Murder in London

It shouldn't have to be pointed out that entire groups are not responsible for barbarians in their midst, but it also should not be uncomfortable to call those barbarians by their names

And there you see the truth of the nonsense, the main complaints tend to be rooted with people who do want to blame entire groups.

You people? Yes. Us, or the "infidels" as these madmen prefer to call anyone who doesn't subscribe to the insanity of their toxic faith.

"infidels". Which also includes most muslims as far as these nuts are concerned, so the cry of the "its the muslims" paints with such a broad brush it covers millions of people these nuts are aiming to murder.
So thats the same as blaming the victim isn't it.

It does look like the trend of " political correctness " moaning is in general just a trend of "I am a bigot who is too lazy or dumb to try and make my attempts at thought seem like they make sense"

[MH]

@Skybird you are banging your head on brick wall here.

A agree that there is a lot of PC going on and i wonder if it is the issue of fear of the people in question or also fear that open debate or calling some crimes by their name might lead to reactions style Norway in some extreme situation.

It my opinion it is mix of both - politicians are afraid it might blow up in their faces.

I also agree there is too much passiveness regarding those issue within the Muslim communities.
From my experience of talking with people they are often ideologically between rock and a hard place when it comes to politics so they prefer to keep silent.
Add to this the confusion and usual stuff they see from satellite TV and that's it.
Total eclipse.

Besides i don't know what your real deal is.
You have steered the pot a lot on this forum it seems so anything you say will be used against you lol.
That is also the beauty when it comes to all those PC issues ....sometimes it is very important who expresses them before people are ready to consider them.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MH

@Skybird you are banging your head on brick wall here.

You have steered the pot a lot on this forum it seems so anything you say will be used against you lol.

Yes to both, and not just here, but in real life as well. Meeting one person understanding the things I talk about costs me enduring ten people who call me a Nazi, a Capitalist, an Islamophobic, a Homophobic, a Whateverphobe. It'S just that the political system is utterly useless by now, and I do not see in value in writing letters to criminally selfish and corrupted politicians and parties who profiot from leaving things as they are, or to meet a demonstration on the street and yell out loud slogans and paroles. Talking vis a vis to somebody is my way of being a zoon politicon, I only see chances in a swing-around coming from bottom to top, not the other way around, and so I am being confronting in this forum, like I am in real life on certain issues as well.

There is a slow shift, however, at least in German, but I think in Engölish as well, there is a mounting wave of literature being released since 3 or 4 years, on all these issues, that challenge the genderism-brigades and the politically correct moral apostles and the world saviors and the Greens. I could provide a list of (German) literature on all these issues for anyone being interested, things I have read myself and do not recommend blindly. With genderism (=fundamentalist feminism), Islam and the EU still being on my radar, my major hobby currently is on money, economy, and classical libertarianism (in US), which in Europe is called simply classical liberalism (with that in America beeing used for socialism). But in principle, European liberalism and American libertarianism (since the 70s) mean the same thing, and European socialism and American liberalism means the same. In the end I do not care where totalitarianism is coming from: from Islam or politics, and I do not care whether collectivism is coming from socialism/communism or fascism - its all the same poison to me. Von Mises showed in an analysis by him that of the ten points in Marx' communist manifest, 8 points had been realised in full in the Nazis' Third Reich. Communists and Fascists/Nazis are so very close to each other, both hate to see that. Or being told.

I just do not want to be guilty of having been silent all my life long in the face of things going terribly wrong. At least I want to say that, known people or foreign people, I spoke out against things at every opportunity I had when facing people raising the critical issues. Both on the web. And in real life.

And sometimes, evben if it is only sometimes, I am successful and "convert" somebody. That is much more worth than going to a stupid general election that is just an alibi for the state - and leave it to that.

[Oberon]

So what's the difference between that and an extremist Imam?

Originally Posted by Oberon

So what's the difference between that and an extremist Imam?

You have hit the nail on the head there Oberon.
I mean seriously, when you link to a "religious" extremist nutcase that even the crazies at jihadwatch distance themselves from it does suggest that you are working on the same mental level as someone like Anjem Choudray.

[eddie]

Well, the killer was a hero according to this jerk that was kicked out of the UK sometime ago.

http://news.msn.com/world/uk-attacke...-exiled-cleric

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by eddie

Well, the killer was a hero according to this jerk that was kicked out of the UK sometime ago.

http://news.msn.com/world/uk-attacke...-exiled-cleric

A worthy target for a drone strike imo

[eddie]

I agree Jim!

[Skybird]

Muslims Must Reject Jihad

If the last 2 decades of Islamic immigration have taught us anything in the West, it’s that tolerance is like salt: it’s necessary and beneficial but too much of it will kill you. We’re forced to learn this lesson, it seems, after every violent Islamic atrocity. And we learned it again, last week, when a serving British soldier was murdered in the street by 2 Islamic barbarians – one of whom claimed that they were forced to do this terrible thing by the Koran, which he then quoted as justification.

I couldn’t help noticing that this very important and relevant piece of information was carefully left out of all the news reports, as if it really didn’t matter. Instead, we were fed the usual blizzard of the usual platitudes from the usual suspects like the Muslim Council of Britain but, crucially, we heard no rejection by any Muslim of the Islamic scripturally-mandated doctrine of violent, armed, Jihad; which is the actual problem here.

Islam endorses armed Jihad. It is a religion of violence and terror. Allah says so and everybody knows how ‘akbar’ he is because we hear about it whenever some innocent person is murdered in the name of his religion. We should not be expected to ignore the violence and hatred in Islamic teachings, simply to avoid offending moderate Muslims. If they were really that moderate, they would face up to what their religion teaches and disown it. Instead, they prefer to dissemble and equivocate and say it’s got nothing to do with Islam but we can all read and we know that’s a lie and that last week’s murder was all about Islam from start to finish and from top to bottom. It was written right through it like a stick of seaside rock: I S L A M spells Jihad. And, by the way, please no more garbage about Jihad being a journey. It’s a journey alright . . . into mental illness . . . and we’re not going along for the ride.

If the British police were as quick to arrest Islamic bigots as they are ordinary citizens who post offensive messages on Twitter, this disgusting murder would never have happened. One of these savages was known to police and had already committed a prosecutable offense but, for reasons best known to themselves, they chose to ignore him until he committed this murder. Then we saw swift and decisive action as people were arrested for posting offensive — not libelous — messages on Twitter and an 85 year-old woman was arrested and held in police custody for shouting outside a mosque. In a just and sane society, the officers who made those arrests would themselves be arrested and charged with wasting police time.

Meanwhile, media darling Andy Choudary is free to preach his message of hatred all day long while enjoying police protection as well as generous state benefits. He gets paid more for attacking and insulting our values than our soldiers get for defending them. And it’s to our country’s eternal shame that nobody is the least bit surprised. Of course, it’s not just soldiers, now, who need to watch their backs in Britain because these 2 savages also told us that nobody here is safe.

We’re all to blame, apparetly, for their mental illness. We’re all oppressors of Islam. We’re all invaders and crusaders and God knows what else. But perish the thought that all Muslims should be to blame for the violence endorsed by their religion and repeatedly carried out in its name. No, they’re not even to blame for the hate-stirring bigots who preach in their mosques without a murmur of protest. That’s got nothing to do with them. Instead, anyone who points out the violent nature of Islamic teachings is automatically accused of stirring up hatred when, in fact, they’re responding to hatred that has already been well and truly stirred up, incubated, nurtured and fed by Islamic bigots in mosques and universities and by the government and police’s mealy-mouthed, multi-culti, cowardice and dishonesty in dealing with them.

We can do something about universities, maybe, but only Muslims can affect what happens in mosques because nobody else goes in there. If a mosque is allowing people to preach hatred and violence on its premises, then everyone who attends that mosque and who doesn’t protest about it is culpable. I know very well that if I attended a meeting and somebody was advocating death to anyone from the platform, I would have plenty to say about it. And I wouldn’t care how sacred the space was.

We keep hearing about an anti-Muslim backlash in the wake of this atrocity, as if Muslims are somehow the real victims. They’re not. What we need is a Muslim backlash and we need it now. You may be a moderate peaceful Muslim but there’s nothing moderate or peaceful about your religion. And you know it. The bigots who preach in your mosques, who take sustenance from your religion, are hiding behind you. And your silence is helping them to do it. If your mosque is letting anyone preach hatred and violence on its premises, you have a duty to call the police. And the police have a duty to take off their politically correct tinted glasses, to go into that mosque (without removing their shoes) and arrest that person. Anything less than this and you’re on the wrong side. And make no mistake: this is the moment to take sides and to show that you are taking sides.

Loyalty to the Ummah is no longer an option because these 2 murdering scumbags are part of the ummah, along with all the other murdering scumbags that your religion produces by the thousands. And it is your religion that produces these people. They have not perverted it. They are following, to the letter, the Islamic doctrine of violent, armed, Jihad. All you people who claim to speak for all Muslims – you self-appointed community leaders with your bland empty platitudes and crocodile tears; you Muslim politicians and Muslim journalists in the liberal media who deal in evasion and excuses – this murder is on your shoulders unless you, personally and publicly, reject the Islamic doctrine of armed Jihad. No equivocation, No ifs, buts or maybes. We don’t want to hear that this has nothing to do with Islam because that’s a brazen insult to our intelligence. We want a clear, categorical, public, rejection of the Islamic doctrine of armed Jihad. Anything less than this and we will know once and for all that you are complicit and that you are, and always have been, on the wrong side.

by Pat Condell
original video http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell
transcripted by AtheistExile.com

More transcripts to be found here: http://www.atheistexile.com/videos/p...o-transcripts/

[Hottentot]

Tetraodontidae

Tetraodontidae is a family of primarily marine and estuarine fish of the order Tetraodontiformes. The family includes many familiar species, which are variously called pufferfish, puffers, balloonfish, blowfish, bubblefish, globefish, swellfish, toadfish, toadies, honey toads, sugar toads, and sea squab. They are morphologically similar to the closely related porcupinefish, which have large external spines (unlike the thinner, hidden spines of Tetraodontidae, which are only visible when the fish has puffed up). The scientific name refers to the four large teeth, fused into an upper and lower plate, which are used for crushing the shells of crustaceans and mollusks, their natural prey.

Pufferfish are generally believed to be the second most poisonous vertebrates in the world, after the golden poison frog. Certain internal organs, such as liver, and sometimes the skin, are highly toxic to most animals when eaten; nevertheless, the meat of some species is considered a delicacy in Japan (as 河豚, pronounced as fugu), Korea (as bok), and China (as 河豚 hétún) when prepared by chefs who know which part is safe to eat and in what quantity.

The Tetraodontidae contain at least 120 species of puffers in 19 genera. They are most diverse in the tropics and relatively uncommon in the temperate zone and completely absent from cold waters. They are typically small to medium in size, although a few species can reach lengths of greater than 100 centimetres (39 in).

Although most species live in inshore and estuarine waters, 29 species spend their entire life cycles in freshwater. These species are found in disjunct tropical regions of South America (one species), Central Africa (three species) and Southeast Asia (25 species).

The puffer's unique and distinctive natural defenses help compensate for its slow locomotion. It moves by combining pectoral, dorsal, anal, and caudal fins. This makes it highly maneuverable, but very slow, and therefore a comparatively easy predation target. Its tail fin is mainly used as a rudder, but it can be used for a sudden evasive burst of speed that shows none of the care and precision of its usual movements. The puffer's excellent eyesight, combined with this speed burst, is the first and most important defense against predators.

Its backup defense mechanism, used if successfully pursued, is to fill its extremely elastic stomach with water (or air when outside the water) until it is much larger and almost spherical in shape. Even if they are not visible when the puffer is not inflated, all puffers have pointed spines, so a hungry predator may suddenly find itself facing an unpalatable, pointy ball rather than a slow, tasty fish. Predators which do not heed this warning (or who are "lucky" enough to catch the puffer suddenly, before or during inflation) may die from choking, and predators that do manage to swallow the puffer may find their stomachs full of tetrodotoxin, making puffers an unpleasant, possibly lethal, choice of prey. This neurotoxin is found primarily in the ovaries and liver, although smaller amounts exist in the intestines and skin, as well as trace amounts in muscle. It does not always have a lethal effect on large predators, such as sharks, but it can kill humans.

Not all puffers are necessarily poisonous; Takifugu oblongus, for example, is a fugu puffer that is not poisonous, and toxin level varies wildly even in fish that are. A puffer's neurotoxin is not necessarily as toxic to other animals as it is to humans, and puffers are eaten routinely by some species of fish, such as lizardfish and tiger sharks. Also, Japanese fish farmers have grown nonpoisonous puffers by controlling their diet.

Puffers are able to move their eyes independently, and many species can change the color or intensity of their patterns in response to environmental changes. In these respects, they are somewhat similar to the terrestrial chameleon. Although most puffers are drab, many have bright colors and distinctive markings, and make no attempt to hide from predators. This is likely an example of aposematism.
Reproduction

Many marine puffers have a pelagic, or open-ocean, life stage. Spawning occurs after males slowly push females to the water surface or join females already present. The eggs are spherical and buoyant. Hatching occurs after roughly four days. The fry are tiny, but under magnification have a shape that is usually reminiscent of a pufferfish. They have a functional mouth and eyes, and must eat within a few days. Brackish water puffers may breed in bays in a similar manner to marine species, or may breed more similarly to the freshwater species, in cases where they have moved far enough upriver.

Reproduction in freshwater species varies quite a bit. The dwarf puffers court with males following females, possibly displaying the crests and keels unique to this subgroup of species. After the female accepts his advances, she will lead the male into plants, moss or another form of cover, where she can release eggs for fertilization. The male may help her by rubbing against her side. This has been observed in captivity, and they are the only commonly captive-spawned puffer species.

Target-group puffers have also been spawned in aquariums, and follow a similar courting behavior, minus the crest/keel display. However, eggs are laid on a flat piece of slate or other smooth hard material, to which they adhere. The male will guard them until they hatch, carefully blowing water over them regularly to keep the eggs healthy. His parenting is finished when the young hatch, and the fry are on their own.

Information on breeding of specific species is very limited. T. nigroviridis, the green-spotted puffer, has recently been artificially spawned under captive conditions. It is believed to spawn in bays in a similar manner to saltwater species, as their sperm were found to be motile only at full marine salinities, but actual wild breeding has never been observed.

In 2012, male pufferfish were documented carving large geometric, circular structures in the seabed sand in Amami Ōshima, Japan. The structures apparently serve to attract females and provide a safe place for them to lay their eggs.

The tetraodontids have been estimated to diverge from diodontids between 89 and 138 million years ago. There are four major clades, and these diverged during the Cretaceous between 80 and 101 million years ago. The oldest known pufferfish genus is Eotetraodon, from the Lutetian epoch of Middle Eocene Europe, with fossils found in Monte Bolca and the Caucasus Mountains. The Monte Bolca species, E. pygmaeus, coexisted with several other tetraodontiforms, including an extinct species of diodontid, primitive boxfish (Proaracana and Eolactoria), and other, totally extinct forms, such as Zignoichthys and the spinacanthids.

Pufferfish can be lethal if not served properly. Puffer poisoning usually results from consumption of incorrectly prepared puffer soup, fugu chiri, or occasionally from raw puffer meat, sashimi fugu. While chiri is much more likely to cause death, sashimi fugu often causes intoxication, light-headedness, and numbness of the lips, and is often eaten for this reason. Pufferfish tetrodotoxin deadens the tongue and lips, and induces dizziness and vomiting, followed by numbness and prickling over the body, rapid heart rate, decreased blood pressure, and muscle paralysis. The toxin paralyzes diaphragm muscles and stops the person who has ingested it from breathing. People who live longer than 24 hours typically survive, although possibly after a coma lasting several days.

The source of tetrodotoxin in puffers has been a matter of debate, but it is increasingly accepted that bacteria in the fish's intestinal tract are the source.

Saxitoxin, the cause of paralytic shellfish poisoning and red tide, can also be found in certain puffers.

More fascinating information on these noble animals here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraodontidae

[Skybird]

I never heard Islamic ideology being compared to the poison of puffer fish. Considering the hazard they both pose to brain activity, you probably have a point.

Meanwhile, BBC newsflash says: "Suspect arrested over stabbing of French soldier in Paris admits attack and was probably acting on "religious ideology", prosecutor says."

Let's see how long that phrasing stands unrelativised.

[Rockstar]

Well I'll say this, one of Islam’s core doctrines is faith in Allah’s absolute and complete sovereignty, many Muslims have had a hard time psychologically with the idea that Islam has had to play second fiddle to Christianity or anyone for that matter for such a long time. They have probably wrestled with the thought throughout the centuries that if Allah is all-powerful and Islam is his only religion, then why does Islam always finish last throughout the world? Why does Allah allow this?

Ill bet you dollars to donuts that in the next few decades if not sooner, as Islam begins to draw closer to bypassing the rest of the herd the psychological boost to Islam will be tremendous.

Sorry but I do have to chuckle a bit here. However on the other hand the psychological blow, for Christianity in particular will be equally profound. Suddenly they'll be asking themselves, “If God is all powerful, then how can he allow Islam to take over the world"?

Oh theres going to be some excitement going on among Muslims alright that hasnt been seen since the initial phases of Islam’s conquests. These murders in London and Paris I think are the beginnings of the tipping point.

Then we will hear from the vast majority of the 'good' muslims who have not spoke out against those few radicals and murders. These 'good' muslims I bet will come out of the wood work wanting to explain that the reason they did nothing was they feared death but! In their heart they were faithful and are now more than willing to jump on the radical bandwagon.

The nonbelievers arrested `Ammar Ibn Yasir and tortured him until he uttered foul words about the Prophet (Muhammad), and praised their gods and idols; and when they released him, he went straight to the Prophet. The Prophet said: "Is there something on your mind?" `Ammar Ibn Yasir said: "Bad news! They would not release me until I defamed you and praised their gods!" The Prophet said: "How do you find your heart to be?" `Ammar answered: "Comfortable with faith." So the Prophet said: "Then if they come back for you, then do the same thing all over again." Allah at that moment revealed the verse: "....except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in faith..." Surah 16:106

[HundertzehnGustav]

Originally Posted by Skybird

---

It also strikes me time and again that whenever something bad is done by some primitive sucker due to Quranic motivation, it is said that the Quran is a matter of interpretation, and that one needs a cleric's explanation to understand it in the "correct" manner, and that one must read it in Arabic (!) anyway, since this holy divine truth cannot adequately expressed in our primitive Western language anyway. But the Quran is claimed to be the word of God. Is God too stupid or was he simply too drunk so that he could not express himself that clearly that man can understand beyond doubt and without a man in the middle what he means and what he is talking about? Either God is a very stupid retard indeed, or the imperfection of Quran is due to it not being the word of an almighty god.

AWESOME.
LOLed.


double thumbs up, that waas funny indeed. i like your way of thinking.

a bit harsh, but funny as hell.

[Skybird]

That'S why I do not buy that "moderate Muslim" crap anymore. I hold them fully accountable for their acting and non-acting.

When people allow terrorists and/or hate-preachers to represent them, to act and to talk on behalf of them, these people are responsible. If people do not try to identify and get rid of terrorists, extremists and hate preacher sin their middle, they are responsible. If people allow extremists, terrorists and hate preachers to hide in their middle, they are responsible. If people hinder police and justice by falling silent in case of police investigations, if they obey parallel justice systems by Sharia judges, encourage non-integration and bypassing the law of the state, they are responsible. If Muslim communities demand the law of the country getting changed on their behalf, if they demand special treatment by state and police, if they demand special status and more attention payed to them than to all other migrant groups together, and if they only have sweet words when microphones are held at them but do not let deeds follow them and not cleaning their house all by themselves and isolate, braqndmark and throw out extremists, hate-preachers and terrorist all by themselves - then they are responsible.

They must take sides, finally. Sitting non the fence, saying they do not like what is being done in their name, but doing nothing to improve the situation, not helping, even trying to hinder us in cleaning their dirty house for them - that is what imo qualifies them for being given the boot and kicked back to the dark countries where they came from. Without going through a thousand instances of the justice system first and getting stuffed millions and millions into the process.

When you stay inside my house, it is my rules that count. Not yours, not at all - my rules. You don't like it - you leave. I do not hinder you or stab you in your back. You have no right whatever to demand me that once you came to my house I must paint the walls in the colours you demand, nor must I tolerate in my house what you say inside my house and what you do or not do.

My house - my rules.

Our home, our Europe, our America - our rules. Rules say: no Sharia, no violation of human rights, equal rights for women, no slavery, no family murder, no racism, no totalitarianism, no governing and law-making by religions, no enforced converting to Islam, no foreign Islamic nations' interests pushed by you into our societies. You hide hate-preachers and extremists in your middle, tolerate them, hinder actions taken against them - you first feel the sting of the law, and then the kick of our boot.

You comply and fully integrate without preconditions of yours, or you leave. That you integrate in full, is neither your choice nor your freedom- but your non-negotiable obligation. And it is you having to do it - not us. Period.

P.S. People may think I am too tough. But just consider that our laws knows a paragraphs putting non-assistance in case of an emergency under penalty. And that the law also will hold you accountable if you know of the presence of a terror cell that aims to overthrow the constitutional order, but you do not alarm the police. Or you know that a bankrobber is hiding in your appartment house, but you do not alarm the police. The law holds you accountable if you are proven to have known - but not having acted. That this proof is difficult to secure, you probabyl get away with saying "I did not see anything, I did not hear anything, how should I have known anything". But that still would be a lie then. And it also does not mean that the intention of the law is not there. Both morally and legally you are accountable for staying passive in case of not acting on behalf of your knowledge.

[MH]

That'S why I do not buy that "moderate Muslim" crap anymore. I hold them fully accountable for their acting and non-acting.

I agree that moderate Islam is mostly about not talking about some issues while extreme one is about calling for them.
That create sort of problem here...what happens that the moderate guys don't contradict the extremists and extremists may be seen as further expansion on the ideology.
Condemnation are very rare unfortunately.

Since you have millions of Muslims in EU by now acknowledging the problem and dealing with it is important but spreading antagonism is counterproductive.