Europe's migrant problem

[Skybird]

The EU is a hypocrite. It laments endlessly about human rights - and looks away when pushbacks at borders occur, since these in fact are highly welcomed. Many EUcrats have very well understood that they cannot let all these masses of foreigners in, but still they endlessly moralise about how necessarily it is to do right this. At home, when nobody sees them, they sigh in relief that some states keep the borders guarded and push the foreign masses back.

Its necessary to confront the stupid Zeitgeist and talk the talk where the deed already is: stop moralising and lecturing others how bad they are if they protect the borders, but saying loud and clear that this is what masses of foreign migrants - that want to blackmail European states with their sheer numbers and their mere presence - have to expect: that they will not be let in, no matter what.

"We are too many."

Belarus has lowered prices for air tickets by which migrants can fly towards the Polish border. Lukashenko has established an airline just to amass migrants in as huge numbers as possible at the border. The Polish speak of hybrid warfare. And they are right. Demography and migration are weapons of hybrid warfare. I say this since years.

And nobody has put in words what this actually implies. It means that Belarus already has declared and is waging war against several NATO members, and the EU.

Lets lower the iron curtain again. Stop forcing together what does not work well together. It makes no sense to state a border - and then not enforce it. Its a contradiction in itself.

[Kapitan]

If the EU doesn't do something as a collective then faith in the EU will diminish, not only that on the international stage it will bee seen as a weak union.
The current covid debacle with vaccine roll out etc with the EU and now immigration crisis in many countries will ultimately lead to the far right gaining traction and support.

I have seen this in Denmark and Sweden as far back as 2016, to be honest a lot of ordinary people are getting very annoyed and switching from traditional central parties or left of central to more extreme parties on the right.

Don't forget it was Sweden that really took the first stand against the EU by announcing it would deport up to 80,000 migrants, Finland followed with up to 32,000.
In both countries at the time there was high anti EU sentiment going around this issue is a hot potato.

Sweden also suspended its membership of the Schengen area because of this issue along with terrorism, its why now you have to show ID or passport on the border, I do foresee other countries following suit if they haven't already.

[snak3gam3r!]

The Eu is never quick about making any decision and springing into action. It's sad because there are things in this world that require decisiveness so things can get done.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

If the EU doesn't do something as a collective then faith in the EU will diminish, not only that on the international stage it will bee seen as a weak union.
The current covid debacle with vaccine roll out etc with the EU and now immigration crisis in many countries will ultimately lead to the far right gaining traction and support.

I have seen this in Denmark and Sweden as far back as 2016, to be honest a lot of ordinary people are getting very annoyed and switching from traditional central parties or left of central to more extreme parties on the right.

Don't forget it was Sweden that really took the first stand against the EU by announcing it would deport up to 80,000 migrants, Finland followed with up to 32,000.
In both countries at the time there was high anti EU sentiment going around this issue is a hot potato.

Sweden also suspended its membership of the Schengen area because of this issue along with terrorism, its why now you have to show ID or passport on the border, I do foresee other countries following suit if they haven't already.

Made a search in Swedish to see if Sweden had left Schengen and according to page I entered they haven't

About these 80,000 migrants Sweden wanted to deport has come to a standstill. In a Swedish news article from 2017 it says.

The work of deporting people from Sweden who have had their asylum application finally rejected has come to a standstill. There are no detention centers available to put people in, who have been taken into custody by the police while waiting for the deportation to take place. Therefore, the work of caring for people for deportation has in practice ceased. Police officers who are to work with this, ie track down and take care of people for deportation, are allowed to sit and roll their thumbs in the office instead, according to sources at the police who I spoke to recently.

The rest of the article is about the Swedish election in 2018.

Markus

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Made a search in Swedish to see if Sweden had left Schengen and according to page I entered they haven't

About these 80,000 migrants Sweden wanted to deport has come to a standpoint. In a Swedish news article from 2017 it says.



The rest of the article is about the Swedish election in 2018.

Markus

I know they have suspended Schengen conditions as far back as 2016 even have a picture at the rail station notice board which threw me at the time, I used to get the Oerstadt across. ( this is from 2016 https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-from-denmark )

I used to spend a lot of time in Copenhagen and go for lunch or dinner in Sweden Malmo usually (Texas long horn)

While i think they remain party to the treaty they have introduced border controls between EU to EU countries (Sweden) which in my mind basically renders the agreement dead.

As for the migrants i know they did deport around 16,000 if i remember the news papers correctly.

[mapuc]

Aha the condition I thought they had suspended their membership.

Denmark has done the same-imposed Id/passport check at the German Danish border.

You are correct Sweden had planned on deport 80,000 and still have.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

The UK is no longer in the EU and look at the waves of uninvited we see coming every day.

I wonder which country they leave from

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

The UK is no longer in the EU and look at the waves of uninvited we see coming every day.

I wonder which country they leave from

In the words of Exocet

Pfedre Albion

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

The UK is no longer in the EU and look at the waves of uninvited we see coming every day.

I wonder which country they leave from

Jim I know we have an immigration/refugee thread. I wanted to post my first comment in this thread. I couldn't find it I looked closely through all 4 page. That's why I wrote "Belongs to our immigration thread" in the headline ´cause I hoped you would merge this with the immigration thread

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

In the words of Exocet

Pfedre Albion

Rgr that and in actual fact the saying originates from Italy so they can't even get that right

The Italian term " perfida Albione " (perfidious Albion) was used in the propaganda of Fascist Italy to criticise the global dominion of the British Empire. Fascist propaganda depicted the British as ruthless colonialists, who exploited foreign lands and peoples to feed extravagant lifestyle habits like eating "five meals a day".

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Jim I know we have an immigration/refugee thread. I wanted to post my first comment in this thread. I couldn't find it I looked closely through all 4 page. That's why I wrote "Belongs to our immigration thread" in the headline ´cause I hoped you would merge this with the immigration thread

Markus

You would need to point me to the specific thread you are referring to Markus because there are at least a dozen threads on the forum with 'immigrant' in the thread title.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

You would need to point me to the specific thread you are referring to Markus because there are at least a dozen threads on the forum with 'immigrant' in the thread title.

Made a search in our search area couldn't find it. This thread I'm thinking about has several pages more than 30. Last time it was active, was during the great refugee escape in 2015/16.

It has also the word refugees in the title. If I only could remember who made it.

Edit
Made another search this time using only the word immigration and search entire post
I found this thread by our Uncle Neal

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=221753

Because it is an European problem

it's up to you if we shall merge this thread with Neal's or rewrite the title of this thread-You may call it what you want
End edit

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Threads merged.

[mapuc]

Found this English article from BBC.

How Belarus is helping ‘tourists’ break into the EU

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58952867

If this is true-Poland and other countries who has a border with Belarus, has every right to throw these immigrants back into Belarus. They are NOT refugees or immigrant.

Markus

[Skybird]

Christian Ortner (Austria) writes in his blog:

While on the border between Poland and Belarus thousands of “protection-seekers” attacked the border fence with bolt cutters, heavy pliers and saws and partially tore it down, the EU reacted exactly as was to be expected. Council President Charles Michel traveled to Warsaw to demonstrate the EU's solidarity with Poland; which in reality is a kind of political balloon without a cover. At almost the same time, Manfred Weber, head of the Christian Democratic parliamentary group in the EU Parliament, demanded that the EU take part in the financing of border fortifications; the EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, on the other hand, strictly refused to do just that. And even on the small but not unimportant question of which people, companies and institutions the EU will impose further sanctions on, there is little agreement, after all it is about values, i.e. money.

Those with such allies have serious cause for concern. Or as US General George S. Patton once smugly remarked at the end of the Second World War: “I would rather have an SS Panzer Division in front of me than one of our French allies at my side.” Today, “French” can be replaced with “European”. Before Europe can agree on whether and how it will defend its external border against a violent attack from Belarusian territory, it must first be clarified which CO2 emissions are associated with the establishment of border barriers, and whether the instructions for the border guards are written in gender-sensitive language and sufficient diversity of staff is ensured. Those are our primary concerns.

Unfortunately, however, a much larger, more threatening problem becomes visible here in outline: Europe is increasingly facing geopolitical antagonists such as China and Russia, but also Turkey and Iran, who are completely freed from ethical or even just international legal restrictions and concerns and permanently test where they can cross what limits at what cost. And when they come to the conclusion that the benefits are worth the price, they sometimes act accordingly militarily.

Russia's annexation of Crimea and the partial occupation of eastern Ukraine were examples of this, as was China's de facto annexation of Hong Kong. Taiwan could follow; and the eastern border of the EU is not as safe as some dreamers believe. It is not just about “global political capability” (quote from ex-EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker), the worm sits deeper. After all, as an understandable reaction to the world war, the EU was founded as a peace project; pacifism is in its bones, and it is even less capable of military conflict than it is for world politics; neither institutionally nor mentally.

That is incredibly likeable, but unfortunately not a very promising strategy in a world that is prone to violence and violent all around. As long as the Europeans do not understand this - and above all draw the consequences from it - the villains will prevail.

https://www.ortneronline.at/das-pazi...adoxon-der-eu/