UK Politics Thread

[ikalugin]

Left authoritarianism exists.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Left authoritarianism exists.

Indeed it does, in many different facets. From the military dictatorship in Venezuela to the left-leaning opinion dictate of media, politics and civil society in Germany that rules out and even sanctions any differing view or opinion that does oppose the mandatory consenus: it looks different, but its all symptoms of one and the same root evil. When consensus becomes mandatory (or in modern plain Merkel-German: "alternativlos/without any alternative") and gets enforced in totality, what is left then is tyranny.

Originally Posted by Alexis de Tocqueville

"Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude."

"Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.”

"Tyranny in democratic republics does not proceed in the same way, however. It ignores the body and goes straight for the soul. The master no longer says: You will think as I do or die. He says: You are free not to think as I do. You may keep your life, your property, and everything else. But from this day forth you shall be as a stranger among us. You will retain your civic privileges, but they will be of no use to you. For if you seek the votes of your fellow citizens, they will withhold them, and if you seek only their esteem, they will feign to refuse even that. You will remain among men, but you will forfeit your rights to humanity. When you approach your fellow creatures, they will shun you as one who is impure. And even those who believe in your innocence will abandon you, lest they, too, be shunned in turn. Go in peace, I will not take your life, but the life I leave you with is worse than death."

[ikalugin]

I won't go quite so far as you do, skybird though

[Skybird]

There is no half-way interruption, no early brake. You either think it consistently to the end of it, or you don't - and thus must ot even start. Much of the present'S mess is from too much of this shilly-shally egg-dancing around the original meaning of terms, this intended relabelling of things and qualities to hide higher from lower value, maeterially and morally, culturaly as well. Alll must become "relative" so that no hierarchical structuring can be done anymore and thus all and everything and everybody can be claimed of being of the same base value and essence. Socialism becomes "social justice", planned economy becomes "social market economy", and socialism and communism are claimed to be different while truth is they relate to each other like cloud, water and ice, In principle its all the same.


The lief has become the new deity. And dancing around it and believing it, is a collective duty and the citizen's first obligation. Don't join, and media and public opinion and influencers and PR specialssts will excommunicate you immediateky and declare open season on you.


It is beign illustrtaed to be like that every single dan day over here, wqhenever I oen any newspaper or zap into any talkshow format. Public edcuation at schools and universities is is heavily infested with this that you cannot escape feeling that it all is hopeless.


Its extremely desillusionizing. Here the campaign for the EU electiosn has started. The stupid talking skyrockets into the air, the posters along the streets show great diversity in saying all the some thing: "Hello, we are still here, and we are as stupid and dumb as always before: come and join us!"


An this stupidity is not just passively there and is not just dumb: it actively hunts down others not falling for it and brings them down and then devours them. More and more tutors and teachers at universitys learn that living amongst predatory stupids, is dangerous and can ruin the material, economic basis of your mere existence.


No ikalugin, either tthink it to the end, or do not even start thinking. Any compromise is just your approval to get corrupted. And by that you corrupt and censor free thinking itself.

[ikalugin]

No ikalugin, either tthink it to the end, or do not even start thinking. Any compromise is just your approval to get corrupted. And by that you corrupt and censor free thinking itself.

Said like a true radical.


I am a mere moderate though. I respect your individual choice though.

[Skybird]

I see. Trying to be consistent, disqualifies you to be a "radical", and corrupting argument and straight thought, enobles you to be a "moderate".

Certainly explains why so many luke-warm promise-raisers and straightout fraudsters and plunderers can make it to rank and fame in politics and maximise the damages they cause, always at the longterm cost of the people.

Since this is so, I rather be as radical as is possible for me to achieve. I may loose on society that way, but I keep my integrity that way. And of the two, the latter is so much more worth to me.

[ikalugin]

Back on topic though, any news on BREXIT? Is it still in the air or is it dead now?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Back on topic though, any news on BREXIT? Is it still in the air or is it dead now?

And not before time.

An interesting (IMHO) and well written article taking in the opinions of both sides of the divide.

England and France: a tale of two coastlines https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexi...id=mailsignout

[Reece]

I wonder how many and how high the bets placed on the outcome??

[Jimbuna]

Brandon Lewis has refused to say when the Tories' European election campaign will launch, saying his priority is not to have to fight them at all.

The UK is due to elect new MEPs on 23 May, after Brexit was delayed amid continuing parliamentary deadlock.

Several parties have launched their campaigns already but Conservative chair Mr Lewis told the BBC his focus was on next week's local elections.

The UK is due to leave the EU on 31 October, or sooner if a deal is agreed.

This means the UK must now hold European Parliament elections on 23 May if it wants to avoid leaving the EU without a deal.

But if agreement can be reached among MPs before 22 May, the UK could cancel its participation in the elections. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48083407

Here we have a classic example of the Totries inflicting yet more self harm on themselves

[ikalugin]

Yea, I am not sure how torries are going to recover after shooting themselves in the foot.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Here we have a classic example of the Totries inflicting yet more self harm on themselves

EU members and central committee expect British delegates to abstain in decision forming processes after elections were held, since the election now is - at least it gets sold as that to the public - a formality only, with Britain forced to participate just so to avoid legal complications over future decisions by the EU if it is found that with Britain still being formal member it nevertheless held no elections and thus any decisions by operetta parliament would be illegal and could be legally challenged and found being invalid alltogether. Nobody wants the British to participate in decision forming if they leave the EU, and it makes sense - it is a legal threat only that made the EU demand them to participate in elections. A formality.

So does it really matter whether British parties hold a campaign, assuming of course that in the end there will be a formal-only/soft or real/robust Brexit? No, it would not.

Save the money that campaigning costs for something stupid that at least is more entertaining. Campaigning means eager narcissists printing posters that say "Look we are still here!" and "We are as stupid as ever before, join us!" Money for that!?

[Jimbuna]

But should the Tories not bother contesting any of the seats, the door will be left open for those (insert the many here) who will contest them just to create as much mayhem as possible in the EU parliament.

Either way, this does not bode well for the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

But should the Tories not bother contesting any of the seats, the door will be left open for those (insert the many here) who will contest them just to create as much mayhem as possible in the EU parliament.

Either way, this does not bode well for the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

I seem to recall that UKIP plans to run in those elections and do exactly that.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

But should the Tories not bother contesting any of the seats, the door will be left open for those (insert the many here) who will contest them just to create as much mayhem as possible in the EU parliament.

I think they indeed should make a pig's breakast of it since the EU demonstrated its willingness again to just forget the meaning of laws and rules and bypass them if it serves the purpose. I mean if the rule says that members must hold elections for parliament, what does it tell you then when the EU expects one such de factor member then to not practice its membership rights? It is arbirtry following and not following one'S own rules. And that means the rules mean nothing at all.

Either way, this does not bode well for the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

The UK played it all way too kind and servile anyway, Jim. Look where it got you as far as the demands by the EU are concerned. It did not serve you well to play the game by their rules. They bullied you into a corner in return. Weakness does not pay off.



I th8inbk the UK should threaten to withdraw its police, militrary andf intel ressoruces from cooperation with continetal Euzrope. That would be a sting for sure, with only two milkitaries in Europoe being ready to fight a real war, the Briotish nukes beign the only ones beign fully committed to NATO (the French nukes are not) and the British intel being the most important one for anti terror and military defence as well.



That is also the reason why I think the UK must take the threat by Washington more serious to not to share sensitive information with the UK anymore in case of Huawei not being blocked from network building. It would effectively be the end of being member of the five-eyes club.