UK Politics Thread - Page 659

Jimbuna · 05-08-19, 06:24 AM

Quote:

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is expected to warn the UK about allowing Chinese firm Huawei access to critical infrastructure on a visit to London.

Mr Pompeo will hold talks with Theresa May and make a speech on foreign policy ahead of US President Donald Trump's state visit next month.

The US is reported to be alarmed at Huawei's possible involvement in building the UK's 5G mobile network.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48198932

I share the US concern but wonder if it has something to do with the current trade war between the US and China.

STEED · 05-08-19, 06:37 AM

Quote:

This debacle has gone way belong Brexit

AS I SAID.

STEED · 05-08-19, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I share the US concern but wonder if it has something to do with the current trade war between the US and China.

I would say about 80%.

BossMark · 05-08-19, 06:43 AM

With all this brexit chaos i would love to find the rock toffboy as crawled under...

Catfish · 05-08-19, 06:44 AM

^ it is about trade war, and the chinese silk road.
Huawei has been open to foreign probes, visits and has explained all, they claim that there is no involvement by the chinese government, and up to now there is no other evidence.
Clear that you can of course intercept and read eMails and chats and digital signals, but the underlying code and protocol of the technical 5G net is not so complicated that it cannot be seen through.

As far as german specialists are involved, there is no backdoor or digital spy. Of course encrypted signals can be deciphered given computing power and time, but 5G itself, meaning the hardware and the protocol, is open for everyone to look at. The problem begins when you direct encrypted data through it, but the current hubbub is as if you say that electrical powerlines alone are spying on you.

After reading a lot of technical stuff about 5G i also wonder where the evidence is, of 'backdoors' or spyware. As far as i know the first claim has been properly debunked. As said before, anything can be intercepted, no encryption will be safe if the leading secret services get their hands on it.

"It is hard to imagine that unnoticed in this way, all data that goes through a network, could be forwarded to unauthorized persons. The corresponding data volume would be enormous and correspondingly conspicuous. More plausible is the risk that data can be filtered via the remote maintenance access, for example by data type, sender or recipient; the corresponding amounts of data would probably not attract attention in large networks.

In this way, one could actually engage in political or economic espionage.

In fact, it was the concern of that very kind of espionage that led the federal government, after the Snowden revelations, to stop using products from the US company Verizon on the government and federal government network."

"The supreme irony of what is being claimed is that while the U.S. government is warning all the world to avoid using Chinese-made phones, especially those made by Huawei and ZTE, the NSA was caught implanting backdoor software in Huawei servers with a goal of spying on Huawei and its customers."

ikalugin · 05-08-19, 06:53 AM

There is always a concern about non declared capabilities.

For example we are trying to build up domestic production for key infrastructure projects such as:
- government and military C4 networks.
- government admin network.
- networks for key research and industrial (ie in nuclear sector) organisations.
- internal ISP networks (ie the ones reponsible for control of the general service networks).
etc.
https://habr.com/ru/post/300766/
But for civilian/consumer purposes we do use imported (Western and Chinese) equipment, even though there were cases in the past (Lybia, Syria) where cyber attacks used undeclared functionality to significantly disrupt their operations.

STEED · 05-08-19, 11:02 AM

Quote:

The PM has rejected calls for her to quit over her handling of Brexit, saying it is "not an issue about me".

Theresa May was replying to Tory Brexiteer Andrea Jenkyns, who said she had "failed to deliver on her promises" on Brexit and had lost public trust.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48199725

What trust? She is a walking disaster, bogged up in the Home Office bogged up as Tory leader and PM and bogged up Brexit! And still Teflon Bog up May is still here and why? There is no one to replace her that I can see.

JUST SAW SOME BREAKING NEWS......

Quote:

BREAKING
George Osborne: Former chancellor urges cabinet to move against Theresa May
George Osborne tells Sky News he thinks the time has come for a new leader and new mandate in the Conservative Party.

https://news.sky.com/story/george-os...a-may-11714591

Skybird · 05-08-19, 11:37 AM

So good to know that the Chinese always say just the truth, Catfish.

I have linked one or two weeks ago to an explanation about the 5G network and the risks that may or may not be involved from a technical standpoint, but I do not really care to look it up for you again, since you will ignore unwelcomed challenges to your worldview anyway, as usual. It is more dangerous than you imply, and not as immediate a danger than the US paints it as - but it is a risk for sure, many experts from different nations agree on that, and quite some nations agree on that and have Huawei already banned. Like Windows can be safely assumed to have hidden ackdoors demanded by the US govenrment, the Chinese would be stupid if not using the opportunity to infiltrate Western networks with their technology in return. Its too tmepting to be able to overhear Wetsern key communication at critical points of the infrastructure, or to be able to wreak havoc on said infratrriucture in case of an according future scenario where China sees that opötion as profitable for its interests.

ikalugin · 05-08-19, 11:43 AM

Skybird, the problem of network equipment vulnerability has been studied in Russia for a long time.

The conclusion is that unless the equipment is used for critical roles then the vulnerabilities you describe are not relevant, especially considering the modern shift towards secure encryption everywhere outside of subsim forums via HTTPS etc. As such we are ok with using Western (or Chinese) in non critical, civilian applications.
And considering the Western cyberpower we would be the first to re-consider that use if there was a real issue.

Mr Quatro · 05-08-19, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

So good to know that the Chinese always say just the truth, Catfish.

I have linked one or two weeks ago to an explanation about the 5G network and the risks that may or may not be involved from a technical standpoint, but I do not really care to look it up for you again, since you will ignore unwelcomed challenges to your worldview anyway, as usual. It is more dangerous than you imply, and not as immediate a danger than the US paints it as - but it is a risk for sure, many experts from different nations agree on that, and quite some nations agree on that and have Huawei already banned. Like Windows can be safely assumed to have hidden ackdoors demanded by the US govenrment, the Chinese would be stupid if not using the opportunity to infiltrate Western networks with their technology in return. Its too tmepting to be able to overhear Wetsern key communication at critical points of the infrastructure, or to be able to wreak havoc on said infratrriucture in case of an according future scenario where China sees that opötion as profitable for its interests.

Whooe!

Quote:

I do not really care to look it up for you again, since you will ignore unwelcomed challenges to your worldview anyway, as usual.

I could feel Sky's frustration with you Catfish and I love both of you ... good post Sky

Catfish · 05-08-19, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

So good to know that the Chinese always say just the truth, Catfish.

Oh i would not trust them of course, control is always better. Huawei may be a private company (whatever this means in a "communist" country, which really is a dictatorship), but one of the laws in China states that every individual has to help the secret service...
What i did read in your links back then is that there are no spying charges against the company, and even in the case that's happening in the US right now no one has been found guilty of anything yet.

Using technology is always a risk, and since i already linked to Marc Elsberg's book in wich a cyber attack is being described (if a terrorist one) with the power grid collapsing all over Europe i guess everyone who has eyes is aware of the threat. Maybe some are a bit paranoid if they have "the five eyes".

Skybird · 05-08-19, 02:02 PM

What is to be taken from that article I linked to was that the tehzcno9logical concept of why and what in 5G poses a risk, is behind the time, I mean it is basiung on an outdated, now misled understanding, and that the threat analysis needs to take into accoujnht the newer possibilities of how the technology can be abused. And then the American concerns all of a sudden make an awesome lot of sense. As have already been concluded by Austrlaia and New Zealand, two other members of the five eye club who have banned Huawei.

The Europeans once again try to just hurt nobody's preciosu sentiments when weaseling around Huawei.

Lets do business with Huawei, their consumer products like tablets and smartphones are pretty good, and very good bang for the buck, beats Apple and is at least en par with Samsung, why not use them in the private realm, I do it myself. In business and critical infrastructure I already would be far more hesitent. But these are not the issues that matter. While their network technology is state of the art and seems to lead the competition and is faster than anyone else'S, it is assessed by outdated European technological security standards/concepts that can no longer correctly describe the risks of 5G. And therein lies the danger of espionage and cyber warfare.

Me thinks currently the whole thing named 5G is a bad idea. It needs a lot of broadcasting towers, it has shorter range, thus it will cost immense money for the support hardware infrastructure, will raise the electromagntic emission level dramatically, and will necessarily not redeuce but increase the number of black holes where you have no contact to the network. POolitcs push it only becasue it is needed for the speed-dpeending new communication and autonomous traffic infrastructure that is so headlessly wanted by the party. Once again it seems the Germans make the most German of all their mistakes: wanting not just a workable, pragmatic solution, but the perfect, the outstanding, the morally superior, the world'S best technological solution: and in the end getting something terribly mediocre that for years will not work even just properly. - Autonomous mobility, another dead end, in my opinion. And the last word on e-mobility also is not yet spoken, battery versus fuel cell - I read todsay that the race has been reopened again by German, Chinese and Japanese comopanies investing into fuelo cells now. - Closing the many blackholes on the German map and pushing the (low) avergae speeds of internet over here by introducing something incredibly more complex and prone to problems - it cannot get any more German than this.

Its a national disease.

STEED · 05-08-19, 04:04 PM

I have a better idea they all pile into jim's man shed and give jim a shed load of money and beer and jim can retire.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48199355

Jimbuna · 05-09-19, 06:19 AM

Quote:

European elections 2019: Labour can unite our country, says Corbyn
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48208846

Jimbuna · 05-09-19, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Theresa May has bought herself another week’s grace as prime minister, hinting she will bring the EU withdrawal bill to parliament before the European elections and promising to meet a powerful backbench committee who have demanded that she set out her timetable for stepping down.

After a fortnight of furious demands by Tory MPs that she give a firm date for her departure, Sir Graham Brady, the chair of the 1922 Committee, said May had agreed to meet him and the 13-strong executive of Tory backbenchers next week.

He gave no indication that May intended to provide a firm departure date at the meeting, but the promise will buy the prime minister an extra week to continue cross-party Brexit talks with Labour, before the Conservatives could consider changing leadership rules to force her exit.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexi...id=mailsignout

A very stubborn individual in my estimation....not that I believe anyone else is more qualified or capable of unravelling this mess we currently find ourselves in.

05-08-19, 06:43 AM	#9874
BossMark Fleet Admiral Join Date: May 2011 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire Posts: 15,272 Downloads: 278 Uploads: 0	With all this brexit chaos i would love to find the rock toffboy as crawled under... __________________ Never trust the Tories look what Thatcher and Major did in the 80s and 90s and look what the wicked witch May is doing now doing now

05-08-19, 06:44 AM	#9875
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,769 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ it is about trade war, and the chinese silk road. Huawei has been open to foreign probes, visits and has explained all, they claim that there is no involvement by the chinese government, and up to now there is no other evidence. Clear that you can of course intercept and read eMails and chats and digital signals, but the underlying code and protocol of the technical 5G net is not so complicated that it cannot be seen through. As far as german specialists are involved, there is no backdoor or digital spy. Of course encrypted signals can be deciphered given computing power and time, but 5G itself, meaning the hardware and the protocol, is open for everyone to look at. The problem begins when you direct encrypted data through it, but the current hubbub is as if you say that electrical powerlines alone are spying on you. After reading a lot of technical stuff about 5G i also wonder where the evidence is, of 'backdoors' or spyware. As far as i know the first claim has been properly debunked. As said before, anything can be intercepted, no encryption will be safe if the leading secret services get their hands on it. "It is hard to imagine that unnoticed in this way, all data that goes through a network, could be forwarded to unauthorized persons. The corresponding data volume would be enormous and correspondingly conspicuous. More plausible is the risk that data can be filtered via the remote maintenance access, for example by data type, sender or recipient; the corresponding amounts of data would probably not attract attention in large networks. In this way, one could actually engage in political or economic espionage. In fact, it was the concern of that very kind of espionage that led the federal government, after the Snowden revelations, to stop using products from the US company Verizon on the government and federal government network." "The supreme irony of what is being claimed is that while the U.S. government is warning all the world to avoid using Chinese-made phones, especially those made by Huawei and ZTE, the NSA was caught implanting backdoor software in Huawei servers with a goal of spying on Huawei and its customers." __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 05-08-19 at 07:20 AM.*

05-08-19, 06:53 AM	#9876
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	There is always a concern about non declared capabilities. For example we are trying to build up domestic production for key infrastructure projects such as: - government and military C4 networks. - government admin network. - networks for key research and industrial (ie in nuclear sector) organisations. - internal ISP networks (ie the ones reponsible for control of the general service networks). etc. https://habr.com/ru/post/300766/ But for civilian/consumer purposes we do use imported (Western and Chinese) equipment, even though there were cases in the past (Lybia, Syria) where cyber attacks used undeclared functionality to significantly disrupt their operations. __________________ Grumpy as always.

05-08-19, 11:37 AM	#9878
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,655 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	So good to know that the Chinese always say just the truth, Catfish. I have linked one or two weeks ago to an explanation about the 5G network and the risks that may or may not be involved from a technical standpoint, but I do not really care to look it up for you again, since you will ignore unwelcomed challenges to your worldview anyway, as usual. It is more dangerous than you imply, and not as immediate a danger than the US paints it as - but it is a risk for sure, many experts from different nations agree on that, and quite some nations agree on that and have Huawei already banned. Like Windows can be safely assumed to have hidden ackdoors demanded by the US govenrment, the Chinese would be *stupid* if not using the opportunity to infiltrate Western networks with their technology in return. Its too tmepting to be able to overhear Wetsern key communication at critical points of the infrastructure, or to be able to wreak havoc on said infratrriucture in case of an according future scenario where China sees that opötion as profitable for its interests. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-08-19, 11:43 AM	#9879
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Skybird, the problem of network equipment vulnerability has been studied in Russia for a long time. The conclusion is that unless the equipment is used for critical roles then the vulnerabilities you describe are not relevant, especially considering the modern shift towards secure encryption everywhere outside of subsim forums via HTTPS etc. As such we are ok with using Western (or Chinese) in non critical, civilian applications. And considering the Western cyberpower we would be the first to re-consider that use if there was a real issue. __________________ Grumpy as always.

05-08-19, 02:02 PM	#9882
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,655 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	What is to be taken from that article I linked to was that the tehzcno9logical concept of why and what in 5G poses a risk, is behind the time, I mean it is basiung on an outdated, now misled understanding, and that the threat analysis needs to take into accoujnht the newer possibilities of how the technology can be abused. And then the American concerns all of a sudden make an awesome lot of sense. As have already been concluded by Austrlaia and New Zealand, two other members of the five eye club who have banned Huawei. The Europeans once again try to just hurt nobody's preciosu sentiments when weaseling around Huawei. Lets do business with Huawei, their consumer products like tablets and smartphones are pretty good, and very good bang for the buck, beats Apple and is at least en par with Samsung, why not use them in the private realm, I do it myself. In business and critical infrastructure I already would be far more hesitent. But these are not the issues that matter. While their network technology is state of the art and seems to lead the competition and is faster than anyone else'S, *it is assessed by outdated European technological security standards/concepts that can no longer correctly describe the risks of 5G.* And therein lies the danger of espionage and cyber warfare. Me thinks currently the whole thing named 5G is a bad idea. It needs a lot of broadcasting towers, it has shorter range, thus it will cost immense money for the support hardware infrastructure, will raise the electromagntic emission level dramatically, and will necessarily not redeuce but increase the number of black holes where you have no contact to the network. POolitcs push it only becasue it is needed for the speed-dpeending new communication and autonomous traffic infrastructure that is so headlessly wanted by the party. Once again it seems the Germans make the most German of all their mistakes: wanting not just a workable, pragmatic solution, but the perfect, the outstanding, the morally superior, the world'S best technological solution: and in the end getting something terribly mediocre that for years will not work even just properly. - Autonomous mobility, another dead end, in my opinion. And the last word on e-mobility also is not yet spoken, battery versus fuel cell - I read todsay that the race has been reopened again by German, Chinese and Japanese comopanies investing into fuelo cells now. - Closing the many blackholes on the German map and pushing the (low) avergae speeds of internet over here by introducing something incredibly more complex and prone to problems - it cannot get any more German than this. Its a national disease. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-08-19, 04:04 PM	#9883
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	I have a better idea they all pile into jim's man shed and give jim a shed load of money and beer and jim can retire. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48199355 __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!