Shall we talk about file sizes in mods?

Jeff-Groves · 11-25-18, 04:28 PM

One thing We do know is the larger the file sizes get?
The longer the load times and other issues that show up.
There are a lot of ways around this that I have posted about in the past but I'll go over the basics again.

Even GWX 3 did not know about the easiest way to clone ships until SH4 came out. So nearly all mods have an over head of needless 3d objects.

Needless objects cramp the whole loading process and stress system resources.
That is a fact! You have all seen this with long load times and CTDs.

We do know that it is only necessary to load one 3d model to complete a full render of a more complex in Game unit.
I use the Maunsell Forts in GWX as an example. Open those with S3D and see how it was done. There are examples in the original release of SH3 so I did not invent the idea. The prospect was there from the start!

It is never necessary to add massive 3D objects to a file when placement nodes will do the work. Don't add ungodly verts to a file when one model can be placed with the placement node as many times as you wish with less overhead.

As mods become more complicated? Look for the best way to complete the work without adding unneeded stuff.

I could spend months culling and fixing files in most every Major mod.
Even GWX3 could be cut back with what I know now.

Jeff-Groves · 11-25-18, 04:42 PM

Talking about placement nodes?
IF I wanted to create something I wanted no one to duplicate easily?
I could build a .dat file of nothing but placement nodes,
scatter the parts around in different .dat files,
and you'd spend a lot of time to build the 3d model out side of the Game.
You'd have to chase every link and export the 3d model THEN hope to adjust it properly!

Jeff-Groves · 11-25-18, 04:55 PM

How to duplicate Units in SH3 the SH4 way:

Look at the BBNevada in SH4
ClassName=BBNevada
3DModelFileName=data/Sea/NBB_Colorado/NBB_Colorado

This type setting works in SH3 also!
Follow the files.

s7rikeback · 11-30-18, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

How to duplicate Units in SH3 the SH4 way:

Look at the BBNevada in SH4
ClassName=BBNevada
3DModelFileName=data/Sea/NBB_Colorado/NBB_Colorado

This type setting works in SH3 also!
Follow the files.

Oh yes one of Jeff's first teachings...

Been doing this for a long time now, for personnal use and for a add-on mod for FOTRSU, which gives us 20+ "cloned" ships, all having the Maru name attached for the Japan roster, while keeping the original files within their own rosters and with totally different names. Yet the clone shares the dat / sim / val / dsd / cam / zon of the model it's cloned from.

bigboywooly · 11-30-18, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7rikeback

Oh yes one of Jeff's first teachings...

Been doing this for a long time now, for personnal use and for a add-on mod for FOTRSU, which gives us 20+ "cloned" ships, all having the Maru name attached for the Japan roster, while keeping the original files within their own rosters and with totally different names. Yet the clone shares the dat / sim / val / dsd / cam / zon of the model it's cloned from.

In SH4 ?

Jeff-Groves · 11-30-18, 08:27 PM

In SH4 it works fine.
I know damned well I had it working in SH3 at one point!
I'm still looking at what I had working and trying to duplicate.
If I can't get it working I don't have a problem saying.....
"Oh Crap!! I was wrong!"

s7rikeback · 11-30-18, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

In SH4 ?

Yes sorry.

Pm with files coming your way.

ArnoldR · 12-01-18, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7rikeback

Oh yes one of Jeff's first teachings...

Been doing this for a long time now, for personnal use and for a add-on mod for FOTRSU, which gives us 20+ "cloned" ships, all having the Maru name attached for the Japan roster, while keeping the original files within their own rosters and with totally different names. Yet the clone shares the dat / sim / val / dsd / cam / zon of the model it's cloned from.

So, how is it working?????

s7rikeback · 12-01-18, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArnoldR

So, how is it working?????

Very well...

areo16 · 12-24-18, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

How to duplicate Units in SH3 the SH4 way:

Look at the BBNevada in SH4
ClassName=BBNevada
3DModelFileName=data/Sea/NBB_Colorado/NBB_Colorado

This type setting works in SH3 also!
Follow the files.

Hi All,

I have tried this over the last few days in many different flavors and I was unable to get this to work in SH3.

Has anyone had any success with this? This would be a breakthrough.

I've tried setting the model of a unit I know has the same model, then removing the original .dat file so I know its not using it. I just can't get the ship to show up.

Perhaps only implemented in SH4 and SH5? I do see the 3DModelFileName entry in many cfg files in SH3, but they only reference their own model.

Thanks.

HanSolo78 · 01-13-19, 04:43 PM

@Jeff

Any further ideas or programmes that could help optimize Sh3 and reduce memory usage?

gap · 01-13-19, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by areo16

Hi All,

I have tried this over the last few days in many different flavors and I was unable to get this to work in SH3.

Has anyone had any success with this? This would be a breakthrough.

I've tried setting the model of a unit I know has the same model, then removing the original .dat file so I know its not using it. I just can't get the ship to show up.

Perhaps only implemented in SH4 and SH5? I do see the 3DModelFileName entry in many cfg files in SH3, but they only reference their own model.

Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HanSolo78

@Jeff

Any further ideas or programmes that could help optimize Sh3 and reduce memory usage?

Yep, I am curious too

HanSolo78 · 11-25-18, 04:55 PM

There could be saved a lot by sharing 3d models and textures!!

But... all this work and time that is needed is tremendous.
Especially WAC5.x could need this optimisation, because it is running on the edge with SH3.

Jeff-Groves · 11-25-18, 04:58 PM

I have some time to assist you if you'd like.
It's for the good of the Community.

One great thing about duplicate ships done the SH4 way?
No ID conflicts!

Jeff-Groves · 11-25-18, 05:12 PM

One thing I did with GWX was look at optimizing things.
The project came to the end before We could take it to the extreme.
Had We had 1 more year to optimize?
There would have been a bar set that would be hard to match!

11-25-18, 04:28 PM	#1
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	Shall we talk about file sizes in mods? One thing We do know is the larger the file sizes get? The longer the load times and other issues that show up. There are a lot of ways around this that I have posted about in the past but I'll go over the basics again. Even GWX 3 did not know about the easiest way to clone ships until SH4 came out. So nearly all mods have an over head of needless 3d objects. Needless objects cramp the whole loading process and stress system resources. That is a fact! You have all seen this with long load times and CTDs. We do know that it is only necessary to load one 3d model to complete a full render of a more complex in Game unit. I use the Maunsell Forts in GWX as an example. Open those with S3D and see how it was done. There are examples in the original release of SH3 so I did not invent the idea. The prospect was there from the start! It is never necessary to add massive 3D objects to a file when placement nodes will do the work. Don't add ungodly verts to a file when one model can be placed with the placement node as many times as you wish with less overhead. As mods become more complicated? Look for the best way to complete the work without adding unneeded stuff. I could spend months culling and fixing files in most every Major mod. Even GWX3 could be cut back with what I know now.

01-13-19, 04:43 PM	#11
HanSolo78 Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Austria Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 3	@Jeff Any further ideas or programmes that could help optimize Sh3 and reduce memory usage? __________________

11-25-18, 04:55 PM	#13
HanSolo78 Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Austria Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 3	There could be saved a lot by sharing 3d models and textures!! But... all this work and time that is needed is tremendous. Especially WAC5.x could need this optimisation, because it is running on the edge with SH3. __________________

11-25-18, 04:42 PM	#2
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	Talking about placement nodes? IF I wanted to create something I wanted no one to duplicate easily? I could build a .dat file of nothing but placement nodes, scatter the parts around in different .dat files, and you'd spend a lot of time to build the 3d model out side of the Game. You'd have to chase every link and export the 3d model THEN hope to adjust it properly!

11-30-18, 08:27 PM	#6
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	In SH4 it works fine. I know damned well I had it working in SH3 at one point! I'm still looking at what I had working and trying to duplicate. If I can't get it working I don't have a problem saying..... "Oh Crap!! I was wrong!"

11-25-18, 04:58 PM	#14
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	I have some time to assist you if you'd like. It's for the good of the Community. One great thing about duplicate ships done the SH4 way? No ID conflicts!

11-25-18, 05:12 PM	#15
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	One thing I did with GWX was look at optimizing things. The project came to the end before We could take it to the extreme. Had We had 1 more year to optimize? There would have been a bar set that would be hard to match!