Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Jimbuna]

There are reports that the Russians are returning to the positions that were flooded as a result of the explosion of the Kakhovka dam, and are trying to set up mortar positions.

So it's definitely not one sided it would appear.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I doubt many Wagners will fight for the regular army. And Putin still needs Wagner, in Syria and other African places. Using them still in Ukraine however indeed seems risky.

Question is to what degree Wagner has or can become more independent form logistical support from the defence ministry.

The rebellion in the first seems to have been due to Schoigu's attempt to effectively dissolve Wagner.

The members of Wagner see Prigozjin as their czar, he pays them good and on time they also have better equipment than the regular Russian soldier. His Wagner soldiers are still in Ukraine as far as we know, and Wagner now seems too big to simply disband. The mercenary army is also an essential part of the Russian invasion force in Ukraine. Wagner, moreover, is deeply intertwined with the Russian military and intelligence services. Many mercenaries are former commandos, but there is also close cooperation beyond that: Wagner shares its largest base, in Molkin, with military intelligence. Much of the Wagner money flowing in from around the world, meanwhile, still passes through his hands, and as long as it flows, the Wagner group is much more than just a group of mercenaries. Money is power, even for Prigozhin and for Wagner.

The military equipment of the Wagner Group will be transferred to the Russian army. This was reported by the Russian Defense Ministry to Russian state news agency Tass, but has not yet been confirmed elsewhere. According to Tass, preparations are under way for the transfer of "heavy military equipment to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation". I do not believe this what Putin regime is doing is trying to extinguish the fires, but this fire is also in the Russian army in Ukraine mid level officers and below are more on the side of Wagner than their own leadership their only protest is now delay order or state they never received them this can cause huge problem in supplying the front.

Putin loses one of the most important weapons: time

One of the most important weapons Vladimir Putin thought he had in his hands against Ukraine and his Western partners has been taken out of his hands. Time. However great the repression Putin now unleashes on his own country, it is no longer so certain which will last longer: the war or Putin's rule. What effect do the dramatic developments in Russia, which began on Friday with Prigozhin's mutiny, have on the war in Ukraine? As with all questions about the future, the answer is unknown. But if you look at the strategic parameters of the war, they herald a crucial change. Until now, analysts assumed that the clock was one of Vladimir Putin's main weapons. Now they are asking the opposite question: how long can Russia sustain this war itself? Three players are critical to the outcome of this war: Russia, Ukraine and the Western countries supporting Kyiv. The most underestimated of these three was (and is) Ukraine, whose people have shown the will to resist from day 1, helped by a course-setting president. The West also surprised itself and President Putin with a resolute, united response and a steady flow of weapons.

Russia, the third player and instigator of the violence against Ukraine, is the hardest to fathom - because it is not a free country with a free press or free elections. Authoritarian ruled countries often look stable from the outside, but quite often turn out to be imposing structures that mask internal rot well. That makes their stability unpredictable. As this newspaper wrote just after the second invasion began: 'Autocrats are supreme, but that power can drain away just like that'. So it was always taken into account that the war could have consequences for Russia and neighboring Belarus. But even if the war led to major tensions, when would they manifest themselves? It could be tomorrow, or 10 years from now. And so this remained one of the 'known unknown' factors of this war.

Putin's speech on Saturday put an end to that speculation. That Putin felt threatened was already clear from his salutation. He addressed 'citizens of Russia, the personnel of the armed forces, the bodies responsible for public order, special services, the fighters and commanders'. He spoke of an 'attack in the back of our country and our people'. His speech was a warning not only to Wagner or Prigozhin, but to all members of the security organs and the armed forces. Of their loyalty he was apparently not assured. Of the soldiers, this was already known. The same appears to be true of Russian citizens, who were divided but mostly positive towards Prigozhin's troops in Rostov. The apathy of the general public so far is not surprising, given the repression of dissent and the climate of ubiquitous state propaganda. But it has long been clear that the 'elite' are unhappy with the war. It is bad for business, isolating Russia and destroying Russia's economic model (importing Western technology in exchange for exporting raw materials). Recent events break the front of unity that the Kremlin and state propaganda carefully guarded. Prigozhin's outburst, in which he undermined the entire cause of the war ('genocide committed against Russians in eastern Ukraine') and traded it for greed on the part of the army leadership and the special services, was the latest in a series of criticisms of the army leadership, also well-reviewed in Russia. Although Putin remained unnamed in these, it was clear that some of these struck at him.

For this reason, some have long seen Prigozhin's performance as evidence that Putin's omnipotence was apparently subject to erosion. Why else - other than out of necessity - would he have allowed such developments to fester for months? What Russian-American journalist and writer Masha Gessen touted earlier - 'Putin losing monopoly on political opinion and action' - suddenly came to the surface in recent days. Russia's newspapers, which are tight-lipped about the 'special military operation', also offer a brief glimpse of public opinion formation. Between the lines, as BBC's Steve Rosenberg showed on Monday, the incongruities of Putin's actions are pointed out, although the scenario of the restoration, however implausible - Putin as 'savior of the fatherland' - is also being written in abundance.

It is too early to speculate much about the battlefield military effects of what happened, except that they will have a negative impact on already poor Russian morale (why get shot in a war fought between factions fighting among themselves?) and a positive one on Ukrainian morale. This too is a strategic effect: not only Ukrainians, but also Western countries supporting Ukraine, will be further strengthened in their resolve now that they see that the grand invasion of Ukraine can turn like a military boomerang against its instigators. Putin will want to convince his audiences inside and outside Russia that he will emerge stronger from this crisis. A repressive version of the fairy tale of the emperor's new clothes lies ahead. What he cannot erase is that he suffered another defeat this weekend, including in the war against Ukraine. https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-ach...tijd~b97d0fdb/

Prigozhin's rebellion did not turn out to be the gift Ukraine was hoping for. But at a crucial moment, that uprising reminded everyone in Europe how important it is to keep the gangster state that Russia now is at bay, and undercut Putin's message that time is on his side - and that European countries had better immediately scale back their aid to Ukraine. Putin, meanwhile, faces an anabolic version of the 'loyalty-compromise'. That term was coined by two political scientists expelled from Russia for the problem facing dictators. A dictator cannot escape giving power to subordinates. But the more competent they are in assessing and playing with power relations, the more dangerous they are for the ruler. The latter is therefore tempted to choose less competent subordinates - say, the more boorish battle like Defence Minister Shoygoe and Chief of Staff Gerasimov. This has not brought the desired results on the battlefield or in Moscow for now.

And Putin will have to make it clear to the elites and rulers that their loyalty is as useful as ever, and that otherwise at least their defection will be just as costly. And he will want to make it impossible for another alternative to his rule to emerge. About what subtle that looks like, he will worry little image that has always been a secondary issue for Putin.

[Jimbuna]

[tonschk]

A Bunch of NATO Terrorists Fall in a Minefield Trap Are Losing their Legs One After the Other

[Jimbuna]

Meanwhile Russian invaders commit further war crimes by attacking civilian infrastructure ie. a shopping centre killing three children amongst others.

Eight people have been killed, including three children, by Russian missiles that hit the centre of Kramatorsk in eastern Ukraine.

A restaurant and shopping area were hit in Tuesday's strike on the city, which is under Ukrainian control but close to Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine.

Rescuers are continuing to search for people trapped under the debris.

At least 56 others were injured in the strike, according to Ukrainian emergency services.

An eyewitness told the BBC he saw "dead people, people screaming, people crying, huge chaos".

A 17-year-old girl was reported to be among those who were killed in the attack, which happened at around 19:30 local time (16:30 GMT).

There were also apartment buildings at the epicentre of the explosion, officials said.

Social media and drone footage from the scene show significant damage to the buildings, some of which have been reduced to rubble.

Belgian freelance journalist Arnaud De Decker told BBC Newshour he was at the popular Ria Lounge restaurant just minutes before it was hit.

"There's still people underneath the rubble because it's a big restaurant," he said.

"Now I can hear people screaming underneath the rubble as rescuers are trying to save them."

He estimated up to 80 staff members and customers were on the restaurant premises at the time of the strike, so feared the casualty number could be "severe".

Officials say at least 40 people were injured, including an eight-month-old baby and three foreigners.

A rescue operation is currently under way in the city centre, with security agencies assisting emergency services at the scene and evacuating victims.

Local authorities say the area had a high concentration of civilians when the missiles hit.

"This is the city centre. These were public eating places crowded with civilians," regional governor Pavlo Kyrylenko told Ukrainian television.

Mr De Decker described the restaurant as a local "gathering hub" that was also popular with soldiers, journalists and volunteers.

Russian forces also targeted a nearby village, Kramatorsk city council said.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said the attack proved to Ukraine and the world that Russia deserved "only defeat and a tribunal, just and lawful courts against all Russian murderers and terrorists".

The White House condemned Russia for its "brutal strikes" on Ukraine.

Kramatorsk has often been targeted by missiles since the start of the invasion in February 2022.

The city of 150,000 people is one of the largest still under Ukrainian control in the besieged east. It lies about 30km (18 miles) from the frontline.

In April of last year more than 60 people died in Kramatorsk following a missile strike on the city's railway station.

It is also exactly a year to the day since a shopping centre in the city of Kremenchuk was hit by Russian shelling, killing at least 18 people.

This latest attack comes as Mr Zelensky said Ukraine's counter-offensive was advancing on all fronts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66031342

[Jimbuna]

[Dargo]

Most Americans support US arming Ukraine

WASHINGTON, June 28 (Reuters) - Solid majorities of Americans support providing weaponry to Ukraine to defend itself against Russia and believe that such aid demonstrates to China and other U.S. rivals a will to protect U.S. interests and allies, according to a Reuters/Ipsos survey. The two-day poll that was concluded on Tuesday charted a sharp rise in backing for arming Ukraine, with 65% of the respondents approving of the shipments compared with 46% in a May poll. Eighty-one percent of Democrats, 56% of Republicans and 57% of independents favor supplying U.S. weapons to Ukraine, according to the latest poll.

The survey was conducted just days after Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of the private Wagner mercenary company, launched and then called off a mutiny over what he charged was the Russian defense ministry's mishandling of the war in Ukraine. The findings appeared to provide firmer backing for U.S. President Joe Biden's policy of doing "whatever it takes" to assist Ukraine in recapturing territory that Russia seized in an initial assault in 2014 and its full-scale invasion 16 months ago. "This definitely reinforces Biden's decision to be all-in on this," said William Taylor, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine now with the U.S. Institute of Peace. "The Republican leadership of the House and Senate will also take heart from this," Taylor said. Some right-wing Republican lawmakers have opposed continuing U.S. military support for Ukraine.

The Biden administration has approved 41 weapons packages for Ukraine totaling more than $40 billion since Russian President Vladimir Putin launched what he calls "a special military operation" in February 2022. The online Reuters/Ipsos poll was conducted nationwide, collecting responses from 1,004 adults, including 400 Democrats and 383 Republicans. It had a credibility interval, a measure of precision, of about 4 percentage points in either direction.

The poll found that 76% of Americans believe that providing aid to Ukraine demonstrates to China and other rivals that the United States has "the will and capability to protect our interests, our allies and ourselves." In other findings, the survey said large majorities of Americans - 67% and 73% - are more likely to support a candidate in next year's U.S. presidential election who will continue military aid to Ukraine and one who backs the NATO alliance. https://www.reuters.com/world/most-a...os-2023-06-28/

[Exocet25fr]

Ukrainian war crimes too....?

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/202.../tcbh-m25.html

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Exocet25fr

Ukrainian war crimes too....?

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/202.../tcbh-m25.html

In all wars all sides are guilty of war crimes this happens you can not control all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied...g_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
https://besacenter.org/netherlands-war-crimes/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoryutch_war_crimes

[Catfish]

It seems Surovikin may be the reason why Prigozhin is still alive..

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...00048911532042

Translation from german Spiegel:

"US officials are trying to find out "whether the former Russian supreme commander in Ukraine helped plan Prigozhin's actions over the past weekend," the newspaper writes. A request from the Reuters news agency was initially left unanswered by both the Kremlin and the Pentagon ."

https://www-spiegel-de.translate.goo..._x_tr_pto=wapp

[Skybird]

The numercial ratio between war crimes by both sides speak a crystal clear language, and not in favour of the Russian fascist attacker.

The latest one: the Ukrainian secret service SBU arrested the employee of a local gas company on Wednesday. The man was suspected of spying on the restaurant in Kramatorsk as a target the day before and transmitting pictures of it to a soldier of the fascist invaders.

If true that means the aggressors do not even just randomly fire into civilian crowds and building blocks, but pick amongst several ones and precisely target these civilian targets, deleting any randomness in the action, in a deliberate bid for maximising the effects of their terror.

[Catfish]

More of Ukraine's offensive, rather than about Prigozhin

[Skybird]

Sweden seems to suffer from brain rotting.

The police allowed the burning of a Koran on Wednesday, and Wednesday was a Muslim holiday. The organizer wanted to wake up people that Islam is dangerous and incompatible with democracy and Western values. So far so good, no complaint from me until here. Though I add that Russia also is incompatible with democracy and Western values.

Erdoğan, on the other hand, has stated several times in the past that Swedish entry into the military alliance remains futile as long as Koran burnings are allowed in Sweden.

So the membership for Sweden indeed is in question, now that Turkish elections are over and hope was that the padisha emperor at the Bosporus would mercifully and opportunistically give the Swedes a kind nod.

Forget it, stupid Swedes.

You should have waited until you got the deal and got the membership treaty signed - and then burn the Koran.

But not before, you stupid idiots.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Exocet25fr

Ukrainian war crimes too....?

From your very link:
"Vous nous avez demandé d'enquêter sur une vidéo où l'on voit des prisonniers, présentés comme russes, être torturés par des hommes en uniformes. Il n'est pas possible de confirmer de manière certaine l’authenticité des images."

Translation:
"You asked us to investigate a video showing prisoners, presented as Russians, being tortured by men in uniform. It is not possible to confirm with certainty the authenticity of the images."

Ah. So?

And from the "World Socialist Website" ?! lmao

From Stalin through the cold war years to Putin does anyone still believe that Russia has ever been anything else than a dictatorship?

Funnny how the so-called "left" supports fascists like Putin just because Russia claimed to be a "communist" country until 1989. It NEVER was.
No, you love dictators and dictatorships, and it shows.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Catfish

From the "World Socialist Website" ?! lmao

From Stalin through the cold war years to Putin does anyone still believe that Russia has ever been anything else than a dictatorship?

Funnny how the so-called "left" supports fascists like Putin just because Russia claimed to be a "communist" country until 1989. It NEVER was.
No, you love dictators and dictatorships, and it shows.

Well said.