made it to the modern screen.

Carl Lyons · 06-30-08, 11:48 PM

Without revealing to much about the plot, the Allie and Axis powers we're both going nuts looking for anything that had to do with the atom bomb. German and Jap officers we're discovered together at one point in a converted mine boat with supplies that included uranium. As you know the Axis forces were becoming increasingly desperate at this point and had no idea how close we were to winning. Even if they did the Japanese certainly wouldn't have stopped until all options were exhausted. Respectfully, these guys kept going even after Hiroshima.

With regard to the Captain leaving the boat. We've had questions regarding this before and there are a number of documented cases specifically with regard to prisoner recovery. Which is the case in our story.

Heres the deal. We have to have a story line, because we're making a movie. Anything that we've pushed the envelope on, we've spent hours discussing with seasoned sub vets. In each case and we're sure there will be few. We've asked the question could this happen or would this have happened. We've got at least "it's possible" or "ya it's documented". If it's not possible or documented we've pulled it.

We're diligently working to keep ourselves honest on this that's why we've got subvets standing over our shoulder for every detail of the film at our request.

We are currently fiming a documentary on the USS Drum as well. We've interviewed eight WW2 sub veterans. Snippets from some of those interviews will begin to appear on our site. I'll keep you posted.

With regard to the lenses you can thank our Special FX coordinator Mike Teutsch who hand ground and cut each one of those pieces. The lenses were then each individually installed by Tom Bowser, Lesley Waters and Mike.

If any of you are in the area and want to help with the restoration of the USS Drum give Tom a call at Battleship Memorial Park in Mobile. I am sure they'll welcome your help.

Here is a link for an article that ran in the Palm Beach Post this week.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/search/content/tcoast/epaper/2008/06/28/m1c_mcmovie_0629.html

Thanks for all of your continued support.

Kindest Regards,
Carl Lyons
Co-Producer
Seaviper Fim & USS Drum Doc

gimpy117 · 07-01-08, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torps

The subs name is pure hollywood, the story idea isnt bad actually, what bugs me is (correct me if im wrong) the captain leaves his ship to go on a mission???um that would never happen.

Hey Captain Kirk did that every episode! What about Leon Uris' "Battle Cry" with Aldo Ray, and "The Big Red One", and "Hell in the Pacific", and "Attack" with Buddy Ebson, Lee Marvin, Jack Palance, Eddy Albert?

Buddahaid

I do agree with the ships name being hollywood...but they wanted a imaginary submarine and just about every other fish is taken....

Seminole · 07-01-08, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honkas

most of all USS Seaviper sounds like a very hollywoodish and lame name for a submarine. Besides, to my knowledge at least, all US subs up until the Los Angeles class were named after fish or sea-mammals.

Well.. lets see there was the SeaDragon, the SeaWolf, the SeaRaven...I just don't see where the SeaViper is so out of place on that list.

Lets wait and see...who knows it might just be terriffic.

kholemann · 07-02-08, 09:37 AM

One thing folks just have to do with works of fiction is to divorce it from the actual realities of history that the piece wishes to change. So what if maybe a Captain never left his ship? So what if the actual turning point of WWII was some other historical event? Talk to 10 folks, get ten different opinions. Facts are still facts but fiction is just that, fiction. Factually based fiction has its critics, like me. My wife didn't enjoy U571 because I kept whispering to her about the discrepancies with history. What I should have done was just sat back and enjoyed the movie for what it was, a piece of artistic fiction. Das Boot has been said to have been unreal by just as many ex-u-boat captains as there ones that may have supported the movie. So what! I am going to go see the Seaviper movie in the theater or via DVD. If you want the movie to be 100% based on actual events then it is no longer a movie but a documentary. The Midway movie was fiction based on actual events but it was still fiction. Pearl Harbor (the movie) had its good points but it was still fiction (I didn't like it that much). Thus, my take on any movie is to sit back, enjoy the popcorn, and if the movie is good, stop analyzing it and enjoy it (if it is a well done movie). I loved Countdown until the very end. I saw it in the theater once and never saw it again. I so wanted our guys to not go back through the wormhole in time and just blast the Zeros with F-14s (or whatever they had). That would have been awesome (even though the whole thing was ahistorical to begin with).

Sailor Steve · 07-02-08, 09:41 AM

Very well said, kholemann. If I don't like the movie I'll certainly say so, but I'm going to see it first before I make that judgement.

Doolittle81 · 07-02-08, 01:14 PM

I just hope that the make-up crew makes an effort to de-beautify the actors...For example, in real life in the WWII era, very few folks had perfect, braces-produced, brilliantly white Porcelain-veneer teeth/smiles. Unfortunately, Hollywood-type actors can't get a job without such 'Looks'.

Consider Das Boot, which avoided the Beautiful Actor syndrome: "Most of the filming was done in one year; to make the appearance of the actors as realistic as possible, scenes were filmed in sequence over the course of the year. This ensured natural growth of beards and hair, increasing skin pallor, and signs of strain on the actors, who had, just like real U-boat men, spent many months in a cramped, unhealthy atmosphere.

Throughout the filming, the actors were forbidden to go out into the sunlight, to create the pallor of men who seldom saw the sun during their missions.

Think about the appearance of the Chief Mechanic, Johann:

04-26-08, 07:30 PM	#107
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	As long as they don't give it the "Pearl Harbor or Flyboys" treatment, it may be worth checking out. I'll wait this time though. I got burned on those and the Memphis Belle film that was done in the early '90s. So I'm more than a bit scepticle with HW films, big budget and indies. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

06-25-08, 12:39 PM	#110
Carl Lyons Watch Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 18 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Seaviper Press Release 62408 Gentlemen. My apologies for the extensive post. Thought everyone might like to know what is going on. Here is a release we sent out to the networks and area media this week. Best, Carl Lyons Seaviper & USS Drum Doc VILLANI-ROCKHILL PRODUCTIONS, INC. Ralph Villani, Director www.seaviper.net FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Villani-Rockhill Productions, Inc. of Stuart, Florida, Prepare to Shoot Their Feature-Length Film, U.S.S. SEAVIPER, in South Florida Crashing DC3’s, gun battles, and top secret meetings, are just a few of the scenes that a regional production co-op headed by Villani-Rockhill Productions will be filming in Martin, St. Lucie, and Palm Beach Counties over the next 3 months. Villani-Rockhill Productions in co-operation with Statusfilms, Shoreline Production Services, Saturn Sound Studios and TC Video will film eight scenes from the upcoming feature film, USS SEAVIPER, a World War II submarine combat film. The story is about a submarine that discovers uranium on an island occupied by Japanese and German soldiers in the south Pacific, while the Navigational Officer and Chief of the Boat struggle for power, and USS SEAVIPER is hunted and depth charged by a Japanese destroyer. Scene four, a “top secret” meeting that takes place in Hawaii during August of 1944 between Vice-Admiral (Ralph VILLANI) and the Commanding Officer of SEAVIPER, Captain Culpepper (Steve ROTH), will be shot at the historic home of Bill and Anne Krueger-Stimmell (Anne’s father, Karl Krueger, the former Mayor of Stuart, Florida) on Saturday, June 28 from 7:00 am till 5:00 PM. Director of Photography, Jon Schellenger, has chosen the RED camera for this project. USS SEAVIPER will be shot on locations in south Florida as well as aboard an historic WW II submarine the USS DRUM, located at Battleship Memorial Park in Mobile, Alabama. Additional locations will be shot in Wisconsin and New Mexico. The movie’s core, crew members are residents of south Florida: Ralph VILLANI/Director-Producer; Mike TEUTSCH/Special FX Coordinator; Jon SCHELLENGER/Director of Photography; Rob NORRIS/Producer- Chief Sound Mixer; Jane VEREEN/Line Producer; Greg JOCOY/Data Specialist; Bob Lutjen/Lighting Design; Jose HERRERA/Assistant Director of Photography; and Alejandro MEJIA/Assistant Sound Mixer. The script was written by Lynanne ROCKHILL, who also is a south Florida resident. Military Vehicles for this location provided by the Road To Victory Military Museum in Stuart, Florida. Civilian Vehicles provided by The Elliot Museum of Stuart, Florida and Gweed’s Gangstprovided by Shiloh Theater Company. Special thanks to Martin County and David Graham.

06-25-08, 01:35 PM	#112
snakeyez Last Man Down Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 242 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the update, Carl. Keep up the good work. I've also been wanting to thank whoever from your crew that fixed up the USS Drum's Christmas Tree. They did a great job on the new lenses. I hope he left a ton of spares. __________________ SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG - These are the submarines in your neighborhood! Get involved, they need you. Doyle Blalock - the life of my WWII submarine veteran grandfather. Drum228.org - devoted to the Gato-class museum sub USS Drum (SS-228) complete with war patrol reports, historical info, and restoration progress.

06-26-08, 06:50 AM	#114
DavyJonesFootlocker The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stink Drunk in Trinidad Posts: 1,572 Downloads: 138 Uploads: 0	I wish someone would make a new movie about Wake Island. The stand of the US Marines and Civilians is the stuff legends are made of. That and a movie about the Korean War (the forgotten war). Seldom has a topic on that war made it to the modern screen. __________________ "Silence means death. Stand on your feet. Inner fear your worst enemy."- Sepultura. My Silent Hunter 5 mantra is this......"Torpedo missed, sir!" A P-400 is a P-40 with a Zero after it. A proud member of the Wikipedia Haters Club

06-30-08, 11:48 PM	#115
Carl Lyons Watch Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 18 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Turning Point and Leaving the boat Without revealing to much about the plot, the Allie and Axis powers we're both going nuts looking for anything that had to do with the atom bomb. German and Jap officers we're discovered together at one point in a converted mine boat with supplies that included uranium. As you know the Axis forces were becoming increasingly desperate at this point and had no idea how close we were to winning. Even if they did the Japanese certainly wouldn't have stopped until all options were exhausted. Respectfully, these guys kept going even after Hiroshima. With regard to the Captain leaving the boat. We've had questions regarding this before and there are a number of documented cases specifically with regard to prisoner recovery. Which is the case in our story. Heres the deal. We have to have a story line, because we're making a movie. Anything that we've pushed the envelope on, we've spent hours discussing with seasoned sub vets. In each case and we're sure there will be few. We've asked the question could this happen or would this have happened. We've got at least "it's possible" or "ya it's documented". If it's not possible or documented we've pulled it. We're diligently working to keep ourselves honest on this that's why we've got subvets standing over our shoulder for every detail of the film at our request. We are currently fiming a documentary on the USS Drum as well. We've interviewed eight WW2 sub veterans. Snippets from some of those interviews will begin to appear on our site. I'll keep you posted. With regard to the lenses you can thank our Special FX coordinator Mike Teutsch who hand ground and cut each one of those pieces. The lenses were then each individually installed by Tom Bowser, Lesley Waters and Mike. If any of you are in the area and want to help with the restoration of the USS Drum give Tom a call at Battleship Memorial Park in Mobile. I am sure they'll welcome your help. Here is a link for an article that ran in the Palm Beach Post this week. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/search/content/tcoast/epaper/2008/06/28/m1c_mcmovie_0629.html Thanks for all of your continued support. Kindest Regards, Carl Lyons Co-Producer Seaviper Fim & USS Drum Doc Last edited by Carl Lyons; 07-01-08 at 03:32 PM.

07-02-08, 09:37 AM	#118
kholemann Gunner Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 98 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	One thing folks just have to do with works of fiction is to divorce it from the actual realities of history that the piece wishes to change. So what if maybe a Captain never left his ship? So what if the actual turning point of WWII was some other historical event? Talk to 10 folks, get ten different opinions. Facts are still facts but fiction is just that, fiction. Factually based fiction has its critics, like me. My wife didn't enjoy U571 because I kept whispering to her about the discrepancies with history. What I should have done was just sat back and enjoyed the movie for what it was, a piece of artistic fiction. Das Boot has been said to have been unreal by just as many ex-u-boat captains as there ones that may have supported the movie. So what! I am going to go see the Seaviper movie in the theater or via DVD. If you want the movie to be 100% based on actual events then it is no longer a movie but a documentary. The Midway movie was fiction based on actual events but it was still fiction. Pearl Harbor (the movie) had its good points but it was still fiction (I didn't like it that much). Thus, my take on any movie is to sit back, enjoy the popcorn, and if the movie is good, stop analyzing it and enjoy it (if it is a well done movie). I loved Countdown until the very end. I saw it in the theater once and never saw it again. I so wanted our guys to not go back through the wormhole in time and just blast the Zeros with F-14s (or whatever they had). That would have been awesome (even though the whole thing was ahistorical to begin with).

07-02-08, 09:41 AM	#119
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Very well said, kholemann. If I don't like the movie I'll certainly say so, but I'm going to see it first before I make that judgement. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

07-02-08, 01:14 PM	#120
Doolittle81 Commodore Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 624 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I just hope that the make-up crew makes an effort to de-beautify the actors...For example, in real life in the WWII era, very few folks had perfect, braces-produced, brilliantly white Porcelain-veneer teeth/smiles. Unfortunately, Hollywood-type actors can't get a job without such 'Looks'. Consider Das Boot, which avoided the Beautiful Actor syndrome: "Most of the filming was done in one year; to make the appearance of the actors as realistic as possible, scenes were filmed in sequence over the course of the year. This ensured natural growth of beards and hair, increasing skin pallor, and signs of strain on the actors, who had, just like real U-boat men, spent many months in a cramped, unhealthy atmosphere. Throughout the filming, the actors were forbidden to go out into the sunlight, to create the pallor of men who seldom saw the sun during their missions. Think about the appearance of the Chief Mechanic, Johann: