US Politics Thread 2016-2020 - Page 72

Commander Wallace · 02-02-17, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

The tone is hostile, but what happens here does absolutely not compare to other forums, where "snowflake" is even the most friendly term used there, with direct threats to shoot "libtards" at the other side of the spectrum. Someone here also tried to start a witchhunt, but it was the only time afaik.

Imho this is a direct result of Trump; those who stayed under the radar during Obama's socialist dictatorship, are now having a blast. And why should they hold back and act diplomatically, if the new boss does not.

I sometimes log in to other forums just to see what people write there – just to remind me that civilized behaviour and "normal" conduct is not a given anymore, nor is my opinion special or self-evident at all.

Trump sure polarizes, but you have to see that the US population is almost evenly split. And some are obviously pleased about what he does. That a majority defends him, should not be a surprise in an - after all - military forum.

I miss Betonov's posts. There are a lot who left in anger.

There may be some who support trump but we'll see how long that lasts. I think most people were confronted with 2 candidates that they deeply disliked and chose the one the felt they could live with. Trump had dealings and talks with Australia yesterday. Australia has been a valued and staunch ally but by all accounts, Trump steamrolled over him. Trump told Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull how popular he is and how he wowed crowds at his inauguration. Trump's ego trip is going to take everyone on a roller coaster ride sure to make even his staunch supporters retch.

I think in the long run, Trump's lack of decorum and understanding of the International community is going to hurt him if it hasn't already.

Oberon · 02-02-17, 06:10 AM

So, war with China and war with Iran, how about it? Should be a barrel of laughs, right? Take peoples minds off the economy, get a nice boom in fallout shelters. It's good stuff.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...P=share_btn_fb

Skybird · 02-02-17, 06:14 AM

Smart guys try to make these two going to war against each other. We could second-hand sell them Trident for that.

Oberon · 02-02-17, 06:32 AM

Catfish · 02-02-17, 06:34 AM

Next in: Theresa May makes 100 bn pounds weapons deal with China. The economy has never been so bright like after Brexit.
I do not see a weapon deal with China to be of less brisance, than the one with Turkey.

On the other hand... the US debt to China is $1.0493 trillion, as of November 2016. »Ho(n)ni soit qui mal y pense«

Oberon · 02-02-17, 06:39 AM

Well, China already has a big stake in our nuclear industry so arms can't be far behind...although I imagine they already have blueprints of all our weapons and can build them quicker and cheaper than we can anyway!

Castout · 02-02-17, 06:53 AM

My January 11th, 2017 Facebook post.

Global demand has been waning for years. Beijing, in turn, relies on a credit binge to keep production going and its citizens employed. However, this is unsustainable and the associated economic risks have given rise to capital outflow. The ongoing capital flight from China has depreciated the Yuan to worrying level and debt has been ballooning out of control as China's state enterprises borrow money to pay for credit and finance production against the backdrop of a declining global demand. China's massive foreign exchange reserves, however, have eased the pressure on Yuan but China's forex reserves are depleting fast and have gone below the 3-trillion psychological level. When, instead of if China's economic crisis rears its ugly head, capital is expected to flee Asian markets. Countries which rely on China heavily for trade will be severely hit and have their currency depreciated not unlike the 1998 crisis level and perhaps even worse. Global demand has been weak due to the shrinking middle-class in the US and Europe while China is not yet a market economy. The only easy way out for China and the West to solve their economic conundrum is by stoking ultra-nationalistic sentiment of their citizens and instigate a war as war is simply a forced redistribution of influence (political capital and the ability to set and change rules), power (the might to enforce rules and challenge them by force both economically and militarily), and capital (wealth of a nation seen as leverage to political, economic, and military powers of a nation). We may see a big war erupting in Asia in the next 2-5 years as both sides, China and the West, are predisposed to resort to war to assuage their economic malaise. Even more so for China as prolonged deep economic malaise is destabilizing for Beijing. To buy time, a war would make a much-needed distraction and garner political support. A big war may also the one thing that could win Trump's second term in office. This is no joke.

I share Moore's opinion that Trump may not finish his first term. He may either quit or forced to quit. The only thing that would ensure his 2nd term in the office is a big war with China.

02-02-17, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

We may see a big war erupting in Asia in the next 2-5 years as both sides, China and the West, are predisposed to resort to war to assuage their economic malaise.

No. China is far from being able to go to town. What do they want to do? Pray their handful of subs blow up next to a us carrier? And a diesel boat won't win a modern naval war either.

Let's talk again 10 years from now.

Dowly · 02-02-17, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

And a diesel boat won't win a modern naval war either.

Actually, I saw a documentary called Down Periscope! once in which they tested this, and the diesel boat was able to sneak past a modern sub (and I think a bunch of surface vessels) unnoticed.

Onkel Neal · 02-02-17, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

the reason why Subsim seems biased towards trump is simple: Most political sane people left over the years or simply learned that trying to roll rocks uphill is rather futile and stay silent.
I just get dragged back in again and again as well, only to see how futile it is trying to have a debate with people who don't want a debate, let alone find out the truth in the process of a debate, but just want to be right.

So, if everyone agreed with you, they would be politically sane? I see, I never knew opinion worked that way.

I'll say it again and leave it at this: Subsim is not biased to "Trump". Why would it be? Would someone please go through this thread and count the pro/anti posters,please?

There is no moderating direction that punishes people who find Trump distasteful, wrong, or dangerous. Same with anyone who feels Trump is the second coming of Christ. It appears to me the biggest complaining is coming from people who cannot get everyone else to endorse their worldview. And people are moderated when they cannot argue or discuss without losing their cool and making threats or violent personal attacks.

Castout · 02-02-17, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

No. China is far from being able to go to town. What do they want to do? Pray their handful of subs blow up next to a us carrier? And a diesel boat won't win a modern naval war either.

Let's talk again 10 years from now.

By 2020 their navy will be much stronger than it is now.

In politics, countries often don't go to war only when they have overwhelming capacity to win it.

True that if war erupts now China has no way of winning a war at sea. But in 2019/2020 and beyond the temptation plus the added domestic instability brought upon by a sputtering economy and the non-existence of any way for the Chinese people to change their government could push Beijing to start a war. Most probably in East China Sea or pertaining to Taiwan.

Jimbuna · 02-02-17, 07:39 AM

Let me add....everyone is entitled to their opinions and viewpoints. Moderation only comes into play when a clearly identifiable breach of the rules (fully explained and linked to up at the top of the page for everyone to read should they feel the need) takes place.

The most common examples being name calling and the exchange of insults.

Castout · 02-02-17, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

Actually, I saw a documentary called Down Periscope! once in which they tested this, and the diesel boat was able to sneak past a modern sub (and I think a bunch of surface vessels) unnoticed.

A diesel boat is a dangerous foe. Australian Collins class sub successfully sank its practice target past American ASW vessels in a relatively recent wargame.

An Indian Kilo class sub reportedly successfully 'sank' U.S. 688i Sub in a wargame in 2015...

02-02-17, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

So, if everyone agreed with you, they would be politically sane? I see, I never knew opinion worked that way.

Not what I said at all. But I do say whoever still supports trump is definitely not politically sane, yes. Would you disagree? Trump is a complete disaster, the whole world shares this opinion. The whole world except a certain type of Republicans who have the political understanding of a 10 year old, who only understand the language of a bully.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I'll say it again and leave it at this: Subsim is not biased to "Trump". Why would it be? Would someone please go through this thread and count the pro/anti posters,please?

Did you actually read my post?
Because we share the same opinion here.

02-02-17, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

By 2020 their navy will be much stronger than it is now.

In politics, countries often don't go to war only when they have overwhelming capacity to win it.

True that if war erupts now China has no way of winning a war at sea. But in 2019/2020 and beyond the temptation plus the added domestic instability brought upon by a sputtering economy and the non-existence of any way for the Chinese people to change their government could push Beijing to start a war. Most probably in East China Sea or pertaining to Taiwan.

What kind of sorcery will happen in the coming 3 years that will grant China a war-capable navy?

02-02-17, 06:14 AM	#1068
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,672 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Smart guys try to make these two going to war against each other. We could second-hand sell them Trident for that. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-02-17, 06:34 AM	#1070
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,913 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Next in: Theresa May makes 100 bn pounds weapons deal with China. The economy has never been so bright like after Brexit. I do not see a weapon deal with China to be of less brisance, than the one with Turkey. On the other hand... the US debt to China is $1.0493 trillion, as of November 2016. »Ho(n)ni soit qui mal y pense« __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

02-02-17, 06:53 AM	#1072
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	My January 11th, 2017 Facebook post. Global demand has been waning for years. Beijing, in turn, relies on a credit binge to keep production going and its citizens employed. However, this is unsustainable and the associated economic risks have given rise to capital outflow. The ongoing capital flight from China has depreciated the Yuan to worrying level and debt has been ballooning out of control as China's state enterprises borrow money to pay for credit and finance production against the backdrop of a declining global demand. China's massive foreign exchange reserves, however, have eased the pressure on Yuan but China's forex reserves are depleting fast and have gone below the 3-trillion psychological level. When, instead of if China's economic crisis rears its ugly head, capital is expected to flee Asian markets. Countries which rely on China heavily for trade will be severely hit and have their currency depreciated not unlike the 1998 crisis level and perhaps even worse. Global demand has been weak due to the shrinking middle-class in the US and Europe while China is not yet a market economy. The only easy way out for China and the West to solve their economic conundrum is by stoking ultra-nationalistic sentiment of their citizens and instigate a war as war is simply a forced redistribution of influence (political capital and the ability to set and change rules), power (the might to enforce rules and challenge them by force both economically and militarily), and capital (wealth of a nation seen as leverage to political, economic, and military powers of a nation). We may see a big war erupting in Asia in the next 2-5 years as both sides, China and the West, are predisposed to resort to war to assuage their economic malaise. Even more so for China as prolonged deep economic malaise is destabilizing for Beijing. To buy time, a war would make a much-needed distraction and garner political support. A big war may also the one thing that could win Trump's second term in office. This is no joke. I share Moore's opinion that Trump may not finish his first term. He may either quit or forced to quit. The only thing that would ensure his 2nd term in the office is a big war with China. __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

02-02-17, 07:39 AM	#1077
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,518 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Let me add....everyone is entitled to their opinions and viewpoints. Moderation only comes into play when a clearly identifiable breach of the rules (fully explained and linked to up at the top of the page for everyone to read should they feel the need) takes place. The most common examples being name calling and the exchange of insults. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

02-02-17, 06:10 AM	#1067
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	So, war with China and war with Iran, how about it? Should be a barrel of laughs, right? Take peoples minds off the economy, get a nice boom in fallout shelters. It's good stuff. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...P=share_btn_fb

02-02-17, 06:32 AM	#1069
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20

02-02-17, 06:39 AM	#1071
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Well, China already has a big stake in our nuclear industry so arms can't be far behind...although I imagine they already have blueprints of all our weapons and can build them quicker and cheaper than we can anyway!