The dark age is coming back

[VON_CAPO]

Originally Posted by sonar732

...Reference my post regarding facts on the internet....

Why you, August & others ask me to answer or to do something?
To demonstrate you that I am wrong?
Better, demostrate that you are right.

Are you so trained by religion to suppress your rational mind that the logic is beyond your reach?

You are leaning on a concept called "faith", that as you know, it is the suppression of the rational thought to accept unbelievable myths.

Think about it.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Sorry, but I can´t try "it very well can be true". A god - through a fire - spoke to three million people more than 3000 years ago? :hmm:

Nobody's asking you to try it, per se. Of course, you could always argue that we Jews are known for our chutzpah and this claim has got to be the most chutzpahdik of all. So it figures. :p

Many grew up with this story, many were taught to believe it. The usual religious indoctrination, like it happens in most (all?) other religions. At best I give it 0.01% chance that the story is actually true. The thing is, no one can actually prove that it happened.

Really what other religion makes a claim that an entire nation witnessed G-d?

How did we get away with it?

When did we start this?

[VON_CAPO]

I am wondering, what is necessary to reverse years of indoctrination and liberate this people? :hmm::hmm::hmm:

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

I only show facts.

The following are a sample of verbatim quotes of statements you have made or quoted in this thread which are opinions - not facts:

"The dark age is coming."

"The theocratic State. This is happening in America right now!"

"Yet, in 1954 - fueled by the Cold War and blinded by McCarthyism - Congress violated its oath."

"Religious american society's point of view about atheists: ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU"

"Followers of mythology and superstition are who proclaim "eternal life" and "judgment day" (something like their god will come to kill everyone, and only the chosen ones will survive).
Also they have a folklore of: souls, phantoms, zombies, halloween, 666, vampires, etc. Well, you know, this people believes in supernatural stuff. Their behavior is driven by fear.

"I take this sentence as mine."

"Anyone disputing the book's credibility, is driven by the devil."

"The fact that nearly half of the American population apparently believes this, purely on the basis of religious dogma, should be considered a moral and intellectual emergency."

"By the way, I refuse your imputation, I only show facts."

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

I am wondering, what is necessary to reverse years of indoctrination and liberate this people? :hmm::hmm::hmm:

Liberate from what? Most religious people are quite happy with what they are, as are most atheists. To each his own.

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

Are you so trained by religion to suppress your rational mind that the logic is beyond your reach?

I am rational enough to know there is no such thing as "luck"...it is a divine intervention. Perfect example is one that someone elluded to earlier. If someone was suppose to either die or live in a comma, but came out of it...where is the rationalisation of it?

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

You are leaning on a concept called "faith", that as you know, it is the suppression of the rational thought to accept unbelievable myths.

The definition of faith is very broad...

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

So, you are saying that if you have faith that your parents would do something for you...whether it be playing catch with you or protecting you from harm, that it's irrational? A child doesn't have a rational mind per say...they rely on faith.

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

Think about it.

I have.

[VON_CAPO]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Liberate from what? Most religious people are quite happy with what they are, as are most atheists. To each his own.

From the basis of teaching of the religions, that postulate how to live and how to think, always under the sight of punitive gods.. I think their minds are not calm and they need gods desperately to get relieve of their diary personal struggle.
Of course, this is just a temporary line of thought. (a wondering)

But, as you said: "To teach his own", I leave the subject alone.

[August]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

Why you, August & others ask me to answer or to do something?

To demonstrate you that I am wrong?
Better, demostrate that you are right.

Why should we? You're the one who made the claim that America is slipping into theocracy, so defend your statements or admit you're wrong.

Are you so trained by religion to suppress your rational mind that the logic is beyond your reach?

Are you so blinded by hatred for God that you suppress your rational mind in favor of illogical scaremongering?

You are leaning on a concept called "faith", that as you know, it is the suppression of the rational thought to accept unbelievable myths.

Think about it.

Wow, an athiest is claiming God is unbelievable. Now who would have thunk it? And your definition of faith is wrong. Is it a suppression of rational thought to have faith the sun will rise in the morning?

Again, you're the person claiming there's a problem here, not us, so i'd be interested in hearing your solutions to the "problem" of millions of people making a candidates religion their voting criteria, or the fact that our Chief Executive is a beleiver, or religious authorities recommending their congregations vote for one candidate or another. C'mon Capo, according to you this is a big problem right? So what are you gonna do about it?

[VON_CAPO]

Originally Posted by sonar732

So, you are saying that if you have faith that your parents would do something for you...whether it be playing catch with you or protecting you from harm, that it's irrational? A child doesn't have a rational mind per say...they rely on faith.

You are playing with the words, it was pretty clear the subject.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Of course, you could always argue that we Jews are known for our chutzpah and this claim has got to be the most chutzpahdik of all. So it figures. :p

Really what other religion makes a claim that an entire nation witnessed G-d?

None, as you know.

How did we get away with it?

Good question. It certainly helped that it supposedly happened 3000 years ago. Back then it was even easier to fake stories than it is today.

The article concluded that it´s absolutely impossible to make up such a story. Do you agree with that or can you imagine that´s there is a chance (however small) that the story isn´t true?

When did we start this?

Dunno.

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

You are playing with the words, it was pretty clear the subject.

As is the definition that I posted.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

The article concluded that it´s absolutely impossible to make up such a story. Do you agree with that or can you imagine that´s there is a chance (however small) that the story isn´t true?

I don't know. The Torah's text has retained its text wherever we Jews have traveled. There is no major difference (other than a letter or pronunciation vowel here and there) between Torah scroll written in the past or in Israel, Europe, Morocco, England, Russia, etc.

The entire Torah is read, in portions, every Sabbath, over the span of each Jewish calendar year, repeated again every year. This is listed as one of the commandents instituted by Moses himself.

The article early on quotes verses in Deuteronomy that state:

[Moses told the Israelites]: 'Only beware for yourself and greatly beware for your soul, lest you forget the things that your eyes have beheld. Do not remove this memory from your heart all the days of your life. Teach your children and your children's children about the day that you stood before the Lord your God at Horev [Mount Sinai]...

God spoke to you from the midst of the fire, you were hearing the sound of words, but you were not seeing a form, only a sound. He told you of His covenant, instructing you to keep the Ten Commandments, and He inscribed them on two stone tablets.' (Deut.4:9-13)

'You have been shown in order to know that God, He is the Supreme Being. There is none besides Him. From heaven he let you hear His voice in order to teach you, and on earth He showed you His great fire, and you heard His words amid the fire.' (Deut. 4:32-36)

Moses called all of Israel and said to them: 'Hear, O Israel, the decrees and the ordinances that I speak in your ears today -- learn them, and be careful to perform them. The Lord your God sealed a covenant with us at Horev [Mount Sinai]. Not with our forefathers did God seal this covenant, but with us -- we who are here, all of us alive today. Face to face did God speak with you on the mountain from amid the fire.' (Deut. 5:1-4)

I will get a little bit smirky again and add that the importance of education has always been a high priority religious obligation in Judaism.

Now explain to me how an entire nation accepted as fact the above verses if they were introduced to them "after the fact", with no continuity that anyone beforehand ever heard of? I wouldn't. I don't know anyone that would. Would you? I assume not.

Again, think about it. :hmm:

[VON_CAPO]

Originally Posted by August

You're the one who made the claim that America is slipping into theocracy, so defend your statements or admit you're wrong.

There are many post making an introduction and exposition of the subject.
Did not read them? Did you properly understood them?

Originally Posted by August

Are you so blinded by hatred for God that you suppress your rational mind in favor of illogical scaremongering?

It is impossible to hate something no existent.

[August]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

There are many post making an introduction and exposition of the subject.
Did not read them? Did you properly understood them?

I read them and understood them. Have you bothered reading the many replies? This thread is about your claim that my country is slipping headlong into theocracy. I and many others who actually live here have said this is wrong. Why do you refuse to believe it?

It is impossible to hate something no existent.

You hate the subject enough to start a 5 page thread arguing your point that something needs to be done about this so called problem. You hate disagreement enought to try to invoke moderator action against those that disagree with you.

I don't particularly care whether you believe in God or not, but you will allow myself and billions of people on the planet our beliefs as well.

[VON_CAPO]

[quote=August]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

I read them and understood them. Have you bothered reading the many replies? This thread is about your claim that my country is slipping headlong into theocracy. I and many others who actually live here have said this is wrong. Why do you refuse to believe it?

Because I live here too. Otherwise, why bother?