Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dargo

Prigozhin does not attack Putin directly Putin is dividing responsibility between the rival factions in his military Prigozhin outbursts are part of a long-running spat between Prigozhin and Russia’s top military. Wagner remains important to Putin Ukrainian military officials say that the group’s units are among their enemy’s most effective, not least because of their willingness to sacrifice men.

He undermines the authority of Putin's minions Shoigu and Gerasimov and the whole army apparatus, and that is enough.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Skybird

He undermines the authority of Putin's minions Shoigu and Gerasimov and the whole army apparatus, and that is enough.

Oh Putin does not care for their authority we will see them getting blamed for this whole invasion in the near future so that Putin can save his ass back home a Russian leader never fails or is to blame always others are the ones that pay for the mistakes of the leader.

[Dargo]

Ukrainian commander says Wagner fighters "ran away" from Bakhmut first, countering claims made by mercenary chief

he Ukrainian commander of a battalion involved in the country's attack on Russian positions near Bakhmut this week has told CNN the first Russians to abandon the area were Wagner fighters, contradicting claims by the mercenary group's chief that regular Russian troops initially fled the battleground in eastern Ukraine.

The commander of the First Battalion of the 3rd Assault Brigade, whose call-sign is Rollo, told a CNN team in eastern Ukraine that while Wagner units left their station southwest of the city of Bakhmut, the troops of the Russian army’s 72nd Brigade stayed and fought.

His remarks contradict those of Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin, who accused the 72nd Brigade of deserting their positions.

At one point, Rollo said, Kyiv's forces used powerful HIMARS rockets against Russian infantry, who were gathering to reinforce positions. HIMARS rockets, provided by the United States, are normally used on more long-range targets such as ammunition depots and have a reputation for pinpoint accuracy.

Rollo added that the Russian soldiers only capitulated after being surrounded. “We spent two hours trying to persuade them to surrender."

He said Prigozhin wanted to blame the Russian army for the failure, but they were good soldiers and fought hard. Prigozhin was a liar, he added.

Much of the fighting occurred in close quarters, and sometimes the enemy was just 20 meters away, according to Rollo.

Rollo commented that at least 200 to 300 Russian soldiers were killed and it may have been more.

CNN was not on the ground in Bakhmut to independently verify the death toll.

Some background: Prigozhin accused Moscow's troops of "abandoning their positions" in front-line Bakhmut, laying bare deep fissures between the Wagner head and the Kremlin amid Russia's faltering invasion of Ukraine.

Earlier this week, he said that “one of the units of the Ministry of Defense fled from one of our flanks, abandoning their positions. They all fled and [laid] bare a front nearly 2 kilometers wide and 500 meters deep.”

In comments on Tuesday, Prighozhin claimed the “72nd brigade *******ed up three square kilometers today, on which I had about 500 people killed. Because it was a strategic bridgehead. They just ran the hell out of there.” https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-...3188a22505f70c

[mapuc]

Where did they get these number from !?

I tried to find a reliable source to what one of my friend told me yesterday in a debate we had about the war and that Nato said they should not hurry with their upcoming offensive.

He said that Ukraine had lost around 300.000 soldiers. If this number includes wounded then the number may add up(not sure at all)

There's different type of wounded-Those who can rejoin after a month or so and then there are those who are wounded for life and can't return.

If this number only consist soldiers who has lost their life in line of duty and wounded for life-Then I am sceptic to this number.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

No. I do not believe that for even just a second.

Me neither....targeting at ground level for that distance would not be possible from within the turret and I base this remark on the knowledge of a friend who was a Challenger tank commander only two years ago.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Where did they get these number from !?

I tried to find a reliable source to what one of my friend told me yesterday in a debate we had about the war and that Nato said they should not hurry with their upcoming offensive.

He said that Ukraine had lost around 300.000 soldiers. If this number includes wounded then the number may add up(not sure at all)

There's different type of wounded-Those who can rejoin after a month or so and then there are those who are wounded for life and can't return.

If this number only consist soldiers who has lost their life in line of duty and wounded for life-Then I am sceptic to this number.

Markus

Recent data suggests that prior to the Russian invasion Ukraine had 200,000 troops and reserve forces of 250,000 people.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Where did they get these number from !?

I tried to find a reliable source to what one of my friend told me yesterday in a debate we had about the war and that Nato said they should not hurry with their upcoming offensive.

He said that Ukraine had lost around 300.000 soldiers. If this number includes wounded then the number may add up(not sure at all)

There's different type of wounded-Those who can rejoin after a month or so and then there are those who are wounded for life and can't return.

If this number only consist soldiers who has lost their life in line of duty and wounded for life-Then I am sceptic to this number.

Markus

On the moment, events are happening on the fronts and behind Ukraine can not do other than act on think we will see some encirclement and attacks in the coming days/weeks.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Recent data suggests that prior to the Russian invasion Ukraine had 200,000 troops and reserve forces of 250,000 people.

Plus ten thousands of volunteers from Western Europe and USA.

I seem to have read and heard that there was almost a brigade of foreign legion in Ukraine.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Plus ten thousands of volunteers from Western Europe and USA.

I seem to have read and heard that there was almost a brigade of foreign legion in Ukraine.

Markus

I doubt a definitive number will ever be determined but I highly doubt they have lost 300,000

Not even Russia for that matter.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Plus ten thousands of volunteers from Western Europe and USA.

I seem to have read and heard that there was almost a brigade of foreign legion in Ukraine.

Markus

10,000 of volunteers from Western Europe and USA we would know that would be in every newspaper, that number is not correct. 300,000 is a number that the Russians would claim. This is propaganda from both sides, take it with a grain of salt, we will never know for sure how many died in this war.

[mapuc]

You are so right none of us know the exact number of casualties in the war and I also said so to my friend.

From the news here, is that the number of casualties is high on both side, most on the Russian side.

Back to this upcoming offensive-Saw and heard interesting things in todays program war in Ukraine.

One of the thing that was said-Made me remember what Skybird have been written a few times.

The Russian has digged them self down and are better prepared this time-It will not be an easy ride like it was last summer and autumn.

This was said by some military expert.

Markus

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Dargo

10,000 of volunteers from Western Europe and USA we would know that would be in every newspaper, that number is not correct. 300,000 is a number that the Russians would claim. This is propaganda from both sides, take it with a grain of salt, we will never know for sure how many died in this war.

I made a search and found this:

How many volunteers are in the Ukraine?

20,000 volunteers

One source reports that “some 20,000 volunteers have reported for duty in the Ukrainian armed forces,” wording which implies that these volunteers are on the ground and ready to fight. The Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, however, said that 20,000 volunteers applied to join the International
Legion.
29. jan. 2023

Markus

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

You are so right none of us know the exact number of casualties in the war and I also said so to my friend.

From the news here, is that the number of casualties is high on both side, most on the Russian side.

Back to this upcoming offensive-Saw and heard interesting things in todays program war in Ukraine.

One of the thing that was said-Made me remember what Skybird have been written a few times.

The Russian has digged them self down and are better prepared this time-It will not be an easy ride like it was last summer and autumn.

This was said by some military expert.

Markus

Last year offensive by Ukraine was done by 3 brigades now they have 12 who do you think is better prepared. Russian have digged in, but they still not learned they use the same failed doctrine they can have many trench lines but when you can not man them with enough good high moral personnel they are only graves. Let face it Russian army is/was not ready for this plan A failed, Plan B and plan C will also end in defeat.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dargo

Oh Putin does not care for their authority we will see them getting blamed for this whole invasion in the near future so that Putin can save his ass back home a Russian leader never fails or is to blame always others are the ones that pay for the mistakes of the leader.

Putin acts through his moinions,m they are his polace holders and the specilaist int heir professions. He needs them, he cannot do everything himself. Putting his human tools in doubt like Priggi does, also falls back on him. Schoigu and Gerasimov by now also have their private bill to settle with Priggi the Mouth.

I think you underestimate the amount to which Priggi has compromised his own position and security.
Also, he obviously has ambitions. And too high ambitions never go well with a ruling dictator.

[mapuc]

Shaking my head...you really can't trust these experts.

Has the offensive started or is it only some military operation to pave the way for this because
I got several indication that there something going on the frontline, at Bakhmut, Donetsk and other areas.

(trying to find the twitter status again)

I found this interesting status

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/statu...179265/photo/1

Are Ukraine going for Belgorod ?

Markus