[REL] RFB/Real Fleet Boat for 1.5

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

It doesn't matter if I fire torpedo against sampan because in stock SH4 this artifact doesn't happen. Simply hit sampan sinks as one should. Therefore this funny bug is found only in RFB mod.

This not a bug but rather a change in the way the torpedo explosions move the ships when they detonate. By default, they "suck" the ship down in the water; this is changed to work the opposite way in RFB (and other mods like NSM). As for this happening with sampans...well, that's just life. No submarine captain, no matter how proficient (or incompetent) he was, would fire a torpedo at a target like this.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

I would also like to know what types of stock upgrades are available in RFB mod. I am especially interested in accessibility of the following devices:

US Navy subs:

- radars: SD, SD-a, SV, SJ, SJ-1 -> It seems that ST model is missing.

- sonars: WCA, JP-1 -> Has JT-1 model been removed?

U-boats:

- radars: FuMO-29, FuMO-30, FuMO-61, FuMO-65 -> Is snorkel mounted FuMO-391 also present in RFB mod?

- radar warning receivers: FUMB-1, FuMB-7, FUMB-10, FUMB-36

- passive sonars: GHG, KDB, Balkongerat

Going off my memory here, since I'm not at my home computer (thank you, National Guard )

-SD: December 1941, though the renown value is very high, since it was not very common
-SD-a: June 1942 (for fleet subs); June 1943 (for the S-42; S-18s do not have access to SD-a (or SD, for that matter)
-SJ: July 1942 (for fleet boats); November 1942 (for the S-18); June 1943 (for the S-42)
-SJ-1: August 1943 (fleet boats); October 1943 (S-18 and S-42)
-SV: July 1945
-ST is in the game files but does not work
-WCA is fitted to all boats from the beginning of the war
-JP-1: July 1943
-JT is not modeled

In general, the U-boat radar sets and radar detectors follow their real historical timeline (don't recall any of the dates right now). Snorkel-mounted radar isn't modeled.

GHG is available from the war's beginning. KDB is available some time afterwards but is discontinued some time in 1942, IIRC (it was ordered to be removed by the Kriegsmarine, because it gave unsatisfactory performance as compared to GHG). Balkongerät is modeled from 1944, as I recall.

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

-SD: December 1941, though the renown value is very high, since it was not very common
-SD-a: June 1942 (for fleet subs); June 1943 (for the S-42; S-18s do not have access to SD-a (or SD, for that matter)

Is it true above radars cannot detect surface targets and cannot get bearing and range to aerial targets at all?

Originally Posted by LukeFF

-SJ: July 1942 (for fleet boats); November 1942 (for the S-18); June 1943 (for the S-42)
-SJ-1: August 1943 (fleet boats); October 1943 (S-18 and S-42)

OK, that is clear.

Originally Posted by LukeFF

-SV: July 1945

Is SV model accessible in the stock game or RFB mod before war's end?

-ST is in the game files but does not work

It is periscope ranging radar and thus not surprising it is not present in the game.

Originally Posted by LukeFF

-WCA is fitted to all boats from the beginning of the war
-JP-1: July 1943

Clear!

Originally Posted by LukeFF

-JT is not modeled

Not modelled in RFB or in both stock SH4 and RFB?

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Snorkel-mounted radar isn't modeled.

Good! Only type XXI and a few VIIC subs had it.

Originally Posted by LukeFF

GHG is available from the war's beginning. KDB is available some time afterwards but is discontinued some time in 1942, IIRC (it was ordered to be removed by the Kriegsmarine, because it gave unsatisfactory performance as compared to GHG). Balkongerät is modeled from 1944, as I recall.

So KDB sonar isn't modelled in RFB mod?

[RFB Team]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

Is it true above radars cannot detect surface targets and cannot get bearing and range to aerial targets at all?

Correct. In reality SD radar could not determine the bearing to a target (though it could determine range). However, the game does not allow for this, since it uses one "radar contact report" message for all types.

Is SV model accessible in the stock game or RFB mod before war's end?

Yes, both.

It is periscope ranging radar and thus not surprising it is not present in the game.

It was quite handy to have and would be perfectly valid to have it working in the game. Like many other things the devs didn't have time to finish modeling it.

Not modelled in RFB or in both stock SH4 and RFB?

JT is not modeled at all in the game, stock or modified.

So KDB sonar isn't modelled in RFB mod?

KDB sonar is modeled. It's just that it's not available past a certain date.

[Fearless]

Is it possible to place the latest RFB 1.5 download on http://www.megaupload.com/ as I now have UBM but my internet at home doesn't work and work restricts access to filefront.

This would be greatly appreciated.

[Gorshkov]

OK! Thanks to your explanations, RFB Team, I have now a clear upgrades tree picture:

US subs:

- air search radars: SD -> SD-a -> SV
- surface search radars: SJ -> SJ-1
- sonars: WCA -> JP-1

U-boats:

- radars: FuMO-29 -> 30 -> 61 -> 65 (type XVIII only)
- RWR: Metox -> Borkum -> Naxos -> Tunis
- sonars: GHG -> KDB -> Balkongerat

Please confirm all above is correct and answer a few more questions:

- Does SV radar replace both SJ and SD radars as universal, directional air and surface search device?

- Can all German radars detect air and surface contacts?

- Can Tunis RWR be carried by type XVIII sub only?

- Did you change stock radar, sonar, RWR parameters, especially detection range?

[swdw]

Originally Posted by Fearless

Is it possible to place the latest RFB 1.5 download on http://www.megaupload.com/ as I now have UBM but my internet at home doesn't work and work restricts access to filefront.

This would be greatly appreciated.

Dropping in after a long absence, I'll upload it to another location tonight or tomorrow

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

OK! Thanks to your explanations, RFB Team, I have now a clear upgrades tree picture:

US subs:

- air search radars: SD -> SD-a -> SV
- surface search radars: SJ -> SJ-1
- sonars: WCA -> JP-1

U-boats:

- radars: FuMO-29 -> 30 -> 61 -> 65 (type XVIII only)
- RWR: Metox -> Borkum -> Naxos -> Tunis
- sonars: GHG -> KDB -> Balkongerat

Please confirm all above is correct

Just to expand on that a little bit:

-WCA Sonar is always installed (it's a combination active/passive sonar system). What happens is the passive component is "replaced" by JP-1, thus increasing your max listening range. The max range of active sonar never changes (5000 yards).

-GHG is always the default sonar system for German boats (IIRC; I'm still away from my home PC). KDB becomes an option for a time and then goes away after the Kriegsmarine banned its use. The only advantage it has over GHG is a wider listening arc.

- Does SV radar replace both SJ and SD radars as universal, directional air and surface search device?

SV just replaces SD radar. While SV could pick up surface contacts, it could not see these contacts as far as SJ-1. The primary advantages of SV were that it could pick up the bearing of an aircraft contact, and it could pick up low-flying contacts the SD could not see. SS radar was the replacement for SJ-1 and was developed during the war, but it was not installed on any boats before the war ended.

- Can all German radars detect air and surface contacts?

AKAIK, yes.

- Can Tunis RWR be carried by type XVIII sub only?

I believe that's the case.

- Did you change stock radar, sonar, RWR parameters, especially detection range?

Yes, they were all modified quite a bit.

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

-WCA Sonar is always installed (it's a combination active/passive sonar system). What happens is the passive component is "replaced" by JP-1, thus increasing your max listening range. The max range of active sonar never changes (5000 yards).

OK, now it is clear to me. Simply sub fitted with JP-1 model has greater passive sonar range (13000 yd instead of 9000 yd).

Originally Posted by LukeFF

-GHG is always the default sonar system for German boats (IIRC; I'm still away from my home PC). KDB becomes an option for a time and then goes away after the Kriegsmarine banned its use. The only advantage it has over GHG is a wider listening arc.

Clear! So true next generation German passive sonar was Balkongerat. In my opinion GHG is not worth replacing by KDB in the game. The latter has no surface listening capability.

Originally Posted by LukeFF

SV just replaces SD radar. While SV could pick up surface contacts, it could not see these contacts as far as SJ-1. The primary advantages of SV were that it could pick up the bearing of an aircraft contact, and it could pick up low-flying contacts the SD could not see. SS radar was the replacement for SJ-1 and was developed during the war, but it was not installed on any boats before the war ended.

So SV and SJ radars combo acts in similar way as WCA and JP sonars mix. In short, US sub equipped with SD and SJ radars can detect on PPI/A-scopes both aerial and surface targets. Am I right?

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Yes, they were all modified quite a bit.

Will you give me brief differences over stock game in sonar and radar detection ranges introduced in RFB mod if you manage to return safe home from NG's Aliens hunt in Gunnison, CO?

[swdw]

Originally Posted by Fearless

Is it possible to place the latest RFB 1.5 download on http://www.megaupload.com/ as I now have UBM but my internet at home doesn't work and work restricts access to filefront.

This would be greatly appreciated.

Megaupload did not support the file size needed.
Try this link:
http://www.filefactory.com/file/d797..._51_062308_rar

Have it uploading to badongo.com too.

[COWBOY10]

Hey Guys, 1st off let me say Thankyou for such a great Mod, Have just lost all day in Sh4 and enjoyed every min of it, Though now in dog house with the wife

Just one question though and I hope you may be able to answer, On the last patrol I just did I came across a jap Merchant, Fired 4 torps and luckly all hit and exploded, However when looking at the ship closer I noticed that there was only one damage texture on the hull, I'm sure all torps hit in a different place. I think I remember this being a problem sometimes on stock, but was wondering if Damage textures had been changed with this mod or if I am still having to use stock damage,

Hope you can understand this garbled message.
Heads not working straight at the mo.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by COWBOY10

Hey Guys, 1st off let me say Thankyou for such a great Mod, Have just lost all day in Sh4 and enjoyed every min of it, Though now in dog house with the wife

Just one question though and I hope you may be able to answer, On the last patrol I just did I came across a jap Merchant, Fired 4 torps and luckly all hit and exploded, However when looking at the ship closer I noticed that there was only one damage texture on the hull, I'm sure all torps hit in a different place. I think I remember this being a problem sometimes on stock, but was wondering if Damage textures had been changed with this mod or if I am still having to use stock damage,

Hope you can understand this garbled message.
Heads not working straight at the mo.

That texture is stock. None of the files have been looked at for this particular texture or what even generates it for that matter. Sometimes it does not show up at all. Oh well, nice to get at least one textured hole I guess. Glad you like the mod. There is a lot more coming down the lane for RFB.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

So SV and SJ radars combo acts in similar way as WCA and JP sonars mix. In short, US sub equipped with SD and SJ radars can detect on PPI/A-scopes both aerial and surface targets. Am I right?

The scopes in the conning tower are for SJ radar only. The SV and SD radar scopes are manned by the AI. If we had scopes modeled for them, they would be located in the control room. In short, if your radarman calls out a radar contact and you can't see it on the radar scopes, it's an air contact.

Will you give me brief differences over stock game in sonar and radar detection ranges introduced in RFB mod if you manage to return safe home from NG's Aliens hunt in Gunnison, CO?

In short, the radar and sonar values come from these sources:

-Radar Operator's Manual at HNSA.org
-Various sections of the Fleet Type Submarine Manual at maritime.org
-USS Cobia website
-Uboat.net
-Uboat Aces website
-US Submarines Through 1945, by Norman Friedman
-The U-Boat: The Evolution and Technical History of German Submarines, by Eberhard Rossler.

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

The scopes in the conning tower are for SJ radar only. The SV and SD radar scopes are manned by the AI. If we had scopes modeled for them, they would be located in the control room. In short, if your radarman calls out a radar contact and you can't see it on the radar scopes, it's an air contact.

It is not exactly as in reality!

If omni-directional SD radar should be manned by AI because nothing can be displayed on radar scope I don't believe this with respect to SD model. In fact, SV radar was interconnected with surface radar scopes and could send aerial targets range and bearing data there. Look at this:

http://www.maritime.org/radio-sv.htm

Besides: Does AI radarman tell you range and bearing to aircraft if sub is fitted with SV radar?

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

It is not exactly as in reality!

If omni-directional SD radar should be manned by AI because nothing can be displayed on radar scope I don't believe this with respect to SD model. In fact, SV radar was interconnected with surface radar scopes and could send aerial targets range and bearing data there. Look at this:

http://www.maritime.org/radio-sv.htm

Let me explain it better: due to limitations in the game's coding, there is only one radar display modeled in 3D, which for the fleet boats means the SJ radar. Since SJ picks up only surface contacts (unless the target is flying really low), contacts seen on this screen are almost always surface contacts. Now, the game does model the air search radar separately. However, the radar scopes, whether they are for SV or SD, are not modeled, hence what I mean when I say they are modeled by the AI only. When the radarman calls out a radar contact, it's up to the player to decide whether it's a SV/SD or an SJ contact, due to the way the game is coded. Try it out: set up a single mission where your boat has both SD and SJ radar installed. Have an aircraft fly within the range of your SD radar. Go to the PPI screen when the radarman calls out the contact, and you will not see a blip on the screen.

Besides: Does AI radarman tell you range and bearing to aircraft if sub is fitted with SV radar?

The radarman will report the range and bearing of any radar contact, no matter if it's an air or surface contact. This is in conflict with reality, since SD radar could not report the bearing of a target.