Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Jimbuna]

[Skybird]

I fRiussia canniot get and keep Ulkraine, it will try its best to turn it into scorched earth so thaturkainans cannot live anymore, too. The destruction of farmland by polluting it (dam explosions), the destruction of economy and factories, the danger of nuclear poisoning of the land. It all has a big black label on it saying "Scorched Earth Policy".

[Jimbuna]

[Dargo]

Oeps

Full message of Prigozhi "declaring war on the Russian Ministry of Defence:

"PMC Wagner CommandersÂ’ Council made a decision: the evil brought by the military leadership of the country must be stopped.

They neglect the lives of soldiers. They forgot the word “justice”, and we will bring it back.

Those, who destroyed today our guys, who destroyed tens, tens of thousands of lives of Russian soldiers will be punished.

IÂ’m asking: no one resist. Everyone who will try to resist, we will consider them a danger and destroy them immediately, including any checkpoints on our way. And any aviation that we see above our heads.

IÂ’m asking everyone to remain calm, do not succumb to provocations, and remain in their houses. Ideally, those along our way, do not go outside.

After we finished what we started, we will return to the frontline to protect our motherland.

Presidential authority, Government, Ministry of Internal Affairs, Rosgvardia, and other departments will continue operating as before.

We will deal with those who destroy Russian soldiers. And we will return to the frontline.

Justice in the Army will be restored. And after this, justice for the whole of Russia." https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...14259907158028

Originally Posted by Dargo

Oeps

Full message of Prigozhi "declaring war on the Russian Ministry of Defence:

"PMC Wagner CommandersÂ’ Council made a decision: the evil brought by the military leadership of the country must be stopped.

They neglect the lives of soldiers. They forgot the word “justice”, and we will bring it back.

Those, who destroyed today our guys, who destroyed tens, tens of thousands of lives of Russian soldiers will be punished.

IÂ’m asking: no one resist. Everyone who will try to resist, we will consider them a danger and destroy them immediately, including any checkpoints on our way. And any aviation that we see above our heads.

IÂ’m asking everyone to remain calm, do not succumb to provocations, and remain in their houses. Ideally, those along our way, do not go outside.

After we finished what we started, we will return to the frontline to protect our motherland.

Presidential authority, Government, Ministry of Internal Affairs, Rosgvardia, and other departments will continue operating as before.

We will deal with those who destroy Russian soldiers. And we will return to the frontline.

Justice in the Army will be restored. And after this, justice for the whole of Russia." https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...14259907158028

If I might add to this, as a total non expert on Russian politics, I canÂ’t see how Prigozhin could make these extreme criticisms of the armed forces and even Putin without the backing of very powerful forces. HeÂ’s never seemed stupid or suicidal. There is more going on here.
And now he's accusing the army of attacking Wagner bases with missiles. He's obviously not afraid to make these claims against the army loud and in public. This has to be part of a deliberate campaign, but exactly who is working with him is the key thing.

What do we know. He is making the most brutal claims against the army, while interesting talking up Ukraine and now criticizing the Russian justification for the full scale invasion. At the same time, all of Wagner has been pulled out of Ukraine to reform.

THis seems part of a well thought out campaign to have a military force in Russia for a struggle for power, and maybe at the same time to convince the west that this new faction is the best one with which to do business. It might seem angry and impulsive, but actually is canny

Ukrainians wondering if this is part of a coup attempt. Certainly sounds like an attempt to overthrow the whole military leadership. The real wild card is PutinÂ’s role in all this. https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/...11399173726209

Vladimir Putin is understood to be faced with “increasingly raucous infighting” among his entourage.

While it does not pose an immediate threat to the Russian president, reports the Associated Press, some analysts say failure to stop the fallouts between Yevgeny Prigozhin, head of the Wagner group, and Russian military leaders could signal a shift in RussiaÂ’s politics and lead to further internal disagreements.

It comes after a video showed the millionaire contractor stood in front of dead bodies of his troops in Ukraine shouting insults at Russian military leaders and blaming them for the deaths.

“They came here as volunteers and they died to let you lounge in your red wood offices,” Prigozhin shouted. “You are sitting in your expensive clubs, your children are enjoying good living and filming videos on YouTube. Those who don’t give us ammunition will be eaten alive in hell!”

Nigel Gould-Davies, a senior fellow for Russia and Eurasia at the International Institute for Strategic Studies and the editor of its Strategic Survey, told AP that while Putin did not appear to be losing influence, he said: “There are growing signs of deep dysfunction, anxiety, worry about the war and real problems in marshalling the resources necessary to fight it effectively.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...084ea43c43ea16

Originally Posted by mapuc

A military clashes between Wagner and ordinary Russian army will only end with one winner..........Ukraine.

So lets hope it happens.

Lets hope it spread into motherland Russia.

Markus

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Disciplined and calm, to await the appearance of disorder and hubbub amongst the enemy:—this is the art of retaining self-possession.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has been informed of the recent developments regarding Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin. So says Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov. According to Peskov, "all necessary measures are being taken".

Meanwhile, in a new announcement, Prigozhin reported that "this is not a coup, but a march of justice".

Meanwhile, numerous rumours are circulating on Russian social media channels. For instance, Prigozhin is said to have been placed on the list of foreign agents by the Russian defence ministry. The Russian National Guard is also said to have been placed on heightened alert. However, these reports could not be independently verified.

Russian state news agency TASS says the National Anti-Terrorism Committee is calling for WagnerÂ’s Prigozhin to "cease illegal actions" and has opened a case on charges of "calling for an armed uprising"

Originally Posted by mapuc

^ Came to think on Napoleon who should have said

Do not interrupt your enemies while they are making mistakes.

Edit
Some hours ago Russia attacked Wagner and now some 10 minutes ago:



https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...29674729373696

End edit

Markus

Let's not interfere. Let's just watch them, said the peeper

Originally Posted by mapuc

^ Came to think on Napoleon who should have said

Do not interrupt your enemies while they are making mistakes.

Edit
Some hours ago Russia attacked Wagner and now some 10 minutes ago:



https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...29674729373696

End edit

Markus

Prigozhin has just announced that after the attacks on his men by the Ministry of Defence, Wagner will clean house, punishing those responsible. He says they will kill anyone that gets in their way and restore justice to the army and all of Russia. Prigozhin says that 25,000 of his men are on a mission to take on the Russian Ministry of Defense and to restore justice, but says this is not a military coup and the actions of Wagner will not affect Russian troops. He says anyone can join them on their justice crusade. Prigozhin accuses Russian defense minister Shoigu of coming to Rostov-on-Don to oversee a military operation that was supposed to destroy PMC Wagner and that the helicopter pilots and artillerymen who were involved were kept in the dark about the real target of the operation.

Now #Strelkov is broadcasting Swan Lake to his almost 1 million Telegram followers:

"Internal turmoil is now capable of leading to a military catastrophe" https://twitter.com/jason_corcoran/s...30066880020487



Ukrainian "Bakhmut Demon" ��:

"The leftovers of Wagners on the outskirts of Bakhmut opened fire on the regular roads of the Russian Federation.

Our assault brigades see everything, systematic strikes are now being carried out on the positions of the Russians.

You would hear the radio broadcast of these *** now.

The impression is that part of the Russian regular troops are killing their own, and it seems that part of the military is supporting Prigozhin. While it is not clear what is finally happening, it is a bloodbath" https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...29674729373696

Russian telegram channel Archangel: "All units of the Special Forces of Moscow and the region are on alert" https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1672328678552813568

Girkin - "Let's hope...":

"In Rostov, all the security forces have been put on high alert, but so far everything is quiet. Let's hope that Prigozhin announced a coup, but Wagner themselves do not intend to participate in it." https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...28816528703491

I just spoke to someone with contacts inside Wagner - he confirmed that this wasn't theater, and that Prigozhin is making a move. "It's not clear exactly what's happening right now, but it's not nothing." https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/statu...39254335221761

Originally Posted by Skybird

Toast in the making.

Wagner Group fighters have been saying goodbye to their relatives over the past 24 hours and telling them to watch the TV news, which suggests that they may have had advance notice of today's dramatic events with Yevgeny Prigozhin. Verstka reports that worried relatives are saying in Wagner-related chat rooms that their loved ones have "called and said goodbye" in the last 24 hours, and told them to watch for "what [TV channel] Rossiya 24 has to say". Chat participant Elena Kigeleva says: "Yesterday many guys called and 'conditionally' said goodbye. Many said watch the news." Multiple participants say they can't reach their Wagner men. "My husband is still out of touch abruptly, always writing to give us a live stream , but today it's like this," one of them wrote. "Usually it is always a short call at 7-8 [pm], but today it is silent. I pray it's all a joke. I have no strength anymore." Relatives are worried what will happen to their men. "Our men will soon be recognised as terrorists," one user says. "So they really think someone's going to be able to reach Moscow and what? Storm the Kremlin?" "****, it's the planet of the pink ponies [i.e. nonsense]," responded another member of the chat room.

Others have advised not panicking and waiting for official statements. "Watching Rossiya 24, there's silence," a user nicknamed Yelena says. https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/stat...38798691115009

But yeah he is toasts if not this will help Ukraine Russia have now a choice where to send resources will be hard to control certainly who can you trust that will not side with Wagner troops at the fronts are mistreated and suffer deceases (there are reports of an outbreak of cholera on the fronts) they are not gone to fight for Putin other option is internal security forces but what we have seen with the raids in Belegrod that went horrible wrong so problem

Smile the Russians are killing each other.

Originally Posted by Skybird

I said the toast is being prepared, but I did not say whose bread it is that will get toasted. I dare no prediction.

Oh no prediction, it was Wagner that took Bakmut Russian army now only losses in that area. The tinder is there, the only question is who sets it on fire, I hope it was today.

Originally Posted by Skybird

I just red that Prigozhin is bow accused of armed mutiny and the FSB now moves against him.

Yes and Russian spetsnaz is raiding the Wagner Center in downtown Saint Petersburg right now.
IÂ’m beginning to think that giving a psychopath his own private army of criminals was not a good idea. https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/st...52361161924608



"Fortress" plan has been announced in a number of police departments of Rostov region - Russian media.

UPD. Russian media report that "Fortress" has also been activated in Moscow.

Employees are in alert mode. Whether the alert is academic and what are its causes will be determined. The "Fortress" plan implies an emergency gathering of personnel and taking under control the most important facilities of law enforcement agencies. The plan also provides for readiness to repel an external attack. https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/...39766904274947

A Special Military Operation appears to be underway in Russia. Moscow in three days?

Note: Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu fled Rostov region 2 hours ago.

Originally Posted by mapuc

Hmm going to be a short military war between Wagner and Russia if there isn't any Russian general who decide to stand together with the leader of Wagner.

I doubt it.

However a military clashes in Ukraine would fit the Ukrainian army very well.

Markus

There are reports troops in Russian army applaud Wagner actions, so who knows what will happen

Originally Posted by mapuc

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/statu...52313091178496

Markus

Armored vehicles on the streets of Moscow and Ruston on Don this is not just PrigozhinÂ’s bla bla on Telegram, it looks more and more like a civil war situation. Russian generals calling for a "halt" show the highest degree of panic and utter helplessness.

Wagner Telegram channel:

"Wagner PMC commanders remain loyal to the most promising politician and will follow any order he gives them. Neither the Federal Security Service nor Surovikin will be able to stop what has begun." https://twitter.com/i/lists/1378399759992512516

The Russian military is deploying troops, including special forces in Moscow and barricading the center of the city as it prepares for what looks more and more like a coup. https://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/s...59808656080897

The addresses of Surovikin and deputy head of Russian intelligence department were filmed in front of a suspiciously similar backgrounds. They look like they've been arrested. https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/...67509557719044

Originally Posted by Skybird

The US and German mainstream media I scan only say Prigozhin is being investigated over charges of armed mutiny. No word on him getting assistance from rvoltuin Russian army units.



He has cooked the last meal for Putin, so much is certain. My impression is he is isolated. But media reports may not be giving the complete picture.

If he is isolated, why is Moscow and other regions on high alert there are military vehicles in the streets I think this is happening if he succeeds is another thing. There is too much chatter on the back channels, the whole situation in Russia is panic.

If Prigozhin is truly doing a coup, he will try to take control of Rostov on Don.

Controlling Rostov = cutting off the main supply line to the entire russian army in Ukraine = the army is then Prigozhin's hostage.

When fighting erupts in Rostov - the russian civil war has begun https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1672364607405453313

Originally Posted by Catfish

"@DarthPutinKGB
IÂ’m beginning to think that giving a psychopath his own private army of criminals was not a good idea."

This will be a long night for Russia.

But whatever comes of the situation, Prigozhin said he will continue the war when all has been "finished".
No russian in charge or on TV has said anything about the war being wrong, or to stop it, they just quarrel about the way the war is being fought.
So regardless who "wins" the war may go on –

Correct in the meantime the factions fight among each other Ukraine can take advance of that and break through.

[mapuc]

A military clashes between Wagner and ordinary Russian army will only end with one winner..........Ukraine.

So lets hope it happens.

Lets hope it spread into motherland Russia.

Markus

[mapuc]

^ Came to think on Napoleon who should have said

Do not interrupt your enemies while they are making mistakes.

Edit
Some hours ago Russia attacked Wagner and now some 10 minutes ago:

"The leftovers of Wagners on the outskirts of Bakhmut opened fire on the regular roads of the Russian Federation.

Our assault brigades see everything, systematic strikes are now being carried out on the positions of the Russians.

You would hear the radio broadcast of these *** now.

The impression is that part of the Russian regular troops are killing their own, and it seems that part of the military is supporting Prigozhin. While it is not clear what is finally happening, it is a bloodbath"

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...29674729373696

End edit

Markus

[Skybird]

Toast in the making.

[mapuc]

https://twitter.com/saintjavelin/sta...15417115631635

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dargo

Wagner Group fighters have been saying goodbye to their relatives over the past 24 hours and telling them to watch the TV news, which suggests that they may have had advance notice of today's dramatic events with Yevgeny Prigozhin. Verstka reports that worried relatives are saying in Wagner-related chat rooms that their loved ones have "called and said goodbye" in the last 24 hours, and told them to watch for "what [TV channel] Rossiya 24 has to say". Chat participant Elena Kigeleva says: "Yesterday many guys called and 'conditionally' said goodbye. Many said watch the news." Multiple participants say they can't reach their Wagner men. "My husband is still out of touch abruptly, always writing to give us a live stream , but today it's like this," one of them wrote. "Usually it is always a short call at 7-8 [pm], but today it is silent. I pray it's all a joke. I have no strength anymore." Relatives are worried what will happen to their men. "Our men will soon be recognised as terrorists," one user says. "So they really think someone's going to be able to reach Moscow and what? Storm the Kremlin?" "****, it's the planet of the pink ponies [i.e. nonsense]," responded another member of the chat room.

Others have advised not panicking and waiting for official statements. "Watching Rossiya 24, there's silence," a user nicknamed Yelena says. https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/stat...38798691115009

But yeah he is toasts if not this will help Ukraine Russia have now a choice where to send resources will be hard to control certainly who can you trust that will not side with Wagner troops at the fronts are mistreated and suffer deceases (there are reports of an outbreak of cholera on the fronts) they are not gone to fight for Putin other option is internal security forces but what we have seen with the raids in Belegrod that went horrible wrong so problem

I said the toast is being prepared, but I did not say whose bread it is that will get toasted. I dare no prediction.

[Skybird]

I just red that Prigozhin is bow accused of armed mutiny and the FSB now moves against him.

[mapuc]

Hmm going to be a short military war between Wagner and Russia if there isn't any Russian general who decide to stand together with the leader of Wagner.

I doubt it.

However a military clashes in Ukraine would fit the Ukrainian army very well.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Day 3: Kyiv shall be captured

Day 484: Putin’s Chef attempts to take the Kremlin.

[mapuc]

I’m not worried about this coup. Given how long it took Wagner to get Bakhmut they’ll not get to Moscow before 2049.

https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/st...50764318990338

Markus

[mapuc]

Special Operations Forces (SSO) commanded by Major General Valery Flustikov have taken over control of the Ministry of Defence headquarters on Frunzenskaya in Moscow. Right now, there's no way of knowing whose side he is really on: Shoigu or Prigozhin. Probably "wait & see."

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/statu...52313091178496

Markus

[mapuc]

Who control the nukes ?

Could an exchange of nukes be a possibility if it turn into a full blown civil war ?

Markus