Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[Jeff-Groves]

Tactical Nuke on Moscow would make them think.
Say a nice little Neutron Bomb.

[Skybird]

Selensky himself is Ukraine's most dangerous weapon.

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/..._x_tr_pto=wapp

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Kai, all I say is that if Crimea is about to get lost Putin must show at home that he did ALL he can to keep it, else he is biologically dead. Tactical nuke strikes not on Germany or Poland, but on Ukrainian front areas and army concentrations I expect.

My assumed probability for that? 75% or higher.

You see, if Crimea is lost, than all is lost for Putin anyway.

People are not aware how tactical nukes are designed and what they mean to do and what not. I posted/linked to two insightful eassays on that early in the war, in the old Ukraine thread. These weapons do not mean the end of the world. Maybe one should say: unfortunately, because thats what makes them usable.

If he uses them, he would probably lose China. China has a 'no first use' nuclear doctrine China also fears the effect on world economy with their slow recovering they put pressure on Putin to not use it, so if Putin did use them, it would be incredibly difficult for China to stand by him. Russia is heavily dependent on Chinese support, so might be deterred from using tactical nuclear weapons.

[Dargo]

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Kai, all I say is that if Crimea is about to get lost Putin must show at home that he did ALL he can to keep it, else he is biologically dead. Tactical nuke strikes not on Germany or Poland, but on Ukrainian front areas and army concentrations I expect.
My assumed probability for that? 75% or higher.
[/I]

I understand perfectly, and I really mean that Russia has to be bombed or attacked by anyone as soon as Putin even thinks about using nukes of any kind on Ukraine.

B.t.w. there is a penal order from the International Criminal Court, in other words: This is not a Ukrainian problem but a worldwide one.
Time for a little horror show for putin (intentionally in minor letters) and Moscow.

And I could not agree more:

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I understand perfectly, and I really mean that Russia has to be bombed or attacked by anyone as soon as Putin even thinks about using nukes of any kind on Ukraine.
Time for a little horror show on Moscow.

I understand the sentiment. But it means simply this:

World War 3 (thermonuclear).

Their nuclear doctrine is crystalclear on this.
o
The risk always was that they widen this doctrine even to Crimea, since they claim Crimea is Russia.

Lets better blomb the black sea fleet out of the water, and interdict all railways and highways that lead from Russia to Ukraine. Also weapon and ammo factories and depots, command posts related to the Ukraine theatre, airfields and so forth. Even that, by their doctrin could trigger them to respond nuclear. We must make it clear so that they are convinced that that then also triggers a nuclear reaction: ours. But Russia has withdrawn over 80% of its forces form t eh Scandianvian theatre borders. That shows how serious they take NATO, I think. And we all know in what shape European NATO forces are, and how much little ammo they have.

I hate reality's rules sometimes but they are what they are and if we ignore them we blow everything off. And unfortunately we are richer than them, so are our cities. We have thus far more to lose. Or do you think trading Moscow for Houston or New York or London is a good deal?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dargo

Russia is heavily dependent on Chinese support, so might be deterred from using tactical nuclear weapons.

If Putin looses Crimea he is politically an biologically DEAD. Guess his priorities.

Again, I do not say, Ukraine should not retake Crimea if it can. All I say is we must be prepared for the costs, and must be prepared to deliver a military return that make Moscow regret what it did. Shall nobody say after the firts tacical nuke used that we could not have known. We must accept that risk. But we must not be unprepared, and must be ready for grim retaliation.

Killing Russin men is the simple name of the game. As many as possible, as quickly as possible, in scores, so that Russia's demographic fundament collapses. Dead men do not make babies. Dead men do not work in mines and do not work in factories. Seen this way, wanting to "boil the frog" makes a lot of sense. It just boils the Russian frog in Ukrainian blood, that is the moral problem.

[Catfish]

I understand the sentiment. [...]

Thanks, i was almost sure you do

World War 3 (thermonuclear). Their nuclear doctrine is crystalclear on this.
The risk always was that they widen this doctrine even to Crimea, since they claim Crimea is Russia.

Their nuclear doctrine is that when Russia is being threatened to be invaded it will use "nuclear deterrents". Not the same as using some of Putin's own means on himself. Sending some reminders via Moscow is not the same as invading the Rodina.
Anyway not even China or North Korea believe what putin says.

... they claim Crimea is Russia ...

Really. I claim that Germany's borders should be reinstated in the lines of 1942.
As well putin can claim the moon is made of green cheese, and me and anyone else will give a sh!t.

Putin can only be stopped by force, and instead of losing more lives of Ukraininans and Russia abducting children for a brain washing, it is high time to do it.
Again: Apeasement. does. not. work.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Thanks, i was almost sure you do

Their nuclear doctrine is that when Russia is being threatened to be invaded

No, the correct phrase they use is when "Russia's very existence" is at risk. Putin can make evertyhing of that, it is intentionally vague. He is the one defining when Russia's very existence is at risk and when not. You feel the masses' rising collective emotions, the wallowing in patriotic sentiments...? Führer befiehl, wir folgen.

Putin always escalates. I say that since all this began. He is a backyard thug, he knows only this reaction if being resisted to, challenged, confronted, whatever: ESCALATE. Thats the only reaction he knows. This is one fo the reaosns why I think the war will last for years to come if the Russians cannot be all killed or thrown out by force. Ukraine will need to go all the way, and the hardest of all ways.

Putin already has shifted the war's meaning from a war against Ukrainian Nazis to a war of defence against the aggression of NATO. Most Russians now think the whole West is up against them (they probably do so since the fall of the USSR...). Not a big step to claim Russia's existence is at risk if you then start bombing Russian cities.

Note: neither a nuclear attack on Russia nor an invasion of it is needed to trigger this phrasing.

[Catfish]

putin's very existence is not Russia's very existence. He will be dead in a few years anyway. What will become of Russia then if russian people never stood up?

Originally Posted by Skybird

[...] Russians think the whole West is up against them. [...]

One more month of putin's actions and they may be right. No joke.
We cannot let ourselves be blackmailed, this will open the door for all kinds of terrorist attacks and invasions by any self-declared warlord.
What I really think is the only way to break this dictatorship once and for all is to really get putin on his knees, and if he intends to draw all of innocent russian people into his own personal downfall.. so be it. History tends to repeat itself and it has been done before.

Yes I know we cannot remove dictatorships by threatening them with sanctions or or well-meant remarks, we have to negotiate and get the best out of it. Like resources lol.
But in the case of one of this multipolar warlords attacking and trying to invade another country we should act, and decisively.
Should. Will probably not happen. Look at Scholz or Wagenknecht.
At least Germany is now #2 after the US providing Ukraine with weapons.

[mapuc]

"- We will support Ukraine until the end of the war" This was what this general said in Dargo's video clip.

Trying to interpreter what he really meant by this, what was said between the lines.

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

Lived my whole life under the threat of WWIII.
Anytime you name a Big War by numbers? You can bet there will be more then 1!

Drop a Nuke during any War action? For any reason?
Then lt's go WWIII admitted.

Been fighting WWIII for years but nobody wants to call it that yet.

[Rockstar]

I think the nuke thing has discussed early on. Putin threatened use of tactical battlefield nukes. NATO threatened to retaliate swiftly and decisively by conventional means.

Or so they said.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

putin's very existence is not Russia's very existence. He will be dead in a few years anyway. What will become of Russia then if russian people never stood up?

One more month of putin's actions and they may be right. No joke.
We cannot let ourselves be blackmailed, this will open the door for all kinds of terrorist attacks and invasions by any self-declared warlord.
What I really think is the only way to break this dictatorship once and for all is to really get putin on his knees, and if he intends to draw all of innocent russian people into his own personal downfall.. so be it. History tends to repeat itself and it has been done before.

Yes I know we cannot remove dictatorships by threatening them with sanctions or or well-meant remarks, we have to negotiate and get the best out of it. Like resources lol.
But in the case of one of this multipolar warlords attacking and trying to invade another country we should act, and decisively.
Should. Will probably not happen. Look at Scholz or Wagenknecht.
At least Germany is now #2 after the US providing Ukraine with weapons.

For the time being Putin is still there, he gives shjt for his people and the people do not mind the putistate's (l'etat cest moi) business. And his successor some time in the future probably will be worse than him. And the Russian people will let it happen. As always. Their daily fights for existence fully consume their power and attention.

And btw, the proclaimed multipolarity of the world is a fallacy. The world is bipolar, USA and China. Two heavyweights, militarily, economically, technologically, scientifically. All others are one and two and more weight classes below that. India is economically dangerously overestimated, imo, and I expect many people loosing much money in the forseeable future with their investments in India. Russia is militarily interesting only, since it has the biggest nuclear arsenal. The EU is only economically playing, but gives its competitiveness up increasingly, it has a few landmark technology research projects, but none of them allowing it to play in the hall of the big gamers. Only USA and China score high marks in all four areas that define a heavyweight power. The EU and Russia are just pretending.

[FUBAR295]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Been fighting WWIII for years but nobody wants to call it that yet.

Amen, brother!