UK Politics Thread

[Skybird]

People not voting what they are supposed to vote for, must be taught a lesson - as hard as necessary to teach them.

Let a state even just once regulate even just the smallest of things that even is supposed to be in favour of the best interest of the people - and from there on it will press on to regulate ever more things, and then not so minor things anymore, and then ever more fundamental things, and then people'S private things, and, then even society'S communal interests, and then the way people are allowed to think about it, and then how poeple are allowed to feel about it, and then training them not to think and not to feel about anything anymore in a not officially permitted way, and so you turn freedom and "democracy" (tm by modern times) into tyranny and totalitarian suppression - and you must not even call it by the latter names, for it is all in best interest of people.

Every democracy, and any other form of state, always, necessarily, unavoidably, must and will turn into stricter and stricter dictatorships over time. Always. States always must end in this.

And both May and the EU show the underlying attitude behind pushing things this way. From social crusade over paternalism to tyrannising, its always the same basic pattern.

[Skybird]

Dr. Daniel Stelter is the founder of the strategy and macroeconomic discussion forum "Beyond the Obvious" and business consultant. Previously, Stelter was with the Boston Consulting Group (BCG) from 1990 to 2013, most recently as Senior Partner, Managing Director and member of the BCG Executive Committee.
His current book "The Fairytale of the Rich Land - How Politics Ruined Us" is currently on the SPIEGEL Bestseller List.

This time, Google Translator deliveres one of its more rocky rides, unfortunately. I still don't get it why its quality varies so tremedously from session to session. It can be brilliant, it can result in something that one is unable to comprehend - or it can be in the middle between the two.

https://translate.google.de/translat..._10529341.html

[Jimbuna]

So terribly hypocritical when you consider the majority of Labour held areas voted for a Brexit.

It would appear Steptoe will attempt to use any trick in the book to bring about a general election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47776505

[Skybird]

In light of the coming storm, the UK maybe will end up at the lucky side of things if leaving the EU.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...nancial-crisis

Today, the EU is threatened with Brexit, which at the time of writing is yet to be resolved. But there’s a significant possibility Britain will leave the EU without a comprehensive trade deal and without paying all the money allegedly owed to the EU. The money will have to be made up by the other members, principally by Germany, France, Italy and Spain, being the largest remaining economies. Furthermore, the UK’s economic policy is bound to focus on being a competitive regional entrepôt for global trade, enhancing her economic performance relative to a stultifying EU. Existing political tensions within the EU are certain to escalate as the EU falls behind, and Brussels, hooked on profligacy, for the first time faces budget cuts. It is becoming increasingly obvious to independent observers that the EU supra-national socializing model is failing structurally, politically, economically and financially. The next credit crisis, which appears to be evolving from the seeds of today’s events, looks set to end the European dream.

Imagine the hate Britain will face if it comes this way and the UK finds itself getting done with the conseqeuences easier than the rest of Europe! In thta scenario, of course all the EU's damages and ends will be the fault of the UK. "We would have succeeded if Britain would not have betrayed us!"

[Mr Quatro]

This works for my thoughts of vengeance on the men against the UK leaving EU (on both sides of the problem) which is simply this ... That the UK would leave EU without making a deal and then as the days, weeks, months and even years go by the UK would prove that they did the right thing and the UK does not become a laughing stock of the world.

Adding one more wish for Ireland and Scotland to exit EU too

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

This works for my thoughts of vengeance on the men against the UK leaving EU (on both sides of the problem) which is simply this ... That the UK would leave EU without making a deal and then as the days, weeks, months and even years go by the UK would prove that they did the right thing and the UK does not become a laughing stock of the world.

Adding one more wish for Ireland and Scotland to exit EU too

While the Pound is a FIAT fake money like Dollar and Euro, at least the British were wise enough to opt out of the Euro. Thats the spirit that I counted on, that I expected when all Brexit drama started three years ago. Instead: harmony, consent, wishy-washy, daydreaming...


Brexit was a decision that had to be carried out in a rude manner, and it did need no harmony-craving sympathy-getters, but tough, lonely fighers not caring to stand all alone as long as only they could stand tall. There is time for friendliness, and there is time for being detetmined, and grumpy if needed. These two were terribly mixed up. Britain should have aimed from beginning on to leave in anger, and being resolute.

[Jimbuna]

I certainly don't want to appear as being too patriotic but the EU may well find it could and should have been a little more prudent in its assessment of the UK.

History should tell them that we have been led by incompetents in the past but cometh the hour in time of national need, the lion comes to the fore and the UK has survived.

Now whether that is the case now is a matter of opinion but once the present incumbent is moved on we shall see.

Having said all that, my money is firmly on a remain outcome but accompanied by much internal bitter resentment.

[Jimbuna]

Here's the live link to the MP's debate over the four Brexit options if anyone is interested. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-47772688

I'm certainly not, I'm off for a pint or three whilst watching TOON play Arsenal on the tv.

[Catfish]

"UK immigration rules ‘deny’ NI-born Irish citizens access to EU rights"

[...] because the UK government has taken the position that all people of Northern Ireland are British by birth under the British Nationality Act 1981, a presupposition that [...] goes against the Good Friday Agreement right to be Irish or British or both as you so choose”.

Seems the 'backstop' is only one of a hundred homemade problems
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...ghts-1.3846117

[Jimbuna]

I must admit that after the TOON match last night I watched events in Parliament unfold on the BBC news channel.

Last week we saw a failure to agree on eight alternative motions and last night an identical result on a further four, making twelve collective failures.

One can only presume now that Parliament is dysfunctional and no longer fit for purpose.

I fear the end game will be an eventual majority for the revocation of Article 50 and the public realising eventually Parliament have forgotten or are simply ignoring the vitally important fact that they were elected by the people to carry out the will of the people, something that 85% of them voted for in their last election manifesto.

Come the next election and in light of the fact that each individual MP's vote is automatically made public I wouldn't mind seeing something along the lines of a night of the long knives (forgive my choice of phrase) culminating in each MP that represents a constituency that voted to leave being de-selected by their local party.

Only then will we have any chance of bringing about any credibility back into British politics.

One must never forget that this was all brung about by a Tory Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer in the first place then handed over to a pro-remain successor who was quite happy to agree to what a great many millions of our country see as being nothing short of a surrender document.

What is even more worrying is the knowledge that an anti-royalist, a republican, someone with terrorist sympathies and the most horribly hypocritical voting record in modern times is waiting in the wings to drive the final nails into our once proud nations coffin.

Rant over....now to enjoy the rest of my day off

[Jimbuna]

A no-deal Brexit is now more likely but can still be avoided, the EU's chief negotiator has said.

Michel Barnier said a long extension to the UK's 12 April exit date had "significant risks for the EU" and a "strong justification would be needed".

His usual stance is to leave it to the government in the UK to sort out its own business but also retains a penchant for sticking his nose in when it suits.

One suggestion has been the possibility of a general election - but former foreign secretary Boris Johnson told BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg that would be likely to "infuriate" voters.

Instead, Mr Johnson said he believed a new leader and "change in negotiation tactic" could "retrofit" the PM's "terrible" agreement with the EU.

Boris, you ran away quite a few weeks ago so really shouldn't be taken all that seriously.

Mr Barnier told the European Parliament's foreign affairs committee that "things are somewhat hanging on the decisions of the House of Commons", and that the deal was negotiated with the UK "not against the UK".

A strong topic for debate here in the UK.

[Catfish]

Can someone enlighten me what is so bad about the current proposed deal (being voted off anyway i know, and some), apart from the "backstop"? How does it make England a Vassal state? When reading through all this stuff it does not look like the UK would be so bad off, instead the EU offered more than i would have

It becomes a vassall state (war talk by propaganda jerks b.t.w.) by not having a say in the EU after brexit? You get out and want to still have your say in the EU?

"You cannot have all of the advantages of being the member of the club when you are out of the club. I think that our British friends who invented clubs can understand that."

The EU is essentially a club, into which members pay fees in exchange for certain benefits. Among other things, membership allows preferential treatment on the trade of goods and services. Leaving that club means losing that preferential treatment. If it didn't, then there would be no point in being a member. It is not threatening a "punishment beating" to point this out. It is merely stating facts.


The UK voted for a worse relationship with the EU in exchange for a supposed better relationship with everyone else. No one exactly knows why this should be the case, but.. well go on and try.

And just a reminder, it is the WTO which demands closed borders in Ireland in case of the UK leaving the EU and joining the WTO and its laws. It is up to the UK (and the EU, but .. why exactly) to find another solution.
Brexit and the British politics are captured by the extreme right and left. Both factions now want a hard Brexit – though for different reasons.
If the EU is reluctant it is being bashed as arrogant and not interested.
If it makes proposals it is being regarded to interfere with the UK's sovereignty.
It is entirely wrong and ridiculous.

But if the UK breaks out with no deal the WTO rules will apply.

[JU_88]

I've honestly lost interest at this point. and lost track of exactly what the deal is now.
for fun i googled 'Theresa may's deal explained' along with todays date.

Here are the top 6 totally "fair and balanced" sources that came up.

Vox, The independent. the Gaurdian.
Rebel Media, the Express, Daily mail.

Ugh....

Maybe you can be bothered read those 6 totally not horribly biased spin artists - and try to piece together some kind of sanity that's vaguely grounded in reality, but I can't -at least not right now anyway.

LBC came up as well (they are decent) but, their explanation appeared to lack any real depth.

[Jimbuna]

^ Hereby lies the problem, both parties reached an agreement on a deal but one party (admittedly the UK side) refused to be inclusive with interested parties on their side and agreed a crap deal (hence all the currently ongoing hullabaloo).

In an ideal world the UK takes control of her borders, immigration and laws but said deal in its current form does not satisfy all partie on the UK side unfortunately.

One example of future trade negotiations would certainly be Macron demanding fishing rights in UK territorial waters if nothing else other than to scratch one of the many itches the yellow vests currently trouble him with and I'm sure you and I could find many more examples from other countries if we made the effort.

The UK currently imports much more from the EU than it exports to it so I suppose that is one positive but ultimately I believe the UK is prepared to decimate tarrifs in order to maintain what industrial muscle it has remaining and the EU would seriously damage itself if it tried to follow suit.

That as far as I'm concerned is one of the EU's weaknesses, taking forever and a day to negotiate and reach unanimous agreements with all member states. Heck, the President can't even decide on what constitutes a pair of matching shoes!!

I'm still thinking in terms of the UK remaining in the EU but should that be the case I fear for future relations born out of historical resentment for what has transpired since 2016.

EDIT: The above is in response to the post by Catfish.

[Jimbuna]

JUST IN!

Theresa May says UK needs extension to Brexit and offers to work with Labour's Jeremy Corbyn to end stalemate https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47794235