The failure of DW

[Nexus7]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Multiplayer is altogether different. No time compression, no saving. So you wait much more. On the other hand, the tension is much higher and you hardly get bored, even if nothing happenes for two hours.

In SC i never got bored by multiplay games (played about 300 multiplay battles)... in the VN i was, there was a time limit of 2h witch was almost always sufficent to resolve the battle.
Some maps were knifefights, meaning you can detect your enemy at the very start of the mission... Those usually got resolved in 10-20 min

When DW came out and was introduced in the VN and most SC players switched to it, all this changed dramatically. In a sub vs sub context, the 2h limit was hit quite often without a solution for the battle. Some reasons for this are:
- countermeasures do WONDERS (they are even able to detonate the fish). I always hated that to death
- subs are more silent, not only the Kilo
- multiplayer maps get old fast, because of the lwami mod changing often.

So, less action than in SC (it was not rare to have no contact for 2h).
What really pissed me off, was to *waste* 2h working hard to find a contact without to be able to find any...

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Nexus7

In SC i never got bored by multiplay games (played about 300 multiplay battles)... in the VN i was, there was a time limit of 2h witch was almost always sufficent to resolve the battle.
Some maps were knifefights, meaning you can detect your enemy at the very start of the mission... Those usually got resolved in 10-20 min

When DW came out and was introduced in the VN and most SC players switched to it, all this changed dramatically. In a sub vs sub context, the 2h limit was hit quite often without a solution for the battle. Some reasons for this are:
- countermeasures do WONDERS (they are even able to detonate the fish). I always hated that to death
- subs are more silent, not only the Kilo
- multiplayer maps get old fast, because of the lwami mod changing often.

So, less action than in SC (it was not rare to have no contact for 2h).
What really pissed me off, was to *waste* 2h working hard to find a contact without to be able to find any...

Well beyond some technical issues which have been addressed such as the countermeasures now not making the torpedo explode EVER, DW in my humble opinion required a radical new way to play in multiplayer.
The biggest difference over Sub Command, 688i H/K etc... was the addition of multistation which really is a + over any other naval simulation software out there. Thing is, if you're looking for quick fights in 10-20 minutes you'll get absolutely no fun.
People wanting to play DW as a kind of FPS are using the wrong attitude, is it a wonder then that they bash and trash this game ?
We on betasom have developed a tightly knit group of players, new ones are joining every month and we teach them how to use the different units, tactics and all. Then they are in effect able to particiapte in our games. Not fps kind, they are complex and engaging missions, puting multiplayer multistation at its best. Cooperative missions that last between 2-3 hours.
They are so complex that we only design one per week, and we play with 10-15 players in general.
We have been playing these kind of missions since the days of lwami when AT3 was not even on the horizon. And such missions were as fun then as they are now. And we have transitioned from lwami, to AT, to the french mod and in future to RA. You learn to adapt and go forward.
Crying because version 2 of mod alpha changed some small bits to version 1 of mod alpha is ridiculous.

[Nexus7]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Well beyond some technical issues which have been addressed such as the countermeasures now not making the torpedo explode EVER, DW in my humble opinion required a radical new way to play in multiplayer.
The biggest difference over Sub Command, 688i H/K etc... was the addition of multistation which really is a + over any other naval simulation software out there. Thing is, if you're looking for quick fights in 10-20 minutes you'll get absolutely no fun.
People wanting to play DW as a kind of FPS are using the wrong attitude, is it a wonder then that they bash and trash this game ?
We on betasom have developed a tightly knit group of players, new ones are joining every month and we teach them how to use the different units, tactics and all. Then they are in effect able to particiapte in our games. Not fps kind, they are complex and engaging missions, puting multiplayer multistation at its best. Cooperative missions that last between 2-3 hours.
They are so complex that we only design one per week, and we play with 10-15 players in general.
We have been playing these kind of missions since the days of lwami when AT3 was not even on the horizon. And such missions were as fun then as they are now. And we have transitioned from lwami, to AT, to the french mod and in future to RA. You learn to adapt and go forward.
Crying because version 2 of mod alpha changed some small bits to version 1 of mod alpha is ridiculous.

...

congratulations for adapting and going forward. You are one of the very few

I will not comment further.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Nexus7

...

congratulations for adapting and going forward. You are one of the very few

I will not comment further.

Hey I'm not the one that has stopped playing DW for futile reasons.
Its a pity you cannot or will not adapt, in the end its your loss.
Me after 4 years I'm still enjoying this game, and the future is bright.

[Nexus7]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Hey I'm not the one that has stopped playing DW for futile reasons.
Its a pity you cannot or will not adapt, in the end its your loss.
Me after 4 years I'm still enjoying this game, and the future is bright.

Sei una testa di minchia (you are a dickhead)

Io ho una vita al di fuori di DW (I got a life beside DW)

Le stronzate che spari portano a un futuro di merda (the bull**** you express leads to crap)

goditi il simulatore amputato ma non rompermi le palle (enjoy the crippled simulator and don't get personal)

[goldorak]

Congratulations Nexus7, you've just had the privilege of being the first a-s-s-h-o-l-e to make it onto my ignore list.
Good riddance to you.

[Nexus7]

I can't suffer arrogance

[XLjedi]

Bad programming was the closest thing I could pick to how I feel about it.

I guess I would've been happier with a "Fleet Command 2" style game and all the platforms of the modern navy available for me to command.

I tend to dislike these attempts at trying to please everyone... I look at DW and PacStorm in a similar light. Either focus on making a really good simulator for a specific platform or give me a good strategic level game with lots of platforms, but don't try to do both at the same time. DW was a little heavier on the sim and lighter on strategy, PacStorm was the opposite; and both end up falling short in the end.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

I have no problem with DW playtime. I mean in singleplayer. There is time compression .. and there is save. You can stop at any time and continue later. The amount of attention may vary, but most of the time I wanted higher time compression, and I was waiting for something to happen.

....

I like quick missions. They are usually solved fast. But the mission generator could be a bit better. You should be able to choose from weather conditions, select oponent more exactly, not just a class, add allies, and so on. Sure you can do all that in full editor, but it's much more work.

I meant that 2 hours more or less with or without time compression when the action is relatively high and played most of the station by ourselves.

I agree that the quick mission could have been made better

[Dr.Sid]

Originally Posted by aaronblood

I tend to dislike these attempts at trying to please everyone... I look at DW and PacStorm in a similar light. Either focus on making a really good simulator for a specific platform or give me a good strategic level game with lots of platforms, but don't try to do both at the same time. DW was a little heavier on the sim and lighter on strategy, PacStorm was the opposite; and both end up falling short in the end.

What part of DW is strategy ? The fact you can give orders to helo from FFG ? For me DW is clean sim.

[OneShot]

DW is the best and actually more or less only tactical ASW simulation around. Yes, there is SC and Janes 688(i) but they only show one side of the ASW game ... DW is the only game showing all sides of ASW. As far as the quality of the simulation goes ... I think that DW does simulate all platforms to a rather good level. Deep enough to allow a lot of stuff to do but not as detailed as F4 or DCS:BS (both are actually study sims of one single platform). Furthermore DW is an entirely different breed compared to PacificStorm, the only thing those two games have in common is the fact that both deal with Naval units.

[Fizanko]

But isn't the real reason of why DW is the best is because there is absolutely no competitor for the modern naval warfare simulation category (at least in the one that involve the player as actually operating the platforms, not just commanding a war in a Harpoon/Fleet Command way)?

Nearly every other naval/subsim/platform operating simulators are WW2 based, none use modern platforms.

The last non-sonalyst engine clone simulation (so discounting Sub Command and 688HK) that could at least compete in the modern sub simulation category is from 1996 (Fast Attack and Tom Clancy SSN).

In such condition, Sonalyst never had any competition in the same genre to make their serie of game, so obviously the sims were the best.

[Dr.Sid]

Yes. DW is not much good, but it is still the best. For me this is reason for NOT complaining, but it may vary for other people. In fact it clearly does.

[FERdeBOER]

Well, seems that your ComSubSim will be a great competitor to DW

I think that most of people's complains are because DW is great, but it clearly shows what it could have been if it had been completed...

[Dr.Sid]

Hey don't praise me or I will blush .. at the moment I have terribly little time for CSS Damn financial crisis means we had to fire few people, and now we have to do their work. But still, while the project is crawling, it is crawling forward.