Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2 - Page 66

Rockstar · 09-18-23, 11:25 AM

Hmmm seems the line claimed by the usual suspect who views NATO as the real threat just went up in smoke.

"Putin knows very well that NATO is not a threat to Russia. Otherwise he would not have moved all his troops into Ukraine," Norwegian Armed Forces Chairman, Army General Eirik Kristoffersen said.

There are no more than 20% of Russian forces left on the Norwegian border than it used to be before February 24, 2022. The same situation can bee seen on Russia's border with Finland.

Makes me wonder if Putin is moving them into Ukraine or his border with China.

mapuc · 09-18-23, 03:59 PM

Markus

KJakker · 09-18-23, 05:54 PM

Close up photos of damage to the Kilo class Rostov-on-Don have come out.

Commander Wallace · 09-18-23, 06:00 PM

^ great pics, KJakker.

Thanks for sharing them and welcome to Subsim.

. I hope you enjoy your time here.

Skybird · 09-18-23, 06:18 PM

"Damage"...?

Looks more like a knockout-forever to me!

Front torpedoroom shredderd, gally and parts of the batteries gone, in between the control room and periscope masts certainly a pigs breakfast as well, and then the cascading damage from these hits that travel on inside the boat where the hull has not been cracked open.
That can will never swim back to sea again, I say.

Commander Wallace · 09-19-23, 05:20 AM

^ That's pretty much the opinion of Knowledgeable sources.

Quote: Multiple accounts — including from the U.K. Ministry of Defense — indicate that the submarine in question is the Rostov-on-Don (B-237), an Improved Kilo boat, from the Project 636.3 class, which is capable of launching Kalibr land attack cruise missiles, of the type widely used against targets in Ukraine. This submarine entered service in 2014 and is one of four of its type with the Black Sea Fleet.

Regardless, the degree of damage sustained by the submarine suggests that it will have to be written off altogether. In the very best-case scenario, it will require a rebuild, salvaging whatever components they can, which will put it out of action for years. Furthermore, any such repairs would almost certainly have to be undertaken outside of the Black Sea, which would be a serious logistic endeavor in itself.

The Russian Ministry of Defense had claimed that the attack involved 10 missiles and three unmanned surface vessels (USVs), or drone boats, with seven of those missiles being claimed as shot down. There have been claims that the missiles used were air-launched Storm Shadow and/or SCALP-EG standoff missiles that can be launched by Ukrainian Air Force Su-24 Fencer strike/reconnaissance aircraft.

Seen in happier times, the Russian Navy Improved Kilo class submarine Rostov-on-Don sails through the Bosphorus Strait on the way to the Black Sea, on February 13, 2022. Photo by OZAN KOSE/AFP via Getty Images

https://www.twitter.com/DefenceHQ/stat/1702561936179630440?s=20

https://www.twitter.com/CovertShores...736647453?s=20

https://www.twitter.com/SubBrief/sta...196827203?s=20

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-s...165654878.html

Torvald Von Mansee · 09-19-23, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonschk

THOUSANDS OF CZECHS MARCH IN PRAGUE DEMANDING EXIT NATO AND STOP SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/DodW1kgttxBc/

Right. I'm sure Russia has no link with the impetus behind that..

mapuc · 09-19-23, 07:31 AM

Markus

Skybird · 09-19-23, 08:10 AM

The Swiss almost 100 Leopard-1 that a Swiss company, RUAG, wanted to buy from the govenrment, to sell them to Rheinmetall , have been rejected by the swiss government to sell.

Several dozen Belgium Leopard-1 that the government wanted to buy from a company owning them, are stuck as well, the Belgian government quote unreasonable price tags.

German Leopard 1, I think the talk once was about 100, have been rejected by Ukraine to be imported, refering to their age and condition.

Thats a pattern.

So much for the earlier proclaimed huge tank delivery to Ukraine starting later this year. As it looks now, everything is stuck.

mapuc · 09-19-23, 08:15 AM

Markus

mapuc · 09-19-23, 10:54 AM

Markus

Catfish · 09-19-23, 01:40 PM

Not a bad speech

Skybird · 09-19-23, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

The Swiss almost 100 Leopard-1 that a Swiss company, RUAG, wanted to buy from the govenrment, to sell them to Rheinmetall , have been rejected by the swiss government to sell.

Several dozen Belgium Leopard-1 that the government wanted to buy from a company owning them, are stuck as well, the Belgian government quote unreasonable price tags.

German Leopard 1, I think the talk once was about 100, have been rejected by Ukraine to be imported, refering to their age and condition.

Thats a pattern.

So much for the earlier proclaimed huge tank delivery to Ukraine starting later this year. As it looks now, everything is stuck.

https://www-fr-de.translate.goog/pol..._x_tr_pto=wapp

----------------

Many observers said weeks ago that Ukraine had allowed itself to be drawn back into a war of attrition that would inevitably be to its disadvantage. I said I feared that too. But it seems that this phase has gone more to Russia's disadvantage, because of Russian incompetence in tactical leadership and some secret Ukrainian tactical cleverness that has allowed them to crack this tough nut without hurting themselves too much. It seems that their reserve capacity is, for whatever reason, greater than expected, perhaps because the Russian commanders are so inefficient in commanding their troops and make so many terrible mistakes. Whatever the reason, the Ukrainians have now managed to put the Russians in a really dangerous and threatening situation for Russia. So, for the first time since this offensive began, I am raising my estimate of their chances, I am just not sure by how much, but it is significant. They have improved their situation, and to a degree that is undoubtedly of great concern to the Russian command. It is the threats they can now project that founds the argument I make.

But - it seems I always have a "but" - this raises the chances for nuclear tactical attacks by Russia. I said early on that when Crimea is in danger to get lost, Putin will use tactical nukes. I still stick to that assessment. Putin must show at home that he tried everything to keep Crimea, if he wants to biologically survive at home.

Contrary to what Babble-Olaf seems to assume, I do NOT conclude from this that Ukraine should refrain from reclaiming its territory on the Crimea peninsula. That is a decision for Ukrainians to make, not Westerners.

Catfish · 09-19-23, 03:12 PM

Nuclear attack by Russia? F'k them!
If "we" (Germany having no nuclear strike ability) allow dictators like Russia or China or North Korea invading militarily inferior countries, and letting us be threatened with nuclear attacks of any kind, we could as well bury our heads in the sand and let them do whatever they want (just like Sarah Wagenknecht wants us to do).
To illustrate this further, some strategic bombing of Russia with conventional payload and a well worded note for escalation will probably make them think twice.

What do you think China would do (or would already have done with Taiwan) if we had sat back in our comfortable chairs during Russia's 2022 invasion, like we did in 2014?
The only action Putin understands is resistance, or in his case, direct violence. Even Merkel said this in the early days of Russia's invasion 2022. I really wonder how anyone can only think about meeting Putin for "negotiations". This is not someone to make a deal with, there can only be defeat or victory. Appeasement. does. not. work.

Skybird · 09-19-23, 03:30 PM

Kai, all I say is that if Crimea is about to get lost Putin must show at home that he did ALL he can to keep it, else he is biologically dead. Tactical nuke strikes not on Germany or Poland, but on Ukrainian front areas and army concentrations I expect.

My assumed probability for that? 75% or higher.

You see, if Crimea is lost, than all is lost for Putin anyway.

People are not aware how tactical nukes are designed and what they mean to do and what not. I posted/linked to two insightful eassays on that early in the war, in the old Ukraine thread. These weapons do not mean the end of the world. Maybe one should say: unfortunately, because thats what makes them usable.

09-18-23, 11:25 AM	#976
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,014 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Hmmm seems the line claimed by the usual suspect who views NATO as the real threat just went up in smoke. "Putin knows very well that NATO is not a threat to Russia. Otherwise he would not have moved all his troops into Ukraine," Norwegian Armed Forces Chairman, Army General Eirik Kristoffersen said. There are no more than 20% of Russian forces left on the Norwegian border than it used to be before February 24, 2022. The same situation can bee seen on Russia's border with Finland. Makes me wonder if Putin is moving them into Ukraine or his border with China. __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time. Last edited by Rockstar; 09-18-23 at 03:50 PM.

09-18-23, 03:59 PM	#977
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,285 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

09-18-23, 06:18 PM	#980
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,743 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	"Damage"...? Looks more like a knockout-forever to me! Front torpedoroom shredderd, gally and parts of the batteries gone, in between the control room and periscope masts certainly a pigs breakfast as well, and then the cascading damage from these hits that travel on inside the boat where the hull has not been cracked open. That can will never swim back to sea again, I say. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-19-23, 05:20 AM	#981
Commander Wallace Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Under the sea in an Octupus garden in the shade Posts: 5,034 Downloads: 360 Uploads: 0	^ That's pretty much the opinion of Knowledgeable sources. Quote: Multiple accounts — including from the U.K. Ministry of Defense — indicate that the submarine in question is the Rostov-on-Don (B-237), an Improved Kilo boat, from the Project 636.3 class, which is capable of launching Kalibr land attack cruise missiles, of the type widely used against targets in Ukraine. This submarine entered service in 2014 and is one of four of its type with the Black Sea Fleet. Regardless, the degree of damage sustained by the submarine suggests that it will have to be written off altogether. In the very best-case scenario, it will require a rebuild, salvaging whatever components they can, which will put it out of action for years. Furthermore, any such repairs would almost certainly have to be undertaken outside of the Black Sea, which would be a serious logistic endeavor in itself. The Russian Ministry of Defense had claimed that the attack involved 10 missiles and three unmanned surface vessels (USVs), or drone boats, with seven of those missiles being claimed as shot down. There have been claims that the missiles used were air-launched Storm Shadow and/or SCALP-EG standoff missiles that can be launched by Ukrainian Air Force Su-24 Fencer strike/reconnaissance aircraft. Seen in happier times, the Russian Navy Improved Kilo class submarine Rostov-on-Don sails through the Bosphorus Strait on the way to the Black Sea, on February 13, 2022. Photo by OZAN KOSE/AFP via Getty Images https://www.twitter.com/DefenceHQ/stat/1702561936179630440?s=20 https://www.twitter.com/CovertShores...736647453?s=20 https://www.twitter.com/SubBrief/sta...196827203?s=20 https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-s...165654878.html Last edited by Commander Wallace; 09-19-23 at 05:44 AM.

09-19-23, 07:31 AM	#983
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,285 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

09-18-23, 05:54 PM	#978
KJakker Nub Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 4 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Close up photos of damage to the Kilo class Rostov-on-Don have come out.

09-18-23, 06:00 PM	#979
Commander Wallace Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Under the sea in an Octupus garden in the shade Posts: 5,034 Downloads: 360 Uploads: 0	^ great pics, KJakker. Thanks for sharing them and welcome to Subsim. . I hope you enjoy your time here.

09-19-23, 08:10 AM	#984
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,743 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	The Swiss almost 100 Leopard-1 that a Swiss company, RUAG, wanted to buy from the govenrment, to sell them to Rheinmetall , have been rejected by the swiss government to sell. Several dozen Belgium Leopard-1 that the government wanted to buy from a company owning them, are stuck as well, the Belgian government quote unreasonable price tags. German Leopard 1, I think the talk once was about 100, have been rejected by Ukraine to be imported, refering to their age and condition. Thats a pattern. So much for the earlier proclaimed huge tank delivery to Ukraine starting later this year. As it looks now, everything is stuck. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-19-23, 08:15 AM	#985
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,285 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

09-19-23, 10:54 AM	#986
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,285 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

09-19-23, 01:40 PM	#987
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,935 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Not a bad speech __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

09-19-23, 03:12 PM	#989
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,935 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Nuclear attack by Russia? F'k them! If "we" (Germany having no nuclear strike ability) allow dictators like Russia or China or North Korea invading militarily inferior countries, and letting us be threatened with nuclear attacks of any kind, we could as well bury our heads in the sand and let them do whatever they want (just like Sarah Wagenknecht wants us to do). To illustrate this further, some strategic bombing of Russia with conventional payload and a well worded note for escalation will probably make them think twice. What do you think China would do (or would already have done with Taiwan) if we had sat back in our comfortable chairs during Russia's 2022 invasion, like we did in 2014? The only action Putin understands is resistance, or in his case, direct violence. Even Merkel said this in the early days of Russia's invasion 2022. I really wonder how anyone can only think about meeting Putin for "negotiations". This is not someone to make a deal with, there can only be defeat or victory. Appeasement. does. not. work. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

09-19-23, 03:30 PM	#990
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,743 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Kai, all I say is that if Crimea is about to get lost Putin must show at home that he did ALL he can to keep it, else he is biologically dead. Tactical nuke strikes not on Germany or Poland, but on Ukrainian front areas and army concentrations I expect. My assumed probability for that? 75% or higher. You see, if Crimea is lost, than all is lost for Putin anyway. People are not aware how tactical nukes are designed and what they mean to do and what not. I posted/linked to two insightful eassays on that early in the war, in the old Ukraine thread. These weapons do not mean the end of the world. Maybe one should say: unfortunately, because thats what makes them usable. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.