UK Politics Thread

[Catfish]

Boris Johnson confirms bid for Tory leadership
"Of course I'm going to go for it"
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48299424

I'd say we have no better shows at the local zoo

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Boris Johnson confirms bid for Tory leadership
"Of course I'm going to go for it"
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48299424

I'd say we have no better shows at the local zoo

I'd have to agree

Bring on the EU elections and hopefully a clearer picture will emerge (ever the optimist).

[Jimbuna]

Jeremy Corbyn says talks with the government to find a compromise over Brexit "have gone as far as they can".

In a letter to the PM, the Labour leader said the six weeks of cross-party discussions could not carry on due to "the increasing weakness and instability" of the government.

Downing Street has yet to respond.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867

I doubt anyone will be surprised at this outcome.

[Catfish]

^ ^ you think the EU elections will be any more reasonable or 'better'

Hope dies last .. i am certainly not content with the EU as it is but apart from only trading treaties or such – regarding freedom of movement, studies, exchange programs for students and workers.. it would be a real fallback without it, and trade pacts alone will never make up for this.

I think the fear(mongering) of an EU superstate is overblown, the nations are much too different even if they agree in some points.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ ^ you think the EU elections will be any more reasonable or 'better'

Hope dies last .. i am certainly not content with the EU as it is but apart from only trading treaties or such – regarding freedom of movement, studies, exchange programs for students and workers.. it would be a real fallback without it, and trade pacts alone will never make up for this.

I think the fear(mongering) of an EU superstate is overblown, the nations are much too different even if they agree in some points.

My main concern with the EU is it's interference in the sovereignty and law making decisions of individual states. Freedom of movement is of lesser concern but I must admit I'd prefer a kind of point/skills process as has been successfully used in the likes of Canada and Australia.

The biggest plus imho is the free movement of trade and goods.

[STEED]

So its official, the brexit talks have failed well you had to be living on another planet not too seen that one. And now the blame game starts...BORING!



As for Boris the political thinking on that is he may steady the party but he would loose the general election.



There is only one person fit to take over and that person is Penny Mordaunt. Everyone else our burnout, flaky, who are you or a buffoon.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

My main concern with the EU is it's interference in the sovereignty and law making decisions of individual states.

"The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999
Official EU voting records show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.
In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%."

So i take it those 2 percent must be very important. Anyone else knows what this was about?

Freedom of movement is of lesser concern but I must admit I'd prefer a kind of point/skills process as has been successfully used in the likes of Canada and Australia.
The biggest plus imho is the free movement of trade and goods.

I have to accept that although i cannot see this being true for all younger people of the UK

[Nordmann]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I have to accept that although i cannot see this being true for all younger people of the UK

The EU certainly benefits certain people (the rich get richer as it were), but does it benefit everyone? No, I don't think so, at least not if you're an ordinary working person in the UK. If you're running a business reliant on cheap EU labour, then yes, you're probably very keen to keep that relationship. But the rest of us? What does it offer us?

Free movement works very well for EU member states, and obviously for UK businesses, but what about people born in the UK? What do they get out of it, except increased competition for jobs?

That's the real problem with the whole Brexit debate, we are making long term decisions on the needs and wants of the few, rather than the whole. What best serves the ordinary citizen, not the rich business owner or politician, that's the question we should really be asking.

[Catfish]

As i said the UK agreed to 98 percent of EU enablements for international trade and negotiation. You did not agree to the EUrO and the europan health care service. But it was never about "sovereignty". No the Eu has nothing to do with ... forget that im done.

Facts don't matter anymore. It's all about emotions and perception. Rupert Murdoch media twisting the truth in an unbelievable way, and what really hurts is to see how much believe that. It would be laughable if not so many people obviously believe it. Well the young don't, but they will have to live through what some old rich twats planned for them.
Do you believe your own government will fund projects in farming, fisheries and help for the UK in any comparable way the EU does now? Anyone remember Thatcher with the planned "Decline of Liverpool"? So a good brit never leaves England, well i see.

It is the rich how you call them who want brexit, and take away rights from workers to hold up the old class system that is the real english problem still exporting it to Scotland and Ireland. If you have not noticed that by now no one can help you.
And i don't bother anymore after 3 years seeing what is going on in your government. It is your funeral and if you so want why don't you get out already.



Good luck!


Still a point for point debunkment of ths sh!t the worldwide despised yellow press in the UK dares to publish, along with types like Rees-Mogg, Farage and Johnson. Murdoch and Aaron Banks should be shot.

[Jimbuna]

^ Always happy to hear both sides of the issue

[Skybird]

Stop mistaking people/populations with governments, Catfish.


And be aware of that it is not about how many laws were comign from Brussel, but to what degree they have reach and influence on subordnnate legislation. Certain feilds of plltics are dominated to a degree by Brussels initiaves and demands that doe snto get reflect by the mere number of rules and laws it needed to accheive this domiance. Agriclture, traffic, migration, ecology are such fields of politics where few rules have unfolded tremendous impact and reach. They now try to enforce Brussels dominance in social politics as well, of course at the cost of net payers in the Euro zone once again.


A structural easing of conditions in Europe has not been achieved by these ways. Quite the opposite: there is more anger, conflict, greed and more confict ebtween European people today, than ever before in the past 40 years. The harder your grip around that fistful of sand, the more grains will melt away between your fingers.



This twelce year old article on former Germna president Roman Herzogs claim that 80% of German laws come fro Brussel criticises that claim - but nevertheless still has a more well-runded judgement of the implicit background of it all. By tendency, Herzog was right, for the reason i gavce above, and thats why I repeat it occasionally, to keep a long lament short.



https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wissen/w...l-1461910.html


The EU ursurps mor e and more policy-making power in political areas and private businesses that should be not of any interest for the EU's centralist nose at all. It clearly is on the grand mission to establish an unlimited continental regime. Only opportunistically blind people and people agreeing with that course can claim not to see that.

[Catfish]

Private businesses and privatization is exactly who likes brexit. They want to freely exploit people, without being hindered by laws or human rights.
B.t.w. Roman Herzog is a complete idiot, and a retard.

"The EU ursurps mor e and more policy-making power in political areas and private businesses that should be not of any interest for the EU's centralist nose at all. It clearly is on the grand mission to establish an unlimited continental regime."



Yes, and i wish them good luck. Otherwise you can work in the coal mines again, 6 days a week without holiday, until you die with 40. Real enhancement, for the likes of Olaf Henkel or Rees-Mogg.

But you know what: England and the UK supported the rules being proposed in the EU, because those proposals do not fall from the sky. They are being laid out and formulated in the nation's back rooms, and then brought to light in international meetings, and the EU. And when one nation does not like to abandon torture or selling weapons to the middle East before complaining about fugitives, or introduce basic workers rights it will opt out in this respect. You really like that do you?

Jolly good luck. You will need it, and it will be not be the rich ones who will have to afford higher food prices, losing a lot of wealth and the occasional holidays.

[STEED]

Question time...


When do you think British politics went wrong?


It seems too me the 1990's witnesses the foundations being laid and 2000's the rotten wall was built and from there it got bigger and stronger. We the voters have been badly treated by politicians that choose not to listen to us. They have forgotten they work for us, in fact I would go as far say they just don't give a dam.



The last damning council results did noting and I bet the EU elections will do nothing. Yes the Tories and Labour will get a justified hammering this Thursday but they will go on their merry way.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

B.t.w. Roman Herzog is a complete idiot, and a retard.

Okay. Think you are just a waste of time.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by STEED

Question time...


When do you think British politics went wrong?


It seems too me the 1990's witnesses the foundations being laid and 2000's the rotten wall was built and from there it got bigger and stronger. We the voters have been badly treated by politicians that choose not to listen to us. They have forgotten they work for us, in fact I would go as far say they just don't give a dam.



The last damning council results did noting and I bet the EU elections will do nothing. Yes the Tories and Labour will get a justified hammering this Thursday but they will go on their merry way.

Not just one key event or era. The whole system cannot avoid to become what it has become. Its in its genes, it cannot be avoided. Push back time by some decades and start new form there on - it would all shift towards the very same attractors. Details may vary, the general trend and tendency, the overall inner dynamic remain unchanged. Frogs squawk, fire and black powder explodes, rivers flow from the well to the sea and modern democracy lead to corrupting their core ideals, leads to corruption, socialism, totalitarianism and the opposite of what democracy once was called up for. It carries the gernm of its fall already in its very beginning. You have undiscmrinatory voting rights for the plebs - you automatically appeal to certain motives of the masses and not to others, you attract certain harcter traits to crave for the power and not others, you open the door fro certain forms of abuse of the communal resslources to feed the ambitions of the few. It cannot be avoided. The system itself is the problem. The good reputation of "democracy" - empirically is not justified.



It may sound like a trendy cliche from the 80s when sayin that "its about the system", but - its about the system. Just differently then my age group fantasized when using that slogan cocky way while we where young and immature in the 80s.