UK Politics Thread - Page 629

Catfish · 03-13-19, 02:55 PM

@Strand This guy has deserved the highest civil medal indeed, and i guess staying in the EU for any UK citizen will not be a problem whatever becomes off brexit. Umm maybe in Romania, or Hungary..

@Steed Can someone explain to me what they are up to?

STEED · 03-13-19, 02:57 PM

Result of the three votes

Quote:

MPs have voted to pass the Spelman Amendment by 312 votes to 308.

The amendment states the UK rejects leaving the EU without a deal, in any circumstance.

Quote:

MPs have voted down the Malthouse Amendment by votes 374 to 164.

The amendment would have instructed the government to extend Article 50 until 22 May, and offer a transitional phase, with no backstop.

Quote:

MPs APPROVE AMENDED GOVERNMENT MOTION

Votes for: 321
Votes against: 278

https://news.sky.com/story/live-gove...plans-11663829

STEED · 03-13-19, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

@Steed Can someone explain to me what they are up to?

Parliament has just broken the law by not leaving the EU on March 29th, as said by a Ben Bradley MP.

Skybird · 03-13-19, 03:34 PM

"We can see too the crystallisation of a constitutional crisis - one that has been a long time coming. "One where the Commons repeatedly tries to instruct the govt and where the govt refuses because they say they act upon a higher authority - the 'will of the people'.
"Our ancient representative democracy simply cannot digest our recent crash diet of direct democracy.
"It has been percolating for months, for years.
"But the ultimate battle - between Commons, government and electorate is now here. "

From Steed's link.

With those votes' results of today, they have entangled themselves in contradictions. They want what is not possible to be had. Brexit the EU's way is no real Brexit and turns the UK into a vasall beign at the mercy oif the EU (which is set for punishment and executing a deterring example), Brexit the UK's way will not and will never be agreed on by the EU. They can negotiate this until hell freezes over - its two irreconcilable positions. And just becasue some UKlers want to talk does not mean that the EU wants to talk any longer, too.

From first week on two years ago I was irritatzed by the stamenets made by the British potlicians that to me just illustrated a splendid lack of sense of realism and dreamdancing.

STEED · 03-13-19, 03:51 PM

The odds on a people's referendum and a general election have increased. Well we shall see in days to come, reports of government minsters ignored the three line whips coming in. Some Jr minister resign but no major ones yet or any sackings.

UPDATE

17 Ministers went against May.

Parliament is now running Brexit not the Government.

No PM in their right mind would remain in office, clearly May has gone mad.

Catfish · 03-13-19, 04:42 PM

@Skybird and those other brexiters here:
How exactly does the UK become a vassal state when following May's brexit plan (there seems to be no other plan anyway?)? And, evidence please apart from buzzwords if you'd be so kind.

Skybird · 03-13-19, 04:46 PM

But it may be according to her real secret plan. To prevent Brexit.

One cannot say this often enough: until the Brexit referendum, May was pro EU and against a Brexit and the very referendum. And this should have changed over night, from one day to the next, just because the referendum? C'mon man!

She probably sees herself as a martyr sacrificing herself for the better of the country: a country not doing a real Brexit, that is.

There are only two realistic explanations that really make sense: the above, or that she indeed is a living braindead zombie, a total retard, stubborn but dumb like a log of wood. But the cooperation between her and the EU, the effort from day one on to bring the crisis to this boiling point and to play down the clock to maximise pressure on the parliament, is too obviously contradicting the assumption that she is just stupid.

This is a martyr on a mission. And maybe she plays it smarter than many others, including Johnson and Corbyn. I say: reward her an Oscar for each of the past two years!

Skybird · 03-13-19, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

@Skybird and those other brexiters here:
How exactly does the UK become a vassal state when following May's brexit plan (there seems to be no other plan anyway?)? And, evidence please apart from buzzwords if you'd be so kind.

You have asked this question two or three times in this thread now, and every time got answers from me and I think from others. Full, valid, realistic answers. Take it or leave it.

Catfish · 03-13-19, 05:33 PM

No you always use the rhetorics and buzzwaords like "Eu slaves", the Uk becoming a "vassall state" and conspiracies of whatnot and May trying to evade a brexit. Bull.
How. does. the. backstop. make. the. UK. a. "vassal state".

The EU has made it perfectly clear from day one that it will not accept a hard border between Ireland and the EU when Ireland does not wish this.

You mean that the UK or whoever of the 50+percent demand to remain in the EU single market while not accepting the EU's trade regulations framework? So to be in the EU after brexit for decisions and trade while not being a member? Sorry, no deal. Either in, or out. You cannot have parallel lines that cross each other.
Whatever happens: deal, hard brexit or no brexit, there will be one future to decide, and it is not the decision of the EU.

What can anyone expect from a further time to discuss, The Netherlands have already made clear they will not accept a further diversion by the UK, and one veto of the 27 EU countries is enough. UK parliament has also decided against a further delay, so there's no point in discussing that anymore.
Thinking of the EU reformation and forthcoming elections i understand that the EU does not want the UK chaos swap over, so maybe a hard brexit is now even in the interest of the EU.

B.t.w. here's the withdrawal paper: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...greement_0.pdf, for anyone to read and criticize, no trap and no blurring anything.

"Vassal":

"Historically, the term comes from feudal times, when a “vassal” was someone who held land if they promised allegiance to a prince or king, with obligations often including military support in exchange for certain privileges.
Usage of the term developed over time to refer to those who were subordinate to others, and it featured as such in Sonnet 58 by William Shakespeare, when the bard called himself a “vassal” to his lover.

Politically, a number of empires set up vassal states over time, which were based on tribes, kingdoms, or city-states controlling subjects without having to conquer or govern them.

The country that became a vassal state lost an independent say in its foreign policy, while also providing troops or paying tribute when the ‘senior ally’ asked them to.

In the current sense, there’s nothing to suggest that any of this will happen under the terms of the draft withdrawal agreement.

Just don’t be surprised if the term continues to pop up between now and Britain’s departure from the EU."

Reece · 03-13-19, 06:36 PM

Although the Queen doesn't hold much clout I think it is about time she made a statement to the fact that the politicians must do what the people/voters want, no matter how hard it is.

mapuc · 03-13-19, 06:43 PM

EU and the Article 50.

From all what I have heard and read about this Article 50 in the EU-something.

It seems to me they have made this article so complicated and
bureaucratically that it's almost impossible for a member to leave EU.

Markus

Reece · 03-13-19, 07:20 PM

What are they going to do if England leaves breaking Article 50?

Skybird · 03-13-19, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

No you always use the rhetorics and buzzwaords like "Eu slaves", the Uk becoming a "vassall state" and conspiracies of whatnot and May trying to evade a brexit. Bull.
How. does. the. backstop. make. the. UK. a. "vassal state".

The EU has made it perfectly clear from day one that it will not accept a hard border between Ireland and the EU when Ireland does not wish this.

You mean that the UK or whoever of the 50+percent demand to remain in the EU single market while not accepting the EU's trade regulations framework? So to be in the EU after brexit for decisions and trade while not being a member? Sorry, no deal. Either in, or out. You cannot have parallel lines that cross each other.
Whatever happens: deal, hard brexit or no brexit, there will be one future to decide, and it is not the decision of the EU.

What can anyone expect from a further time to discuss, The Netherlands have already made clear they will not accept a further diversion by the UK, and one veto of the 27 EU countries is enough. UK parliament has also decided against a further delay, so there's no point in discussing that anymore.
Thinking of the EU reformation and forthcoming elections i understand that the EU does not want the UK chaos swap over, so maybe a hard brexit is now even in the interest of the EU.

B.t.w. here's the withdrawal paper: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...greement_0.pdf, for anyone to read and criticize, no trap and no blurring anything.

"Vassal":

"Historically, the term comes from feudal times, when a “vassal” was someone who held land if they promised allegiance to a prince or king, with obligations often including military support in exchange for certain privileges.
Usage of the term developed over time to refer to those who were subordinate to others, and it featured as such in Sonnet 58 by William Shakespeare, when the bard called himself a “vassal” to his lover.

Politically, a number of empires set up vassal states over time, which were based on tribes, kingdoms, or city-states controlling subjects without having to conquer or govern them.

The country that became a vassal state lost an independent say in its foreign policy, while also providing troops or paying tribute when the ‘senior ally’ asked them to.

In the current sense, there’s nothing to suggest that any of this will happen under the terms of the draft withdrawal agreement.

Just don’t be surprised if the term continues to pop up between now and Britain’s departure from the EU."

Catfish, stop it. This obsession of yours to ignore the obvious if it helps to defend your beloved EU and to claim that it is playing fair and honest, by now has become stale and boring. You got your answer. Repeatedly. And you do not like it since it collides with your positive view of the EU. End of story.

Catfish · 03-14-19, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

[...] From all what I have heard and read about this Article 50 in the EU-something.
It seems to me they have made this article so complicated and
bureaucratically that it's almost impossible for a member to leave EU.
Markus

?
Article 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece

Although the Queen doesn't hold much clout I think it is about time she made a statement to the fact that the politicians must do what the people/voters want, no matter how hard it is.

Just of all the Queen to support what the voters want.. maybe right now she's thinking of abolishing democracy

Jimbuna · 03-14-19, 06:21 AM

Does anyone know the contact address for Guy Fawkes?

03-13-19, 02:55 PM	#9421
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,935 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	@Strand This guy has deserved the highest civil medal indeed, and i guess staying in the EU for any UK citizen will not be a problem whatever becomes off brexit. Umm maybe in Romania, or Hungary.. @Steed Can someone explain to me what they are up to? __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

03-13-19, 03:34 PM	#9424
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,741 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	"We can see too the crystallisation of a constitutional crisis - one that has been a long time coming. "One where the Commons repeatedly tries to instruct the govt and where the govt refuses because they say they act upon a higher authority - the 'will of the people'. "Our ancient representative democracy simply cannot digest our recent crash diet of direct democracy. "It has been percolating for months, for years. "But the ultimate battle - between Commons, government and electorate is now here. " From Steed's link. With those votes' results of today, they have entangled themselves in contradictions. They want what is not possible to be had. Brexit the EU's way is no real Brexit and turns the UK into a vasall beign at the mercy oif the EU (which is set for punishment and executing a deterring example), Brexit the UK's way will not and will never be agreed on by the EU. They can negotiate this until hell freezes over - its two irreconcilable positions. And just becasue some UKlers want to talk does not mean that the EU wants to talk any longer, too. From first week on two years ago I was irritatzed by the stamenets made by the British potlicians that to me just illustrated a splendid lack of sense of realism and dreamdancing. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-13-19, 03:51 PM	#9425
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	The odds on a people's referendum and a general election have increased. Well we shall see in days to come, reports of government minsters ignored the three line whips coming in. Some Jr minister resign but no major ones yet or any sackings. UPDATE 17 Ministers went against May. Parliament is now running Brexit not the Government. No PM in their right mind would remain in office, clearly May has gone mad. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT! Last edited by STEED; 03-13-19 at 04:10 PM.

03-13-19, 04:42 PM	#9426
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,935 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	@Skybird and those other brexiters here: How exactly does the UK become a vassal state when following May's brexit plan (there seems to be no other plan anyway?)? And, evidence please apart from buzzwords if you'd be so kind. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

03-13-19, 04:46 PM	#9427
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,741 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	But it may be according to her real secret plan. To prevent Brexit. One cannot say this often enough: until the Brexit referendum, May was pro EU and against a Brexit and the very referendum. And this should have changed over night, from one day to the next, just because the referendum? C'mon man! She probably sees herself as a martyr sacrificing herself for the better of the country: a country not doing a real Brexit, that is. There are only two realistic explanations that really make sense: the above, or that she indeed is a living braindead zombie, a total retard, stubborn but dumb like a log of wood. But the cooperation between her and the EU, the effort from day one on to bring the crisis to this boiling point and to play down the clock to maximise pressure on the parliament, is too obviously contradicting the assumption that she is just stupid. This is a martyr on a mission. And maybe she plays it smarter than many others, including Johnson and Corbyn. I say: reward her an Oscar for each of the past two years! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-13-19, 05:33 PM	#9429
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,935 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	No you always use the rhetorics and buzzwaords like "Eu slaves", the Uk becoming a "vassall state" and conspiracies of whatnot and May trying to evade a brexit. Bull. How. does. the. backstop. make. the. UK. a. "vassal state". The EU has made it perfectly clear from day one that it will not accept a hard border between Ireland and the EU when Ireland does not wish this. You mean that the UK or whoever of the 50+percent demand to remain in the EU single market while not accepting the EU's trade regulations framework? So to be in the EU after brexit for decisions and trade while not being a member? Sorry, no deal. Either in, or out. You cannot have parallel lines that cross each other. Whatever happens: deal, hard brexit or no brexit, there will be one future to decide, and it is not the decision of the EU. What can anyone expect from a further time to discuss, The Netherlands have already made clear they will not accept a further diversion by the UK, and one veto of the 27 EU countries is enough. UK parliament has also decided against a further delay, so there's no point in discussing that anymore. Thinking of the EU reformation and forthcoming elections i understand that the EU does not want the UK chaos swap over, so maybe a hard brexit is now even in the interest of the EU. B.t.w. here's the withdrawal paper: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...greement_0.pdf, for anyone to read and criticize, no trap and no blurring anything. "Vassal": "Historically, the term comes from feudal times, when a “vassal” was someone who held land if they promised allegiance to a prince or king, with obligations often including military support in exchange for certain privileges. Usage of the term developed over time to refer to those who were subordinate to others, and it featured as such in Sonnet 58 by William Shakespeare, when the bard called himself a “vassal” to his lover. Politically, a number of empires set up vassal states over time, which were based on tribes, kingdoms, or city-states controlling subjects without having to conquer or govern them. The country that became a vassal state lost an independent say in its foreign policy, while also providing troops or paying tribute when the ‘senior ally’ asked them to. In the current sense, there’s nothing to suggest that any of this will happen under the terms of the draft withdrawal agreement. Just don’t be surprised if the term continues to pop up between now and Britain’s departure from the EU." __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

03-13-19, 06:36 PM	#9430
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 32,934 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Although the Queen doesn't hold much clout I think it is about time she made a statement to the fact that the politicians must do what the people/voters want, no matter how hard it is. __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

03-13-19, 06:43 PM	#9431
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,285 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	EU and the Article 50. From all what I have heard and read about this Article 50 in the EU-something. It seems to me they have made this article so complicated and bureaucratically that it's almost impossible for a member to leave EU. Markus

03-13-19, 07:20 PM	#9432
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 32,934 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	What are they going to do if England leaves breaking Article 50? __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

03-14-19, 06:21 AM	#9435
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,900 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Does anyone know the contact address for Guy Fawkes? __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)