[UNCOVERED] SH5 officially left for dead!

[SteelViking]

Originally Posted by thyro

I do bash is the idiots in UBI... so please do not rewrite my words in wrong target... I would be more than happy to buy SH5 if the all that money went to SUBSIM modders rather than a scam company called UBI.

So frankly if you are sick then please take the pills or get some glasses to properly read who my target is! Cheers

I did not misread your post(I wear contacts). I know your target is Ubi, but by bashing SH5, you are bashing the people who are currently working on it as well, the modders. There is no way around it. If you post about all the problems in a way that is not meant to be constructive like asking the modders if something can be fixed, or bringing a problem to the attention of someone who has the ability to fix it, then yes in a way you are insulting those working on it. I am not trying to single you out or offend you, I am simply stating this for the benefit of everyone.

Also, if you have a problem with Ubi, they have forums, tell everyone about it there. Why does everyone seem to think that posting bad things about Ubi here is going to make any difference. Of course, posting on their forums won't make much difference either I suppose

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Or, perhaps we can get over the 'Ubi sux' temper tantrums. I mean, it's been months now; it is long past time to either get over it and try to pull something productive out of the mess, or move on.

Exactly. A few months ago, "Ubi sucks" rants did not bother me because I was angry too. But, I, as well as many other folks have gotten over it, and are trying to make the situation better, as should everyone.

[seaniam81]

Originally Posted by Arclight

As far as simulators go: they published IL2 and LockOn; no doubt those are simulators. It seems you're forgetting about SH3, a praised and popular game (within it's niche) also regarded as a sim.

While I agree with pretty much everything you said Arc. I'm just going to point out IL2 and LockOn were indeed published by UBI, however they were created by 1C/Maddox (IL2) and Eagle Dynamics (LockOn) and Ubi had no hand in creating either. They just slapped their name on the box out on it's way out the door to the stores.

If anything UBI should be paying attention to 1C/Maddox because they still support IL2, and didn't IL2 come out in 2001?

[Arclight]

Aye, I was considering adding that maybe Ubi should stick to publishing sims instead of developing them, but they gave us SH3 and SH4. I'd also like to point out responses were not very different then to how people are reacting now.

edit: SH4 wasn't in much better condition at launch either.

There's always been a ton of complaining about SH releases, and yet today both 3&4 are mostly praised, instead of berated.


Though I should note I have that from hear-say. Haven't been around on SubSim long enough to have seen it first hand.

i think most people base their opinion of the sh5 game as it was released in its unmodded state and whatever official patches are made.

i think its wrong for people to base their opinion of sh5 with mods added to it if you are discussing the condition of the game as released.

i say this because anyone who is using the modders work to help form their opinion of sh5 is giving ubi undo credit for the modders work which improved the game.

IMO you are giving ubi and sh5 the praise they do not deserve for the hard work put in by the modders to create a better game

ubi and sh5 should only be judged for what sh5 is without any mods added when you are talking about the game as built.

now when you are discussing the games playability or enjoyment factor is the only time mods should be part of the opinion because you are no longer talking about the state it was released in.

[thyro]

Originally Posted by SteelViking

I did not misread your post(I wear contacts). I know your target is Ubi, but by bashing SH5, you are bashing the people who are currently working on it as well, the modders. There is no way around it. If you post about all the problems in a way that is not meant to be constructive like asking the modders if something can be fixed, or bringing a problem to the attention of someone who has the ability to fix it, then yes in a way you are insulting those working on it. I am not trying to single you out or offend you, I am simply stating this for the benefit of everyone.

Also, if you have a problem with Ubi, they have forums, tell everyone about it there. Why does everyone seem to think that posting bad things about Ubi here is going to make any difference. Of course, posting on their forums won't make much difference either I suppose



Exactly. A few months ago, "Ubi sucks" rants did not bother me because I was angry too. But, I, as well as many other folks have gotten over it, and are trying to make the situation better, as should everyone.

speak for your self since you represent no one else beside you m8

Apology but your view is simply childish (apology if you are an adult) but that is now my perception formed based on th comment... sorry!

I suggest you to re-read my posts for 3rd time because you are still getting them in wrong context.

DISCLAIM: Anyone as the right of reading text in the right/wrong context, I'm not responsible for wrong interpretation, translation or dyslexic problems that might occur during and after reading. Since words are free of charge and were not submited to scrutiny of UBI's DRM system and provided as it is. Therefore prone to hackers attacks or panic attacks on dearest fanboys on such subject.

BTW if you have a problem with me... lets meet at UBI's front door! I'm sure the front door window won't resist at heavy fire of crosswords

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by Webster

i think most people base their opinion of the sh5 game as it was released in its unmodded state and whatever official patches are made.

i think its wrong for people to base their opinion of sh5 with mods added to it if you are discussing the condition of the game as released.

i say this because anyone who is using the modders work to help form their opinion of sh5 is giving ubi undo credit for the modders work which improved the game.

IMO you are giving ubi and sh5 the praise they do not deserve for the hard work put in by the modders to create a better game

ubi and sh5 should only be judged for what sh5 is without any mods added when you are talking about the game as built.

now when you are discussing the games playability or enjoyment factor is the only time mods should be part of the opinion because you are no longer talking about the state it was released in.

I actually agree wholeheartedly with this statement. The game should be judged out of the box and patched. If there really are no more patches coming then I think the game fails on a lot of fronts. This is part of the reason I no-longer play SH5 and haven't for quite some time.

I'm not belittling the modders but untill UBI pays them for their hard work I think it wrong to consider their contribution as anything other than fan mods

And thyro - once you stoop to personal insults you've lost any argument you had

[thyro]

Originally Posted by Webster

i think most people base their opinion of the sh5 game as it was released in its unmodded state and whatever official patches are made.

i think its wrong for people to base their opinion of sh5 with mods added to it if you are discussing the condition of the game as released.

i say this because anyone who is using the modders work to help form their opinion of sh5 is giving ubi undo credit for the modders work which improved the game.

IMO you are giving ubi and sh5 the praise they do not deserve for the hard work put in by the modders to create a better game

ubi and sh5 should only be judged for what sh5 is without any mods added when you are talking about the game as built.

now when you are discussing the games playability or enjoyment factor is the only time mods should be part of the opinion because you are no longer talking about the state it was released in.

indeed quite true Webster

the other shenanigan is that in time raw unfinished SH5 will get heavily modded if modders keep enough interest on the game and if no major show-stop appears.

Then SH5 would come back to surface and players start buying the game... But who will win won't be Subsim modders but the company that produced this SH5 abortion.

Beside I think that is time to appear mods pay-for-use than current use-for-free... this only benefit modders. This can be seen in other games and is a good incentive to keep things in perspective from both sides... those who spend time creating mods and those that just grab them for free.

If that would happen in SUBSIM it is a totally different story but... things are changing towards this way... and to be fair if I pay for mods in other games I really wouldn't mind paying mods for this game either. That is win-win situation the modder wins and the player wins coz didn't have the trouble creating something.

edit: even if isn't for modders own wallet... that money could go either to support the community or for a charity like some that I know already do on other games.

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by Webster

IMO you are giving ubi and sh5 the praise they do not deserve for the hard work put in by the modders to create a better game

I'm not sure, are you adressing me? Pretty sure I made that distinction specifically saying it was playable out-of-the-box, and enjoyable after modders got started with it.

I agree that SH5 at release should be compared to 3 or 4 at release. At the moment though, we can't really compare it to anything since we don't even know if it's reached the end of it's support yet.


An edit I wanted to make about support and people's stance earlier:
The support is tricky at this point. On the one hand, Ubi torpedoed their sales by introducing that DRM and releasing it unfinished. I'm not up to speed on SH5 sales numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were rather disappointing. On the other hand, there's a lot of complaining going on, albeit justified in some cases. The only message this sends to Ubi is "we don't want your crap". Why would they try to improve something that nobody wants? Being a company, they would be better off cutting their losses.

It's not a good policy towards people that already own it. I certainly wouldn't buy a SH6 at this point, given the treatment we're receiving with SH5. But that doesn't mean I'm going to roll over and let it go to waste, while constantly voicing my dissatisfaction at every opportunity. I would much rather contribute to it's possible succes by offering suggestions or even doing some modding myself, if possible.

Maybe, just maybe, Ubi is willing to support it further if they think there's interest for it. The community improving the game at this point can only increase interest for it, making that chance slightly bigger.

Personally, I prefer a slim chance to no chance at all.

[OldFrenchy]

Originally Posted by Webster

after re-reading my comment i feel its important to add this:

sh5 will be a great game at some point even without ubi being involved in it anymore.

IMO it is the modders who made ubi games great and sh5 will be fixed by modders so its only a matter of giving them time.

in a year or two i think there will be a few mega mod choices that resolve "most" issues with the game and while there will still be major bugs and glitches due to ubi's unfinished work, the mods will make the rest good enough to overlook them.

Too true. A big THANKS! to all the modders for their tireless work to bring this game up to its potential! I, for one, had given up on it untill after having many mods installed convinced me that I was wrong.

[SteelViking]

Originally Posted by thyro

speak for your self since you represent no one else beside you m8

Apology but your view is simply childish (apology if you are an adult) but that is now my perception formed based on th comment... sorry!

I suggest you to re-read my posts for 3rd time because you are still getting them in wrong context.

DISCLAIM: Anyone as the right of reading text in the right/wrong context, I'm not responsible for wrong interpretation, translation or dyslexic problems that might occur during and after reading. Since words are free of charge and were not submited to scrutiny of UBI's DRM system and provided as it is. Therefore prone to hackers attacks or panic attacks on dearest fanboys on such subject.

BTW if you have a problem with me... lets meet at UBI's front door! I'm sure the front door window won't resist at heavy fire of crosswords

I think your insult of calling me childish speaks for itself as to who is the more mature and who is the less mature person in this conversation. I never once belittled you or what you say, I simply stated my disagreement.

Also, I think you should reread my comment, I clearly state that I have no problem with you personally, you must have missed that part.

[Takeda Shingen]

Withdrawn

[tonschk]

Originally Posted by SteelViking

I think your insult of calling me childish speaks for itself as to who is the more mature and who is the less mature person in this conversation.

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Very Good SteelViking , I agree

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Withdrawn

Originally Posted by Arclight

I'm not sure, are you adressing me?

no i wasnt responding to your comments, i saw how steelviking was defending sh5 with mods and taking offence at thyro putting down sh5 "as released" and saw where both of them had good points but i felt they were talking about two entirely different sh5 games, one with mods and one without.

so i offered my observation of how i think its really important to think about the way you look at things and put them into context before deciding whats right or wrong in another persons opinion.