Be watching for an Update on Starforce from Toms Hardware!!!

[Syxx_Killer]

That's wonderful news!

[GT182]

Subman, exactly the same problem with the exact same drive I have. Thankyou for confirming.

[ThirteenthHouR]

Gizzmoe, no offence ment and it is good to be challenged, but most your arguments seem to be about definition.

We now use the term Trojankit, which removes this definition problem.

We fully accept that other issues can trigger these problems, however as with most things in the Computing world, its rarely 100% factual evidence that you deal with as in many cases all you have to work with is the balance of probabilities.

1 person has DMA step down. he/she removes SF and the problem goes away. You can call that coincidence, but when 800,000 people get the same reaction you can safely assume that SF has an issue.

So at that point we set about finding out what it was.

That same thing applies with slow downs, Code 41 errors etc.

Now in the latter case, the mess caused to the filter section of the registry is very easy to observe in a before and after scenario.


So when Soulcommander says you questions have been answered, why do you keep repeating the same things in a slightly different worded format?

I can understanding someone defending SF if they had financial amounts to gain from it, but I am yet to comprehend why somebody would defend shoddy coding just for the sake of it?

Especially when such code actually leave end users systems open for exploitation by persons with malicious intent.

Dude you really should go here:

Starforces Technical Support forum and see how badly they treat people with technical issues.

That is not what the industry thought it was buying into.


to quote from the rules

Remember that moderators have the strict policy regarding the removing of anonymous posts from the board, which contain false or unproved claims.

However that actually includes offering technical support for real issues that end users are having problems with.

I know first hand because they deleted my DMA step down fix and Code 41 error fix. When I challenged the senior SF moderators about this. This is one of the responses I recieved.

I kid you not, This is a word for word copy and paste from the PM I recieved.

Hi again!

I'v forwarded your reauest to our programmer, who make whole drivers work.

Could you plz contact him to research the problem closer together? (if yes i''ll give you his e-mail)

Right now he has no idea whats going on. After we fined any solution or start to understand the problem cearfuly - we could make some forum post on it

I knew they had problems but check this part out "Right now he has no idea whats going on". This is their programmer, he does no have a clue what is happening.

I thought WTF this is crazy..............

After offsetting advice I decided to help, but only if the request came through official channels. As they do have such a lousy reputation with peeps that have tried to help them in the past.

As you may have guessed, they will not contact officially.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by ThirteenthHouR

Gizzmoe, no offence ment and it is good to be challenged, but most your arguments seem to be about definition.

Indeed. I really wouldn´t care about the whole thing if I knew that you don´t know what you are talking about and that you simply use this term because you´ve heard it somewhere and you think it sounds cool and dangerous. But that´s not the case. You know what you are talking about and it was a concious decision to make up a new definition for "Trojankit" so that SF fits 100% into it and then to use this term in an intentionally wrong way. That´s pretty unprofessional (to put it mildly).

I´ve asked that already: How can this term and the definitions of it be any helpful? There are enough people out there who don´t know about the potentional dangers of SF yet. Do Larry and you from now on answer questions like "What´s Starforce?" only with "Please read the definition of Trojankit at n-gage-help.com"?

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Soulcommander

TOMS HARDWARE ARTICLE WILL BE RELEASED FEB 11th!
Link soon to Follow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, its the 11th but I can't seem to find the article on TH website (it has an awful layout).
If somebody can post the link to the article it will be appreciated.

[Gizzmoe]

The article isn´t out yet.

[Soulcommander]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Allright, messing with the Silent Hunter 3 install program, and it is possible to defeat Starforce and 'never' have it install on your system (This is not a guide to bypassing SF, so don't ask me, and everything I write here has to be legal - This is just a workaround to keep it from installing). I won't say how this is possible other than the fact that Starforces flaw is in how it installs itself - and I discovered it tonight (but had an inkling of before which is what prompted me to try). The key is that SF is 'not' installed upon installing the said software, nor is it installed by patching the said software. It is installed by 'playing' the said software since it is embedded in the exe. That is the key. Don't run it!

To get around the rest, you guys will have to use your own minds because it is against this boards policy to post about bypassing the actual copyprotection.

The point is, if SH3 is your thing to play, it is possible to keep you sys secure and still play SH3. Hopefully SF will be dropped like a hot potato by dev's in the future and we all won't need to worry about it ever again! I'm off to play now, so don't expect me around for a while!

-S

PS. I can play SH3 and Sf has never graced the sectors of my HD!!! At least not in this install of XP MCE 2005!!!

Actually this is old news....But I understand your willingness to help. I can tell your a caring guy as by what you posted to try to help others. First off I would like to say that the Dev team has nothing to do with Starforce. The Publisher does, thats my understanding. Correct me someone if it's incorrect.

Second, although I have a willingness to also help everyone I want all of you to know the kind of individule I am...
Yes there is a crack available for SF. But I have not installed it. Nor publicised it. (Until now I guess )
Yes I love SHIII and would love to play it again without SF.

But here is what I really want to see happen:

I would prefer the Game Publisher provide it! (Ubisoft)
I will suggest this to Ubisoft. Also on any games that are exceptionally old and have dropped in price, it would also be nice to see Staforce removed and not a part of any future releases of those games as well.

The only problem here is "IDENTIFING" what games have Starforce in them and which ones DON'T! I think it's way past time that if UBISOFT still feels Starforce is such a good thing that they give Starforce CREDIT and list them on the outside packaging of the game box!
If the Publishers are so proud of this copy protection then "Give Starforce some Publicity!"


These are all suggestion's I will bring up to Ubisoft. What do you guys think? Shoot me a pm! I will include your name if you provide it as someone that feels the same way.

Of course it's also possible that Ubi takes an active response and becomes the first company to do away with Starforce...This will show the gaming community that Ubisoft does care about it's consumers.
Go back to Safedisc or some other established protection that is not going to mess up your system and hardware.

[Soulcommander]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Ok, its the 11th but I can't seem to find the article on TH website (it has an awful layout).
If somebody can post the link to the article it will be appreciated.

I will post it as soon as someone alerts me that it's out. Toms Hardware includes many, many companies!

Hosted By © 2006 Tom's Guide Publishing.
TG Daily
Tom's Hardware Guide
Tom's Networking Guide
Mobility Guru
TwitchGuru
DenGuru
TG Forumz
TG Stores

Select a Region: China | France | Germany | Hungary | Italy | Poland | Sweden | Russia | Taiwan | Turkey| UK & Ireland


Did I leave any out?????????

FYI http://www.tgpublishing.net/

[DanMattia]

Originally Posted by Soulcommander

Actually this is old news....But I understand your willingness to help. I can tell your a caring guy as by what you posted to try to help others. First off I would like to say that the Dev team has nothing to do with Starforce. The Publisher does, thats my understanding. Correct me someone if it's incorrect.

Actually, quite a few publishers I talked to said that the dev. teams choose the anti-piracy software. Other publishers are the ones who do that. So it goes both ways.

[ThirteenthHouR]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Indeed. I really wouldn´t care about the whole thing if I knew that you don´t know what you are talking about and that you simply use this term because you´ve heard it somewhere and you think it sounds cool and dangerous. But that´s not the case. You know what you are talking about and it was a concious decision to make up a new definition for "Trojankit" so that SF fits 100% into it and then to use this term in an intentionally wrong way. That´s pretty unprofessional (to put it mildly).

I´ve asked that already: How can this term and the definitions of it be any helpful? There are enough people out there who don´t know about the potentional dangers of SF yet. Do Larry and you from now on answer questions like "What´s Starforce?" only with "Please read the definition of Trojankit at n-gage-help.com"?

I try to be reasonable and held back on my comments and this is what I get in return.

The definition is put together in manner to cover a range of unstable DRM's that have been used lately that do not sit in Mark definition of Rootkits. As explained previously a lot of organisations and people in forums having been saying its not a "rootkit" as if that fact some how made these technical problems go away.

I ask are you now saying Mark was wrong in creating the term rootkit to match with what he was seeing?

As an example would you create the definition of an egg if you where describing an apple?

Yes this description is convenient, convenient for everybody to explain a complex range of software/hardware interactions in a single word. Thus avoiding blurring of the definition of the problems.

In fact that is a very professional approach as it stops incorrect association or misuse of the term. Clear defined criteria are always better than open ended streams of information.

I way to you what isa rootkit?

You can go and look it up

I say to you what is a TrojanKit

You can go and look it up.

That is the difference of using single terms to define a range of processes, rather than having to repeat pages and pages of explanations time and time again.

I really do not know why this needs to be explained to you, given that you appear to be a very intelligent chap.

[Soulcommander]

Good Morning 13th.... Just give up on him please. It's best to let him just figure it out on his own as he is intelligent enough to do it himself. Some things can not be explained to the student.
I'm glad I wasn't his teacher is all I can say, it would have drove me up the wall.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Soulcommander

Actually this is old news....But I understand your willingness to help. I can tell your a caring guy as by what you posted to try to help others. First off I would like to say that the Dev team has nothing to do with Starforce. The Publisher does, thats my understanding. Correct me someone if it's incorrect.

Second, although I have a willingness to also help everyone I want all of you to know the kind of individule I am...
Yes there is a crack available for SF. But I have not installed it. Nor publicised it. (Until now I guess )
Yes I love SHIII and would love to play it again without SF.

But here is what I really want to see happen:

I would prefer the Game Publisher provide it! (Ubisoft)
I will suggest this to Ubisoft. Also on any games that are exceptionally old and have dropped in price, it would also be nice to see Staforce removed and not a part of any future releases of those games as well.

The only problem here is "IDENTIFING" what games have Starforce in them and which ones DON'T! I think it's way past time that if UBISOFT still feels Starforce is such a good thing that they give Starforce CREDIT and list them on the outside packaging of the game box!
If the Publishers are so proud of this copy protection then "Give Starforce some Publicity!"


These are all suggestion's I will bring up to Ubisoft. What do you guys think? Shoot me a pm! I will include your name if you provide it as someone that feels the same way.

Of course it's also possible that Ubi takes an active response and becomes the first company to do away with Starforce...This will show the gaming community that Ubisoft does care about it's consumers.
Go back to Safedisc or some other established protection that is not going to mess up your system and hardware.

By your words, I understand that you see what I write as a threat to the campaign - trust me, I will never buy another SF protected game ever again. This workaround only allows me to play that which I already mistakenly purchased - And I tried it because I never remember having to type in that code or wait while the protection loads 'during' the install - only happened after I tried to run the game (It was the first time I saw a SF install, so it caught my eye). If i knew SF was on SH3 (I bought it the day it hit CompUSA), I wouldn't have purchased it at all - even to this day.

As for the old news part, if people already knew about this, where the hell is it posted? It would be nice to see this info more widely available since it allows one who can think through the process to avoid having this ugly SF on their sys! Just a thought.

-S

[Soulcommander]

Sub your right....It has been posted but not enough. ALthough I have been accused as well as others as talking to much about SF. LOL Information is power...
I really have never thought of any of this as a campaign. More of what you were doing. Providing awareness.

What you did was ok in my book.
I just have to watch myself a bit more as I feel I have some responsibility to uphold. Hope you can understand what I mean by that!

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Soulcommander

Sub your right....It has been posted but not enough. ALthough I have been accused as well as others as talking to much about SF. LOL Information is power...
I really have never thought of any of this as a campaign. More of what you were doing. Providing awareness.

What you did was ok in my book.
I just have to watch myself a bit more as I feel I have some responsibility to uphold. Hope you can understand what I mean by that!

I understand, but I also look at it from the perspective that I will still have fun with what I purchased already without them taking it away from me over some copyprotection. You can call it my small act of defiance!!!

The point is - I am playing their game, fully patch, without their damn protection! It is like me snubbing my nose at them! On the otherhand, I also won't be giving them another penny of my money if they continue to support such barbaric measures in compromising my system.

What I don't really get is that most of us are probably of an age now where we have rather deep pockets and wouldn't pirate in the first place. Why tick us off now? That is stupid marketing!!!

-S

[Soulcommander]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I understand, but I also look at it from the perspective that I will still have fun with what I purchased already without them taking it away from me over some copyprotection. You can call it my small act of defiance!!!

The point is - I am playing their game, fully patch, without their damn protection! It is like me snubbing my nose at them! On the otherhand, I also won't be giving them another penny of my money if they continue to support such barbaric measures in compromising my system.

What I don't really get is that most of us are probably of an age now where we have rather deep pockets and wouldn't pirate in the first place. Why tick us off now? That is stupid marketing!!!

-S

Your right on all points. These are things I already pointed out to Ubisoft. I too have stated on the forums as well as to Ubisoft via Phone conversations as well as email, that my money now stays in my pocket if it involves any software containing Starforce copy protection. Others have taken the same stance and yet others have said we are all fools. That's fine, all I care about is my system and if it means no game oh well then it's no game.

I find it also funny at Ubisoft there is a thread at Might and Magic someone started concerning Starforce........
So the discussion goes on in there about it. But then you have posters coming into the SF thread and posting we should close this thread etc etc. I say this:

You don't have to read it my friend. The Header of the original post is clearly Marked. Just skip over it if it doesn't affect your system. You should be happy...
Ubisoft is aware of it I make sure of all the posts that they are. If you are annoyed then as they say turn it off. No one is forcing you to look.
I might also like to add, we don't go into your posts about the game that have nothing to do with Starforce when your discussing other topics to change the subject to Starforce! So why bother comming here to troll? If all of us would raid your other topics here on the forum then you would have the right to demand action and be upset. Your call for it now is uncalled for!

Well actually you can see what I say here:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums...014#5751056014

It's funny how this happens. I think these fellas have vested interest in the game and are worried about their pockets and if the game is actually going to sell. What else could it be? Its ok for them to troll but if we would do it we would be banned I'm sure of that.