SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > General > General Topics
Forget password? Reset here

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-21-23, 11:03 AM   #9976
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,739
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Those who still believe after Putler's speech today that "after the war" there could be a "return to normal relations", or an "after Putler's departure", are beyond help. Because what became clearer to me today than ever before is that Russia is not Putler, but that Russia is Russia, with or without Putler. His narrative is believed by the majority of the population, the media power of state propaganda is omnipresent and total, the role and chances of opposition forces in Russia have always been completely overestimated in the West. The spiritual legacy of Putler will outlive his stay in office, because it was never Putler's legacy, but something that was there before, that roots deep in Russia and Russian society and culture and history and that used Putler merely to give itself a new expression. Putler is not the root of the problem, but its expression - with Russia itself being the root of the problem.

And I don't see any chance that this could change. Not in my life time, and not in the forseeable generations. They say the Russian soul is deep and grim and without fathom. Today I understood how damn true that really is, but it is a hopeless realisation, a grim one, a dark one. It means that karma creates karma, and bad karma creates more bad karma.

Its like in a Lovecraftian horror story, with the hidden evil never having been away, just having hidden under the surface, during the day.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 11:14 AM   #9977
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,739
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

We see the power struggles at the top, in the Kremlin, aroudn Putin. We see which figures make their moves already now, and what kind of evil characters they are. See all this and then tell me that after Putin it will get better! It will not get better. It will get worse.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 11:24 AM   #9978
August
Wayfaring Stranger
 
August's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 22,738
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0


Default

Says the guy who has been wrong about every aspect of this war so far.
__________________


Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.
August is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 11:39 AM   #9979
Dargo
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,420
Downloads: 21
Uploads: 0
Default

Putin has not announced a new phase, just more of the same. Vintage Putin, basically a tirade against the West in which he puts all the blame on them, describes Ukrainians as neo-Nazis, says the West is turning a local conflict into a global one. Even that culture war that the West would wage against Russia, as an attack on Orthodox family values, is by now a classic, actually he is preparing his society for a prolonged conflict. No new mobilization has been declared, but Putin is molding Russians so that they will be open to it later. For instance, he promises a state fund and better support programs for military personnel and their families. Perhaps he is doing so after criticism of the previous mobilization from poorer regions, as many men, especially from those areas, died as cannon fodder. Putin could not actually mention any victories simply because there are none, which is surely a sign of things to come.

The sanctions supposedly do nothing for Russia, but he does ask the oligarchs to invest more in Russia, saying no one is mourning their diminished yachts or sneering at businessmen who stayed in the UK and got noble titles there. Implicitly, this is a sign that he needs money. He plans new infrastructure works and also wants to widen the Volga Canal. That he openly admits that he needs Asia and the Middle East for his economy can be seen as a sign that sanctions do work. What was striking was that there was mostly mechanical applause. When the camera zoomed in on faces, you also saw few happy people in the audience. The parliament members seemed rather tired, sighing and sober. Apart from a few exceptions, you did not really see anyone looking at the leader in awe. Even with the national anthem, not everyone was singing along.
__________________
Salute Dargo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
A victorious Destroyer is like a ton against an ounce.
Dargo is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 11:53 AM   #9980
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 181,900
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 13


Default

Putin in chilling WW3 'global conflict' warning as he makes nuclear threat

Vladimir Putin has chillingly warned of a World War 3 "global conflict" as he issued yet another veiled nuclear threat, claiming the very existence of Russia is now at stake. The Russian President delivered an hour-long State of the Nation address, in which he launched several furious attacks against Ukraine, the West and NATO. He said: "The people of Ukraine have become the hostage of the Kyiv regime and its Western overlords, who have effectively occupied this country in the political, military and economic sense.

"They intend to transform a local conflict into a phase of global confrontation. This is exactly how we understand it all and we will react accordingly, because in this case we are talking about the existence of our country."

In his first direct warning during the speech, Putin said: "The more long-range Western systems are being delivered to Ukraine, the farther we will be forced to move the threat from our borders."

The speech came amid fears loom Russia could launch a major new offensive in the war with Ukraine.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...e44ebb445e33f6
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 12:21 PM   #9981
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,739
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

This report puts the movement of Russian troops into Belarus in a different light. Der Tagesspiegel:

-------------------------------

At the mercy of big brother: Does Putin now want to annex Belarus, too?

Research reveals plans by Moscow to annex its neighbor Belarus. How realistic these mind games are and what role Lukashenko plays in them.

When Belarusian President Alyaksandr Lukashenko visited his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin near Moscow on Friday, the mood was already tense. "Thank you for coming!" is how Putin welcomed his guest. "As if I could have refused," Lukashenko countered. It is an exchange of words that gives a deep insight. For Lukashenko, Putin is now above all only one thing: a danger.

This is also evidenced by a recently published and hitherto secret Kremlin document from the summer of 2021, which outlines a step-by-step plan for a Russian takeover of Belarus. This infiltration is to happen at all levels: political, economic, military. The paper was uncovered by an international research team, in which WDR, NDR and Süddeutsche Zeitung participated from the German side.

The credibility of the document is confirmed, among others, by the head of Estonian foreign intelligence Kaupo Rosin. "Moreover, I think it is plausible that Russia is aiming to take over Belarus as a sovereign nation in the long term," Rosin says. However, he questions how much independence Belarus has left at all since the start of the Ukraine war: "Belarusian forces are largely commanded from Moscow."

The Russian strategy paper addresses the goal of creating a "union state" by 2030 in which Belarus is completely absorbed by Russia. Measures to achieve this goal are divided into the political/defense, trade/economic, and social spheres and broken down into short-term (by 2022), medium-term (by 2025), and long-term (2030) stages. The ultimate goal is the complete Russification of Belarusian society.

What is particularly explosive about this is that Belarusian ruler Lukashenko is to have hardly any role of his own in this endeavor. "It is rather a takeover of Belarus, and not, as is publicly proclaimed, an integration of Belarus, in which the country retains a certain independence," says Eastern Europe expert Stefan Meister of the German Council on Foreign Relations. Both rhetorically and strategically, the plans go much further than anything that has been discussed so far.

The discussion about a union of states between Belarus and Russia has existed since the mid-1990s. After Belarus became independent from the Soviet Union, the government also kept open a closer relationship with the West. However, this was overturned in 1994 when Lukashenko took office and sought to re-establish ties with Russia.

To this end, he signed several union treaties with then-Russian President Boris Yeltsin between 1995 and 1999, which were to culminate in ever closer integration of the two states. So far, however, only isolated defense and economic policy goals have been implemented.

Larger-scale projects such as a common currency, a shared financial budget or merged political structures remained pilot projects or failed due to political differences. Under Putin's presidency, agreement was reached on a customs agreement and a limited military alliance. In 2002, however, Lukashenko rejected the proposal to integrate Belarus into the Russian territory as a new province. Today, such a "no" would carry less weight.

The Belarusian mass protests in the wake of the 2020 election fraud represented a turning point for the regime. Stefan Meister describes this as Lukashenko's dilemma: "He has decided against his own population and in favor of Russia in order to retain power. As a result, he is becoming Russia's appendage and his autonomy is shrinking."

Western sanctions have also completely aligned the economy with Russia, he said. "This is a creeping disempowerment of the Belarusian president," Meister says. Now, over months and years, the thumbscrews would be tightened and the pressure would grow.

"Lukashenko has trapped himself," says Pavel Slunkin, a former Belarusian diplomat and visiting scholar at the European Council on Foreign Relations, as well. Before the 2020 elections, his foreign policy would still have been balanced and he could keep Russia in equilibrium with other partners. But then Lukashenko had to resort to Moscow's help to stay in power: "Russia was the reason Lukashenko survived in 2020," Slunkin says.

Now he can only try to slow down the process of the Russian takeover, he said. "Changing sides is no longer an option for him." Without a Ukrainian victory against Russia and its political destabilization, he sees no real options for Lukashenko to act.

Russia's incorporation plans, however, are a cause for concern beyond Belarus. "We have some indications that there is to be integration of South Ossetia and Abkhazia," says Meister, who calls these plans an "imperialist project on the back burner."

There is also pressure in Armenia to join the union state, he says. But the threat is most acute in Georgia's two separatist regions, he says. South Ossetia and Abkhazia have been permanently occupied by Russia since the 2008 Caucasus War. Belarus could now provide the blueprint for further Greater Russian integration projects: "Lukashenko is becoming a stooge for this policy."
------------------------
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 12:33 PM   #9982
Catfish
Dipped Squirrel Operative
 
Catfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky
Posts: 16,934
Downloads: 38
Uploads: 0


Default

All those lockdowns. But sure this stuffing helps if you accidentally happen to fall out of a window

__________________


>^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.
Catfish is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 12:35 PM   #9983
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 181,900
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 13


Default

Kuleba about China’s "peace plan": We need to know all details. We are waiting for document to study

Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Dmytro Kuleba said that Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi shared with him the key positions of the "peace plan", which will be studied in detail by the Ukrainian side after receiving the full text.

Kuleba said this at a joint press conference with EU High Representative for Foreign Policy Josep Borrell and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, Censor.NET informs with reference to "Interfax-Ukraine".

"Yes, we had a meeting with China's top diplomat, Wang Yi, he shared with me the key points of China's 'peace plan'. We look forward to receiving the text, as this is not a place where you can jump to conclusions just by hearing what the plan is about. We need to find out all the details. As soon as we receive the document, we will carefully study it and draw conclusions," Kuleba said.

At the same time, the head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine emphasized that the peace formula initiated by President Volodymyr Zelensky remains the main priority.

Kuleba also noted that all actions of China in the context of Russian aggression against Ukraine should be aimed at protecting the principle of territorial integrity of Ukraine.

Earlier on Monday, Bloomberg, citing unnamed European officials, reported that China's plan for a peaceful resolution of the Russian Federation's war against Ukraine includes calls for a ceasefire and the supply of arms to Ukraine.

Speaking at the Munich Security Conference, Wang Yi noted that China does not want the "crisis" in Ukraine to continue. "We don't want to add fuel to the fire and we don't want to have any benefits from the crisis. We want to contribute to finding peace, we are on the side of peace and dialogue," he added, recalling the proposal of Chinese leader Xi Jinping, made on the second day after the full-scale invasion, so that Ukraine and the Russian Federation would sit down and discuss ways to resolve the "crisis".

Answering questions, he confirmed the relevance of the proposals made by Xi Jinping that territorial integrity and the principles of the UN Charter should be respected, nuclear war should not start and cannot be won, and nuclear power plants should not be under attack, and chemical and biological weapons should not be used under any circumstances.

Wang Yi stressed that there is no reason for China to abandon the peaceful path, because "increasing power means developing in a peaceful way." Source: https://censor.net/en/n3401208

Future of Ukraine is in Euro-Atlantic family, - Stoltenberg

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg is convinced that the future of Ukraine lies in the "Euro-Atlantic family".

As reported by Censor.NET with reference to Interfax-Ukraine, the Secretary General of the Alliance stated this during the tripartite meeting with the High Representative of the EU for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Josep Borrell, and the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Dmytro Kuleba.

"We must clearly say that the future of Ukraine lies in the Euro-Atlantic family. When this war ends, we must create a long-term security mechanism for Ukraine," he emphasized.

According to Stoltenberg, future security agreements should "break the cycle of Russian aggression."

"NATO will continue to stand by Ukraine for as long as it takes. And we will continue to work closely with the European Union to support you," he added. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3401209

Today, Putin made it clear that he is preparing for even bigger war - Stoltenberg

In his message to the Federal Assembly, Putin made it clear that he was preparing for an even bigger war with Ukraine.

This is reported by Censor.NET with reference to Interfax-Ukraine.

"After a year, we don't see any signs that President Putin is preparing for peace - on the contrary. Today he made it clear that he is preparing for an even bigger war. Russia is launching new offensives, mobilizing more troops, and contacting North Korea and Iran," he explained. he.

The NATO Secretary General reminded that the Alliance and partners provide support to Ukraine and supply heavy modern weapons, "constantly consulting with Ukraine what they need."

"But NATO also has another task - to prevent this war from going beyond the borders of Ukraine. Therefore, on the morning of the invasion, we activated our defense plans and increased the number of units in the eastern part of the Alliance, sending a very clear message to Moscow that NATO is there and will protect everyone centimeter of NATO territory. And an attack on one will be an attack on the entire alliance. We will continue to support Ukraine as long as necessary, and we will continue to provide reliable deterrence and defense of the entire NATO territory," Stoltenberg added. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3401213
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 12:41 PM   #9984
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 181,900
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 13


Default

China does not provide weapons to Russia, but asks why West helps Armed Forces with weapons - Borrell

The High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs, Josep Borrell, spoke about his conversation with Wang Yi, the head of the Foreign Affairs Commission of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China, in which he assured that the PRC would not supply weapons to Russia, but reprimanded that the West was arming Ukraine in the meantime.

This is reported by Censor.NET with reference to LIGA.net.

Borrell said he has a "good personal relationship" with Wang Yi and they had a frank conversation in Munich.

"He clearly told me that China cannot provide weapons to countries that are at war. They do not provide weapons to Russia. That is what he told me, emphasizing that this is a principle of China's foreign policy," he said.

According to him, the Chinese diplomat also said: "Why are you asking me about this when you are helping Ukraine with weapons?"

In response, the head of the European diplomacy explained to his Chinese colleague the difference between arming the Russian Federation and helping Ukraine, when Europe and the whole world are in danger due to Russian aggression.

"Of course, we have to be vigilant. But as far as I know, there is no evidence (that China is supplying Russia with weapons. - Ed.)," Borrell said. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3401245

Xi Jinping plans to visit Moscow in coming months, - Wall Street Journal

According to The Wall Street Journal, Chinese leader Xi Jinping plans to visit Moscow in the coming months. The meeting with Vladimir Putin should become part of the impetus for multilateral peace talks.

This is reported by Censor.NET with reference to channel 24.

The western media claim that Beijing wants to play a more active role in ending the Russian-Ukrainian war. A meeting with Putin will allow China to repeat its calls not to use nuclear weapons.

However, in the West, such a Chinese diplomatic initiative, which was first announced at the Munich Security Conference by Wang Yi, the head of the Office of the Foreign Affairs Commission of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China, was received with skepticism. The chosen date for the start of the Chinese peace initiative was also criticized. According to Wang Yi, China plans to launch it on the anniversary of the full-scale war, February 24.

As the media reported, with such a choice of dates, Xi Jinping "could visit Russia in April or early May, when Russia celebrates its victory over Germany in World War II." After all, it was the Nazis in the Kremlin who compared the legitimate government of Ukraine and argued that this was the beginning of a full-scale war.

Another reason is the international relations between China and Russia.

The WSJ noted that Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba met with Wang Yi and heard key elements of China's plan. He said that Kyiv is waiting for the full text before drawing conclusions, but noted that the principle of territorial integrity should be the cornerstone.

"Because if any country helps Russia to destroy the territorial integrity of Ukraine, then the principle is violated. And the message is clear: any other country can do it in any other specific situation on the world map," Kuleba said. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3401271

Biden addressed citizens of Russian Federation: USA is not going to attack Russia

During his speech in Warsaw, US President Joe Biden addressed the Russians and assured that the US has no intention of attacking or destroying the Russian Federation. According to him, the USA and Europe have never threatened Russia.

This is reported by Censor.NET with reference to UP.

"I would like to address the citizens of Russia. The United States does not want to destroy Russia, it is not going to attack Russia.

Millions of Russian citizens want to live in peace with their neighbors. They were never enemies. This is a tragedy. President Putin chose war and how long the war lasts is his choice. He can stop the war.

If the Russian Federation stops the attack and withdraws from Ukraine, the war will end. If Ukraine stops, it will be the end of Ukraine. I am sure that Ukraine can stand up for itself," Biden said. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3401277
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 12:48 PM   #9985
Catfish
Dipped Squirrel Operative
 
Catfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky
Posts: 16,934
Downloads: 38
Uploads: 0


Default

Prigozhin this morning who declares there's "direct work to destroy Wagner" as even the sapper shovels are not provided to the PMC anymore

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...70502173028353

As usual the comments hit the nail... "He's now perceived as an individual with a private & unregulated army of criminals (that executes its own with a sledgehammer) & to be a threat domestically to the pootin' criminal enterprise. Whatever would make them even think such an odd thing?! PS: Stay away from windows..."
__________________


>^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

Last edited by Catfish; 02-21-23 at 01:28 PM.
Catfish is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 01:01 PM   #9986
Dargo
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,420
Downloads: 21
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
Prigozhin this morning who declares there's "direct work to destroy Wagner" as even the sapper shovels are not provided to the PMC anymore

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...70502173028353
LOL they are not even allowed to dig their own graves what a bunch of clowns.
__________________
Salute Dargo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
A victorious Destroyer is like a ton against an ounce.
Dargo is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 01:10 PM   #9987
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 181,900
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 13


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
Prigozhin this morning who declares there's "direct work to destroy Wagner" as even the sapper shovels are not provided to the PMC anymore

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...70502173028353
Oh how my heart bleeds for them
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 01:18 PM   #9988
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 181,900
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 13


Default

Kremlin sources say Putin's health 'deteriorating' and he suffered relapse yesterday

Russian President Vladimir Putin has suffered a health relapse, according to claims from Russian telegram channel General SVR, which claims to have contact with Kremlin insiders. The account said the 70-year-old Russian President will have to undergo new treatment in early March, affecting his ability to lead Russia amid the war in Ukraine.

These claims, which cannot be verified, are just the latest in a long line of comments suggesting Putin may be suffering from health complications.

General SVR said on Telegram: "Over the weekend, Putin underwent another medical check-up.

"The recent treatment did not give the expected results and a new one, based on the results of the examination, has been scheduled and will start on March 5.

"This can and probably will seriously influence the president's plans and decisions in the coming days."

The channel added that Putin's "deteriorating health condition" means an "inability to actively participate in various activities during the treatment and he will be unable to "fully participate in the governance of the [military operation in Ukraine]."

It continued: "It should be recalled that at the end of last year, due to the onset of therapy, Putin was forced to cancel a number of large traditional events and temporarily withdraw from most of the information agenda."

The channel also said that Putin's major speech to the Federal Assembly in Moscow "will be adjusted" as a result of the alleged health issues.

General SVR has made a number of claims about Putin's health in the past, including that the Russian President has suffered "bouts of coughing, dizziness, sleep disturbances, abdominal pain [and] constant nausea" as well as "the manifestation of symptoms of Parkinson's disease and schizoaffective disorder."

Independent media outlets have also made similar claims in the past. In April, Proekt reported that Putin regularly travels with an oncologist.

They also claimed bathed in deer antlers in an attempt to improve his health.

However, the Kremlin has previously denied such rumour surrounding Putin's health. Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said in May that "Putin appears in public everyday" and added: "I don't think sane people can discern any sort of symptom of disease in this man".

The latest claims came as US President Joe Biden visited Kyiv on Monday. While in Ukraine, Washington pledged £500million in military support for the Ukrainians.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/oth...ed92c30c53042d
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 03:00 PM   #9989
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,739
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

When Putin recently met with Lukashenko and they sat in front of cameras, Putin was completely unable to keep his feet and legs still, they moved arond as if wanting to stepdance.



Looks quite like Parkinson.



With feet like these he too better stays away from windows.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline  
Old 02-21-23, 03:06 PM   #9990
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,739
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Deutsche Welle (German edition):
---------------------------------------


Ukraine: Western military aid a fraction of other wars

According to the latest analysis by the Institute for the World Economy, the U.S. and Germany spent many times more on Ukraine military aid for other wars.

He will release another $500 million worth of arms shipments in the coming days, U.S. President Joe Biden announced during his brief visit to Kiev on Monday. Specifically, the deliveries will include artillery ammunition, more howitzers and more Javelin shoulder-fired, armor-piercing rocket launchers. The announcement during Biden's highly symbolic visit just before the anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine fits the picture of the analysis now updated by the Kiel Institute for the World Economy (IfW) on the financial value of aid to Ukraine.

"The Americans are setting the pace in supporting Ukraine," says economist Christoph Trebesch, who oversees the IfW's "Ukraine Support Tracker." "The hesitancy of the Europeans in the first year of the war is a remarkable phenomenon, especially since financial resources can be mobilized quickly," Trebesch says. He is referring to the primarily financial payments made by EU states to support Ukraine's budget, especially in light of Ukraine's economic output, which has plummeted by up to 40 percent in the wake of Russia's war of aggression.

The IfW economists calculate from public sources, on the one hand, the direct financial aid and humanitarian aid and, on the other hand, also calculate the cost of weapons supplied to Ukraine. Supplies from military stocks, such as those from the German armed forces, are valued according to market prices and listed by the IfW.

According to this, compared to the last update of the "Ukraine Support Tracker" from December, the U.S. has again overtaken the EU and its member states "with further pledges in the volume of 37 billion euros" in December, the institute writes in its current analysis. U.S. aid delivered and announced now totals 73.1 billion euros, compared with the EU's 54.9 billion. So meanwhile, Ukraine has been delivered or promised aid of 128 billion euros. The U.S. is giving twice as much as the EU as a whole, followed by the UK and Germany.

For the first time, IfW economist Trebesch and his team put Ukraine aid in relation to other spending by the more than 50 supporter states of the "Ukraine Contact Group," led by the United States. "In sum, aid to Ukraine is mostly a fraction in financial terms of what governments spend on cushioning the crisis at home," the analysis says. "Germany alone has announced more than 250 billion euros in subsidies since January 2022 to cushion the rise in energy prices for consumers and businesses."

Germany's bilateral aid to Ukraine now amounts to 6.15 billion euros, it said. In contrast, he said, the German government had spent 5.65 billion euros on the so-called fuel rebate and the discounted public transport ticket alone. With these two measures, the German government had last summer cushioned the price shock for consumers caused by skyrocketing commodity prices after the Russian invasion began on February 24. The researchers did not take into account the deliveries of Western battle tanks such as the Leopard 2 for Ukraine announced for March. This is due to unclear commitments from European countries that have the German-made battle tank. Part of the spending review, however, is the $100 million for training Ukrainian pilots on Western fighter jets that the U.S. House of Representatives waved through last summer.

For the first time, the IfW researchers also compare the costs of aid to Ukraine in the first year of the war with Western spending in other wars. For example, in terms of gross domestic product (GDP), Germany spent "three times more to defend Kuwait" during the 1990/91 Gulf War, when Iraq invaded neighboring Kuwait. This money flowed directly to the U.S. at the time. Germany did not directly participate militarily in "Operation Desert Storm," with which the U.S. Army liberated the attacked Gulf state. The U.S. government spent nearly one percent of GDP on this compared to less than 0.4 percent for Ukraine so far. Also, annual U.S. military spending in Afghanistan from 2001 to 2010 was three times higher than Washington's spending to defend Ukraine in the first year since the Russian incursion began. However, unlike Ukraine, the U.S. also sent ground troops to Afghanistan and the Middle East and had to supply them for years.


The Kiel economists can also show that deliveries and commitments to Ukraine initially slumped last June. Namely, from more than 20 billion euros in May to just over five billion euros in June.

The high level was not reached again until November, and thus after the successful liberations by the Ukrainian army in the east and south of the country: First by the EU's pledge to support Ukraine with financial aid in 2023, and then by the extensive U.S. military package, with which the U.S. House of Representatives approved 37 billion euros in military aid last December. It is arguably that aid package from which U.S. President Biden approved 500 million euros in arms shipments for Kiev during his visit to Kiev earlier this week - coupled with the words that U.S. support for Ukraine is "unwavering."
-------------------------------
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline  
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.