Here we go again-Ukraine once again - Page 653

Catfish · 02-12-23, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

So now we hear, for the x-th time, one half of the truth. Where is the other half? Ukrainian losses. These are what likely is far more decisive for the going of the war than the Russian losses. [...]

Yes ukrainian losses are bad. However demographics are against Russia, and a lot of voluntary fighters are helping Ukraine.
Ukraine has already proven it is able to fight and win against Russia, so what is your proposal?

Dargo · 02-12-23, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

So now we hear, for the x-th time, one half of the truth. Where is the other half? Ukrainian losses. These are what likely is far more decisive for the going of the war than the Russian losses.

Just saying. This endless stream of videos showing how great it is going and marching music in the backgroudn and heroic pathetic phrasing have become tiresome to some degree. They are feel-well videos, so to speak. Mood-boosters. Maybe they mostly are not untrue - but they are only showing one half of the truth, which is no surprise since they do not come from neutral sources. Western European and American sources have a bias, Ukrainian sources have a heavy propaganda intention, and Russian sources are paste-and-copy jobs from patient records from mental asylums, of course they are the worst of the three. Ron Hubbard could have told no finer lousy fiction.

Loose lips sink ships to clamp as tight a lid as possible on rumors that might lead to discouragement, frustration, or anything that would cut back military support and give away any intel on what, when, how Ukraine gets that the enemy can use. This is the policy of the Dutch and majority of the other NATO allies do not think they provide support to a lost cause.

tonschk · 02-12-23, 04:08 PM

Italians Ban Terrorist Dictator zelensky

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/z...ival-dlz8mrjk0

Dargo · 02-12-23, 04:24 PM

Ukrainian defenders destroyed Russian armored columns advancing in the Vuhledar direction. The Russians are now launching infantry-only, “meat wave” assaults using cannon fodder (mobiks and prisoners). https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1624832336616468481

This shows clearly Russian army has not got what it takes to win this how large their supposed stock and cannon fodder is. after 24 Feb they do not fight the tiny Ukraine army and production for decades to come Russia will suffer for this we will not allow it any seat at our table anymore.

Dargo · 02-12-23, 04:38 PM

Ukraine receives 15,000 applications for new Offensive Guard as war rages on
Ukrainians continue voluntarily enlisting in the Army to repel Russian aggression. According to Mariana Reva, the spokesperson of Ukraine’s Ministry, as of 12 February, the newly formed Offensive Guard has received over 15,000 applications from the fighters to join its assault brigades. On February 2, the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, Ihor Klymenko, announced that the Ukrainian Army set up eight assault bridges for the Offensive Guard to strengthen the country’s defense and liberate the occupied territories.

mapuc · 02-12-23, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

So now we hear, for the x-th time, one half of the truth. Where is the other half? Ukrainian losses. These are what likely is far more decisive for the going of the war than the Russian losses.

Just saying. This endless stream of videos showing how great it is going and marching music in the backgroudn and heroic pathetic phrasing have become tiresome to some degree. They are feel-well videos, so to speak. Mood-boosters. Maybe they mostly are not untrue - but they are only showing one half of the truth, which is no surprise since they do not come from neutral sources. Western European and American sources have a bias, Ukrainian sources have a heavy propaganda intention, and Russian sources are paste-and-copy jobs from patient records from mental asylums, of course they are the worst of the three. Ron Hubbard could have told no finer lousy fiction.

I'm wondering the same-How many Ukrainian has lost their life, been wounded or taken prison ?

Who benefits from losing ten thousand of soldiers the Ruskies or the Ukrainians ?

Now to something about surveillance- I have friends who is very critical against Ukraine and Zelenskyy-I read almost daily how they in strong words criticize Ukraine and/or Zelenskyy..
This has made me wonder if they are under surveillance from our Police intelligent (PET) or our Defence intelligent(FET).

Markus

Dargo · 02-12-23, 05:36 PM

Ukraine downs aerial reconnaissance vehicle, balloons in Dnipropetrovsk Oblast
Ukraine’s Air Force Command has reported that the Ukrainian Army downed an aerial reconnaissance vehicle and balloons with corner reflectors launched by Russian troops on 12 February.

Before an air alert started to sound in Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, Mykola Lukashuk, head of the Regional Council, said that Russia could begin an attack with Iranian-made Shahed drones.

Earlier, a Chinese surveillance balloon was downed off the South Carolina coast by a US fighter jet. The US accused Beijing of attempts to collect intelligence on the military and imposed sanctions on six Chinese aerospace companies, CNBC reported

Who will invade us now aliens, Chinese or Russians

Skybird · 02-12-23, 05:41 PM

Guys, I just point out that we have sometimes reasonable sources with probably more correct than incorrect descriptions for describing what goes wrong for the Russians - but that we have no complement for trustworthy sources from anywhere doing a comparable good job on what works wrong for the ukrainians, and their losses.

If we would trust the hey-hurray message and videos we get fed since one year, and they were true, then Ukriane should already have won a triumphant victory and Russia should have sunk and disappeared in the swamp already.

Note that we see the same happening in economics. Since one year the media feed us with how terribly hit the Russian economy is and that it can and must collapse just any day, so to speak. But it does not, and it keeps on finding solutions. And their growth, according to the ICF who recently compared countries on their outlooks this year and how they did last year, rates Russia over several Western countries or. You hear me, UK? Especially the UK would love to exchange its own with the russian numbers. And Russia will cointinue to stay in control of many precious and sometimes quite rare ressources.

These videos show just one half of the - "optimised" - truth. The other half is not shown.

Now, I think its dangerous if you only get fed one-sided stuff like this, even if it is easy for you to like it. Because you get a wrong impression of the enemy and his capabilities, you start to underestimate him, you start to misinvest your own ressoruces, and you start to not get your timing right with your own actions and support.

What I propose , you ask, Catfish? I propose to not get carried away by PROPAGANDA. Remember what Colonel Reisner said: "Das Problem ist: wir lieben zu hören, was wir mögen. Aber das ist nicht die Wahrheit. Die Wahrheit ist oft sehr, sehr schmerzhaft. (...) Das wird nicht einfach vorbeigehen. Da braucht es Kraftanstrengungen." (The problem is: we love to hear what we like. But that is not the truth. The truth is often very, very painful. (...) This will not simply pass. It will take an effort.) I admit he said that in a slightly different context, but it nevertheless true for what I point at here. If we beleive the pictures, than the ukraine runs a perfect war, effortless almost, no blood, no sweat, no losses, slaughteirng th eorks like turkeys on a gunnery range. adnnthat probbaly happens. But no word on Ukrainian losses, and what the Russians do right. Obviouly they do thigns right, else they would no longer be there, and would not advance. When General Milley, US chief of staff, some weeks ago mentioned that the Ukrainian's losses are as high as that of the Russians, the world media went howling. On EU level, I think it was Superuschi said something similiar, and immediately a storm of indignation arose. But remember: the Ukrainian offensive south-east of Charkiv in the East finally bogged down (too early for their plans) due to extensive losses of the ukrianians, and they had to fold over their plan for a third offensive move towards Mariupol (to get in range for attacking the Kerch bridges) - they had suffered way too high casualties .

If you are not realistic in your views of reality, also those parts of it that are unwelcomed, then you will and cannot adress it in ways that match it. You will try erratic "solutions" designed for your own fictional model your mind formed of reality, but that is not reality, and does not describe it correctly. And these non-matching ideas then will fail in reality, turning things in reality for the worse. And then we scratch our heads and wonder what the heck went wrong.

We love to hear - and see - what we like. But that must not be the truth.

On a much more profane level, these videos kill my nerves. They are simply not ticking the boxes for me, not their music, not the way they are directed like action movies, not the way they try to appeal to people's sense of entertainment. I am simply allergic to propaganda like this, no matter the context. They did not nicknamed me "Sushi" for no reason when I was young. I found the Nazis' Wochenschau movies stupid, too. Or the movies reporters did in Vietnam, the music, the phrasing, everything. Or the videogame show from the Gulf War 91.

Polit officers must hate people like me.

In this context it is worth to also be aware of that there is one fundamental differnce in interests of NATO and Kyiv, and a compromise is not possible on this difference: NATO at no cost wants to get drawn into this war. Kyiv wants to acchieve right this: that NATO enters the war on behalf of the ukraine. Never forget this fundamental split in interests. All what Zelensky says and does and wishes, must be seen in this light. This is politics. We may or may not agree with their official goals and positions, but that is the official political course our governments so far follow.

tonschk · 02-12-23, 08:39 PM

Elon Musk’s strike on War Criminal and Terrorist Dictator zelensky; Ukrainian Army banned from using Starlink tech for drone war

August · 02-13-23, 01:17 AM

Jimbuna · 02-13-23, 04:13 AM

Ukraine war: Russians slowly take ground around Bakhmut

By Orla Guerin
BBC News, Bakhmut

"Stay close to the wall. Move fast. Single file. Just a few at a time."

The staccato instructions come from the Ukrainian army escort taking us to a military position in battle-scarred Bakhmut, a city once famed for its sparkling wines.

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has called the eastern city "our fortress". Russian forces have spent the past six months trying to capture Bakhmut. Now they have intensified their onslaught - Ukraine believes - to tear it down ahead of the anniversary of the invasion.

We follow orders, darting down an icy rubble-strewn street, with a clear blue sky overhead - ideal for Russian drones.

Just after we cross the road, two Russian shells come slamming down behind us on the other side. We turn around to see black smoke rising and keep on running.

Was the shelling random or aimed at us? We can't be sure, but everything that moves in Bakhmut is a target - soldier or civilian.

For hours there is no let-up in the shelling, incoming and outgoing. A Russian fighter jet roars overhead. The nearest Russian troops are just two kilometres away.

There is street fighting in some areas, but Ukrainian forces still hold the city - despite sub-zero temperatures and dwindling ammunition.

"We have some shortages of ammunition of all kinds, especially artillery rounds," says Capt Mykhailo from the 93rd Mechanised Brigade, whose call sign is 'Polyglot'. "We also need encrypted communication devices from our Western allies, and some armoured personnel carriers to move troops around. But we still manage. One of the main lessons of this war is how to fight with limited resources."

We get an insight into the ammunition problems as Ukrainian troops target a Russian position with 60mm mortars. The first mortar round flies from the tube with a loud bang. The second round doesn't eject.

There's a hiss of smoke and a shout of "misfire" sending the mortar unit scrambling for cover. Troops tell us the ammunition is old stock, sent from abroad.

The battle for Bakhmut is a war within a war. Some of the fiercest fighting of the invasion has happened here. And now the Kremlin's forces are gaining ground, metre by metre, body by body. Wave after wave of mercenaries from the notorious Wagner group have been sent into battle here. There are reports of fields of Russian corpses.

Moscow now has effective control of both main roads into the city, leaving just one back route left - a slender supply line.

"They have been trying to take the city since July," says Iryna, press officer of the 93rd Brigade. "Little by little they are winning now. They have more resources, so if they play the long game they will win. I can't say how long it will take.

"Maybe they will run out of resources. I really hope so."

We move from carefully concealed firing positions to bunkers humming with generators and warmed by stoves. But troops take care to conceal any smoke which could give away their location - part of the housekeeping of war. Among those we meet there is calm determination to fight on.

"They are trying to encircle us so that we leave the city, but it's not working," says Ihor, a camouflage-clad commander, with a battle-hardened edge. "The city is under control. Transport moves, despite constant artillery strikes. Of course, we have losses from our side, but we are holding on. We only have one option - to keep going to victory."

There is another option - to withdraw from Bakhmut before it's too late. But among the defenders on the ground there seems little appetite for that. "If we have such an order from our HQ, OK, order is order," says Captain Myhailo. "But what sense to hold all these months if you need to retreat from this city? No, we don't want to do this."

He recalls those who have given their lives for Bakhmut - "a lot of good brave men who just love this country."

And if the defenders of Bakhmut were to withdraw, it would pave the way for Russia to push towards bigger cities in eastern Ukraine like Kramatorsk and Slovyansk.

Moscow has stepped up its attacks in other front-line areas in the Donbas region in the east, and in the south. Ukrainian officials say a new Russian offensive is already under way.

The Kremlin is on a clock, as it counts down to the anniversary on 24 February. "They are mad about dates and so-called 'victory days'," says Capt Mykhailo.

But the battle of attrition for Bakhmut could wear out the Russians, according to Viktor, a tall, lean Ukrainian commander who has captured Russian magazines on a shelf in his bunker.

"They don't defend now," he says, "they just attack. They continue taking some metres, but we are trying to make sure they take as little of our land as possible. We are holding the enemy here and wearing them out."

Perhaps.

There is still some life in Bakhmut if you know where to find it.

A blast of heat and light hits you when you walk through the door of the "invincibility hub", past boxes of donated food supplies. It's a boxing club turned life-support system where local people can recharge their phones and themselves, with hot food and companionship.

It was crowded when we visited, with elderly women clustered around a stove, and two young boys sitting in the boxing ring, glued to a TV screen, and playing war games.

Around 5,000 civilians remain in Bakhmut without running water or power - many are elderly and poor. "Some are pro-Moscow. They are waiting for the Russians," a Ukrainian colleague mutters darkly.

All here are fighting their own battles says Tetiana, a 23-year-old psychologist who is at the hub watching over her young brother and sister. She's still in Bakhmut because her 86-year-old grandmother can't move and relies on her.

"Most people deal with it by praying to God," she says. "Faith helps. Some forget that they are people. Some show aggression. They start behaving worse than animals."

Back outside the battle for this broken city rages on, with a drum beat of shelling as we leave.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64596363

Jimbuna · 02-13-23, 04:19 AM

tonschk · 02-13-23, 09:12 AM

Enjoy and Rejoice your Terrorist Criminal regime Dictator zelensky playing Piano for you Enjoy

les green01 · 02-13-23, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonschk

Enjoy and Rejoice your Terrorist Criminal regime Dictator zelensky playing Piano for you Enjoy

you getting that desperate to play a video with guys with pants down to their ankles not my kind of music heck going do that throw in some nude girls but then they probly be some commies little ruskies pansties crap heads think im going have to leave here for awhile im going end up getting a ban and dont need neal and jim to work to hard

Commander Wallace · 02-13-23, 10:59 AM

A force Russia built up in Luhansk Oblast went on the offensive in the vicinity of the town of Kreminna, where Ukrainian forces had been advancing slowly until recently, with Luhansk Governor Serhiy Hayday reporting that Ukrainian troops were “on the defensive” in that area now.

Meanwhile, in Vuhledar, the Russians attacked with columns of armor. However, the attack was repulsed with heavy losses of men and equipment, according both to Ukrainian sources and Russian military bloggers.
The record loss brings the total of Russian troops reported killed by Ukraine to 138,880 since the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion and war in Ukraine, which started almost a year ago, on Feb. 24, 2022

The invading forces have also lost a total of over 20,000 units of equipment since the start of the full-scale invasion, among them (loss over past day in parentheses):
personnel — about 136,880 (+1,140)
tanks — 3,267 (+9)
armored combat vehicles — 6,474 (+3)
artillery systems — 2,270 (+19)
multiple launch rocket systems — 463 (+0)
air defense systems — 234 (+1)
warplanes — 295 (+0)
helicopters — 286 (+0)
UAVs of operational and tactical level — 1,997 (+27)
cruise missiles — 857 (+61)
warships/military vessels — 18 (+0)
motor vehicles and fuel tankers — 5,134 (+8)
special equipment — 214 (+3)

The figures are being verified, according to Ukraine’s General Staff.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-r...111900156.html

02-12-23, 04:08 PM	#9783
tonschk Admiral Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,200 Downloads: 172 Uploads: 0	Italians Ban Terrorist Dictator zelensky https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/z...ival-dlz8mrjk0 __________________ What we do in life echoes in Eternity

02-12-23, 05:41 PM	#9788
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,726 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Guys, I just point out that we have sometimes reasonable sources with probably more correct than incorrect descriptions for describing what goes wrong for the Russians - but that we have no complement for trustworthy sources from anywhere doing a comparable good job on what works wrong for the ukrainians, and their losses. If we would trust the hey-hurray message and videos we get fed since one year, and they were true, then Ukriane should already have won a triumphant victory and Russia should have sunk and disappeared in the swamp already. Note that we see the same happening in economics. Since one year the media feed us with how terribly hit the Russian economy is and that it can and must collapse just any day, so to speak. But it does not, and it keeps on finding solutions. And their growth, according to the ICF who recently compared countries on their outlooks this year and how they did last year, rates Russia over several Western countries or. You hear me, UK? Especially the UK would love to exchange its own with the russian numbers. And Russia will cointinue to stay in control of many precious and sometimes quite rare ressources. These videos show just one half of the - "optimised" - truth. The other half is not shown. Now, I think its dangerous if you only get fed one-sided stuff like this, even if it is easy for you to like it. Because you get a wrong impression of the enemy and his capabilities, you start to underestimate him, you start to misinvest your own ressoruces, and you start to not get your timing right with your own actions and support. What I propose , you ask, Catfish? I propose to not get carried away by PROPAGANDA. Remember what Colonel Reisner said: "Das Problem ist: wir lieben zu hören, was wir mögen. Aber das ist nicht die Wahrheit. Die Wahrheit ist oft sehr, sehr schmerzhaft. (...) Das wird nicht einfach vorbeigehen. Da braucht es Kraftanstrengungen." (The problem is: we love to hear what we like. But that is not the truth. The truth is often very, very painful. (...) This will not simply pass. It will take an effort.) I admit he said that in a slightly different context, but it nevertheless true for what I point at here. If we beleive the pictures, than the ukraine runs a perfect war, effortless almost, no blood, no sweat, no losses, slaughteirng th eorks like turkeys on a gunnery range. adnnthat probbaly happens. But no word on Ukrainian losses, and what the Russians do right. Obviouly they do thigns right, else they would no longer be there, and would not advance. When General Milley, US chief of staff, some weeks ago mentioned that the Ukrainian's losses are as high as that of the Russians, the world media went howling. On EU level, I think it was Superuschi said something similiar, and immediately a storm of indignation arose. But remember: the Ukrainian offensive south-east of Charkiv in the East finally bogged down (too early for their plans) due to extensive losses of the ukrianians, and they had to fold over their plan for a third offensive move towards Mariupol (to get in range for attacking the Kerch bridges) - they had suffered way too high casualties . If you are not realistic in your views of reality, also those parts of it that are unwelcomed, then you will and cannot adress it in ways that match it. You will try erratic "solutions" designed for your own fictional model your mind formed of reality, but that is not reality, and does not describe it correctly. And these non-matching ideas then will fail in reality, turning things in reality for the worse. And then we scratch our heads and wonder what the heck went wrong. We love to hear - and see - what we like. But that must not be the truth. On a much more profane level, these videos kill my nerves. They are simply not ticking the boxes for me, not their music, not the way they are directed like action movies, not the way they try to appeal to people's sense of entertainment. I am simply allergic to propaganda like this, no matter the context. They did not nicknamed me "Sushi" for no reason when I was young. I found the Nazis' Wochenschau movies stupid, too. Or the movies reporters did in Vietnam, the music, the phrasing, everything. Or the videogame show from the Gulf War 91. Polit officers must hate people like me. In this context it is worth to also be aware of that there is one fundamental differnce in interests of NATO and Kyiv, and a compromise is not possible on this difference: NATO at no cost wants to get drawn into this war. Kyiv wants to acchieve right this: that NATO enters the war on behalf of the ukraine. Never forget this fundamental split in interests. All what Zelensky says and does and wishes, must be seen in this light. This is politics. We may or may not agree with their official goals and positions, but that is the official political course our governments so far follow. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 02-12-23 at 06:09 PM.

02-12-23, 08:39 PM	#9789
tonschk Admiral Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,200 Downloads: 172 Uploads: 0	Elon Musk’s strike on War Criminal and Terrorist Dictator zelensky; Ukrainian Army banned from using Starlink tech for drone war __________________ What we do in life echoes in Eternity

02-13-23, 01:17 AM	#9790
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,233 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	__________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

02-13-23, 04:13 AM	#9791
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,044 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Ukraine war: Russians slowly take ground around Bakhmut By Orla Guerin BBC News, Bakhmut "Stay close to the wall. Move fast. Single file. Just a few at a time." The staccato instructions come from the Ukrainian army escort taking us to a military position in battle-scarred Bakhmut, a city once famed for its sparkling wines. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has called the eastern city "our fortress". Russian forces have spent the past six months trying to capture Bakhmut. Now they have intensified their onslaught - Ukraine believes - to tear it down ahead of the anniversary of the invasion. We follow orders, darting down an icy rubble-strewn street, with a clear blue sky overhead - ideal for Russian drones. Just after we cross the road, two Russian shells come slamming down behind us on the other side. We turn around to see black smoke rising and keep on running. Was the shelling random or aimed at us? We can't be sure, but everything that moves in Bakhmut is a target - soldier or civilian. For hours there is no let-up in the shelling, incoming and outgoing. A Russian fighter jet roars overhead. The nearest Russian troops are just two kilometres away. There is street fighting in some areas, but Ukrainian forces still hold the city - despite sub-zero temperatures and dwindling ammunition. "We have some shortages of ammunition of all kinds, especially artillery rounds," says Capt Mykhailo from the 93rd Mechanised Brigade, whose call sign is 'Polyglot'. "We also need encrypted communication devices from our Western allies, and some armoured personnel carriers to move troops around. But we still manage. One of the main lessons of this war is how to fight with limited resources." We get an insight into the ammunition problems as Ukrainian troops target a Russian position with 60mm mortars. The first mortar round flies from the tube with a loud bang. The second round doesn't eject. There's a hiss of smoke and a shout of "misfire" sending the mortar unit scrambling for cover. Troops tell us the ammunition is old stock, sent from abroad. The battle for Bakhmut is a war within a war. Some of the fiercest fighting of the invasion has happened here. And now the Kremlin's forces are gaining ground, metre by metre, body by body. Wave after wave of mercenaries from the notorious Wagner group have been sent into battle here. There are reports of fields of Russian corpses. Moscow now has effective control of both main roads into the city, leaving just one back route left - a slender supply line. "They have been trying to take the city since July," says Iryna, press officer of the 93rd Brigade. "Little by little they are winning now. They have more resources, so if they play the long game they will win. I can't say how long it will take. "Maybe they will run out of resources. I really hope so." We move from carefully concealed firing positions to bunkers humming with generators and warmed by stoves. But troops take care to conceal any smoke which could give away their location - part of the housekeeping of war. Among those we meet there is calm determination to fight on. "They are trying to encircle us so that we leave the city, but it's not working," says Ihor, a camouflage-clad commander, with a battle-hardened edge. "The city is under control. Transport moves, despite constant artillery strikes. Of course, we have losses from our side, but we are holding on. We only have one option - to keep going to victory." There is another option - to withdraw from Bakhmut before it's too late. But among the defenders on the ground there seems little appetite for that. "If we have such an order from our HQ, OK, order is order," says Captain Myhailo. "But what sense to hold all these months if you need to retreat from this city? No, we don't want to do this." He recalls those who have given their lives for Bakhmut - "a lot of good brave men who just love this country." And if the defenders of Bakhmut were to withdraw, it would pave the way for Russia to push towards bigger cities in eastern Ukraine like Kramatorsk and Slovyansk. Moscow has stepped up its attacks in other front-line areas in the Donbas region in the east, and in the south. Ukrainian officials say a new Russian offensive is already under way. The Kremlin is on a clock, as it counts down to the anniversary on 24 February. "They are mad about dates and so-called 'victory days'," says Capt Mykhailo. But the battle of attrition for Bakhmut could wear out the Russians, according to Viktor, a tall, lean Ukrainian commander who has captured Russian magazines on a shelf in his bunker. "They don't defend now," he says, "they just attack. They continue taking some metres, but we are trying to make sure they take as little of our land as possible. We are holding the enemy here and wearing them out." Perhaps. There is still some life in Bakhmut if you know where to find it. A blast of heat and light hits you when you walk through the door of the "invincibility hub", past boxes of donated food supplies. It's a boxing club turned life-support system where local people can recharge their phones and themselves, with hot food and companionship. It was crowded when we visited, with elderly women clustered around a stove, and two young boys sitting in the boxing ring, glued to a TV screen, and playing war games. Around 5,000 civilians remain in Bakhmut without running water or power - many are elderly and poor. "Some are pro-Moscow. They are waiting for the Russians," a Ukrainian colleague mutters darkly. All here are fighting their own battles says Tetiana, a 23-year-old psychologist who is at the hub watching over her young brother and sister. She's still in Bakhmut because her 86-year-old grandmother can't move and relies on her. "Most people deal with it by praying to God," she says. "Faith helps. Some forget that they are people. Some show aggression. They start behaving worse than animals." Back outside the battle for this broken city rages on, with a drum beat of shelling as we leave. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64596363 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

02-13-23, 04:19 AM	#9792
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,044 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

02-13-23, 09:12 AM	#9793
tonschk Admiral Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,200 Downloads: 172 Uploads: 0	Enjoy and Rejoice your Terrorist Criminal regime Dictator zelensky playing Piano for you Enjoy __________________ What we do in life echoes in Eternity

02-13-23, 10:59 AM	#9795
Commander Wallace Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Under the sea in an Octupus garden in the shade Posts: 5,325 Downloads: 366 Uploads: 0	A force Russia built up in Luhansk Oblast went on the offensive in the vicinity of the town of Kreminna, where Ukrainian forces had been advancing slowly until recently, with Luhansk Governor Serhiy Hayday reporting that Ukrainian troops were “on the defensive” in that area now. Meanwhile, in Vuhledar, the Russians attacked with columns of armor. However, the attack was repulsed with heavy losses of men and equipment, according both to Ukrainian sources and Russian military bloggers. The record loss brings the total of Russian troops reported killed by Ukraine to 138,880 since the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion and war in Ukraine, which started almost a year ago, on Feb. 24, 2022 The invading forces have also lost a total of over 20,000 units of equipment since the start of the full-scale invasion, among them (loss over past day in parentheses): personnel — about 136,880 (+1,140) tanks — 3,267 (+9) armored combat vehicles — 6,474 (+3) artillery systems — 2,270 (+19) multiple launch rocket systems — 463 (+0) air defense systems — 234 (+1) warplanes — 295 (+0) helicopters — 286 (+0) UAVs of operational and tactical level — 1,997 (+27) cruise missiles — 857 (+61) warships/military vessels — 18 (+0) motor vehicles and fuel tankers — 5,134 (+8) special equipment — 214 (+3) The figures are being verified, according to Ukraine’s General Staff. https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-r...111900156.html