Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Susexx

I would like to believe you, but the reality is that ordinary citizens are already suffering and will continue to suffer. And old Joe's words are just words. For him, everything that needs to be decided and done. And so it is everywhere. Nothing depends on the elections at all. It's like blaming the Germans for choosing Hitler. Aren 't you dissatisfied with the government yourself ? Why did you choose him ? The modern world is when people who have to take dementia pills make decisions. I have nothing personal to you.

Nor have I something against you personally, I always try to differentiate between politics and personal relations. But like I am responsible for my views and you have every right to call me out for them, I do the same with you, of course. But we must not start shooting with bullets at each other I think, yes?



If you read me frequently, then you know what I think of the quality of Western leaders, the EU, and especially the German govenment: they make me sick and wanting to vomit. Usually I slam them with full broadsides and volleys and leave not a single good hair on them.
The way sanctions are handled, is an alibi only, and yes, it is the oridnary citizen tklaign the brunt of it. Thats also part of their purpose. To make the people so dissatisfied with their life's needs that they decide to get rid of the leaders bringing these sanction over them with their ruthless acts.
The Europeans hold back fully smacking sanctions still, because we so heavily depend on Russian ores, gas, and to less degree: oil. America'S sancitons also are anyway near to what is possible at max, for iut also has trade interest with Russia.



A clean and clear cut in ties may look desirable, but truth is: nobody really wants it.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Susexx

I would like to believe you, but the reality is that ordinary citizens are already suffering and will continue to suffer.

Quite true, and the soldiers are at the lowest level, dor them it does not matter if they are not fed in Russia or in Ukraine.

"Nothing depends on the elections at all" speak for Russia.

Aren 't you dissatisfied with the government yourself ? Why did youA choose him ? The modern world is when people who have to take dementia pills make decisions. I have nothing personal to you.

I have something really personal for you, !°"§$%&/ sorry this was directed at Putin.

[mapuc]

In Russian tv the viewer is told that Russian army has intervene in Ukraine to remove the nazi-leading government.

Clever use old historical fear as a propaganda weapon

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Quite true, and the soldiers are at the lowest level, dor them it does not matter if they are not fed in Russia or in Ukraine.

"Nothing depends on the elections at all" speak for Russia.

I have something really personal for you, and would like to advise you to pi$$ off, troll.

That was not needed, Catfish, calm down. Lets not turn this thread ugly.

[Susexx]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Quite true, and the soldiers are at the lowest level, dor them it does not matter if they are not fed in Russia or in Ukraine.

"Nothing depends on the elections at all" speak for Russia.

I have something really personal for you, and would like to advise you to pi$$ off, troll.

Don't be rude. In a discussion, this is ugly. If it's nice for you to know that your choice means something, then why are we discussing it now? No other opinions, everyone who thinks differently from me is a troll. Great.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That was not needed, Catfish, calm down. Lets not turn this thread ugly.

More ugly than an unnecessary war with people dying, with the pretext of "nazis" in Ukraine or mass killings in Donbass? LIAR. This is not clever of Putin, indeed it is very dumb because not even russians will believe it. He does not even try to hide anything anymore, no need for maskirovka, he has gone bat sh!t crazy.

Done. Please delete the quote.

[Andreas86]

If Europe has proved one thing in this situation, it is that they couldn't even agree on the size of a meal at McDonalds.

[Andreas86]

Ukraine as of 17:00.

Operational information of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine as of 17:00 on the Russian invasion.


-This was reported by Censor.NET with reference to the press service of the Ministry of Defense .


-"As of 17:00 on February 24, the enemy continues to act aggressively along the entire line of the common border.


-From the airfields of the Republic of Belarus performs demonstration activities along the northern part of the state border.


-In the Sivers'kyi region, the enemy was stopped on the Uzh River in the Velyki Osnyaky and Rivne regions, and a tank battle was being fought.


-Units of the first separate tank brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine stopped columns of enemy armored vehicles near Baturyn and on the outskirts of Chernihiv.


-The enemy attempted to land a tactical landing along the Kiev reservoir.


-20 helicopters KA-52 and Mi-8 of the Russian Federation landed at Gostomel airfield. The battle is on.


-The National Guard of Ukraine entered the battle near the city of Pripyat. The enemy landed a tactical landing in the Bessarabian and Tavriya operational areas.


-After an unsuccessful attempt to land a landing and an unsuccessful missile strike, the enemy missile cruiser "Moscow" began shelling the island of Snake.


-The mixed column of vehicles up to 300 units approached the settlement of Konotop. Mechanized units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine entered the battle. Enemy troops are stopped in the areas of Gremyach and Krolevets.


-In the Donetsk operational area defenders of Ukraine restored position on all line of collision. Fighting is taking place in the direction of Mariupol.


-The forces of the "South" group of troops have organized the defense of Melitopol and are conducting a defense operation on the border of the settlements of Abrikosivka, Rykove, Azov, "the statement reads. Джерело: https://censor.net/ua/n3318834

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

In Russian tv the viewer is told that Russian army has intervene in Ukraine to remove the nazi-leading government.

Clever use old historical fear as a propaganda weapon

Markus

There seems to be some concerns about what’s called the Azov Battalion. Now I don’t know if they follow Hitlers racial ideology and are really Nazis. But it is easier for governments to rally the public and gain their support for war if they believe Nazis are hiding in the shadows, than it is to explain the nature of current global politics.

Especially when their unit badges are quite reminiscent of Nazi SS insignia.

[Skybird]

The Frankfurter Rundschau reports about the EU sanctions of today this:


According to information from the Deutsche Presse-Agentur, the EU states agreed on the main features of the new sanctions package against Russia on Thursday. According to information from EU circles, it is aimed at the energy, finance and transport sectors. There will also be export controls on high-tech products and software, as well as restrictions on visa policy.

Exclusion of Russia from the Swift banking communications network and export bans on natural gas, for example, were not initially envisaged. However, it is considered quite possible in EU circles that there will be an exclusion from Swift at a later date and that Russia itself will stop supplying the EU with natural gas. According to the EU Commission, the Russian state-owned company Gazprom currently supplies around 40 percent of the gas consumed in the EU.

The sanctions against the financial sector are reportedly mainly about cutting off banks from EU financial markets. They are not to be able to borrow or lend money in the EU in the future. In addition, the refinancing of Russian state-owned companies in the EU is to be prevented. Their shares will no longer be traded in the EU. Something similar is planned for the energy sector.
According to Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, the new planned EU sanctions against Russia will stop Russian banks from accessing European financial markets.

The sanctions against the transport sector are about cutting off the Russian aviation industry from supplies of spare parts and other technology. Thus, a relatively small effort could have a huge impact and even shut down entire fleets, Brussels said Thursday. Export controls on high-tech products and software are also expected to make it difficult for other key Russian industries to develop. In the process, the country could be hit hard in the medium and long term, it was said in Brussels.

At the same time, it was stressed that the aim was not to hit Russian citizens. The target of the punitive measures would be those who support Putin's aggressive policies. A political decision on the sanctions package prepared by the EU Commission and the External Action Service is to be taken at a special EU summit this evening. The formal decision would then be taken afterwards.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)




This has some sting in it, but no decisive, breaking sting. I would prefer to see more, although that would hurt us ouselves, too. Its about credibility now. These sanctions are too much compromise. When we do not regain credibility, how can we then hope to ever taken serious in deterrance?

[Susexx]

Originally Posted by mapuc

In Russian tv the viewer is told that Russian army has intervene in Ukraine to remove the nazi-leading government.

Clever use old historical fear as a propaganda weapon

Markus

Unfortunately, it appeared for a reason. Nationalist currents have always been strong in a certain part of Ukraine. Sometimes they expressed their opinions very radically, and sometimes they acted. The state did not react to this in any way. Naturally, propaganda used it.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Azovs are bucaneers, raiders. They can carry out attacks by the Russian government without the Russian govenerment being formally held responsible. Everything else in explanations of them is just part of maskirovska, I think.

I thought they were Ukrainian as Rockstar posted as an answer to my comment about what Russian viewers are being bombarded with.

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

I do not have any hard feelings to any Russian or Ukrainian SUBSIM members here. We can all discuss this if we don't make it personal.

Yeah, this is a sad day for Russians, Ukrainians, Europe and America and Canada. I can understand the Russian mentality and fear of having NATO right on their border. This could have been avoided if the US and NATO partners had listened to Russia's concerns. I don't think that extends to retracting membership away from Poland and the Baltic states but entertaining the idea of Ukraine stepping under the NATO umbrella was obviously too much. So, now the very thing that NATO membership for Ukraine sought to stave off is becoming reality.

The propaganda from Putin and his state run media that Ukraine is brimming with Nazis, that's just to fantastical too believe. Of course, in the US there are millions of crazies who think we are boiling over with racisms, so I can see how the unreal is considered fact.

When I was a young man, I had a philosophy: never get into a fight you cannot win. Just don't.

[Susexx]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The Frankfurter Rundschau reports about the EU sanctions of today this:


[I]According to information from the Deutsche Presse-Agentur, the EU states agreed on the main features of the new sanctions package against Russia on Thursday. According to information from EU circles, it is aimed at the energy, finance and transport sectors. There will also be export controls on high-tech products and software, as well as restrictions on visa policy.

Exclusion of Russia from the Swift banking communications network and export bans on natural gas, for example, were not initially envisaged. However, it is considered quite possible in EU circles that there will be an exclusion from Swift at a later date and that Russia itself will stop supplying the EU with natural gas. According to the EU Commission, the Russian state-owned company Gazprom currently supplies around 40 percent of the gas consumed in the EU.

The sanctions against the financial sector are reportedly mainly about cutting off banks from EU financial markets. They are not to be able to borrow or lend money in the EU in the future. In addition, the refinancing of Russian state-owned companies in the EU is to be prevented. Their shares will no longer be traded in the EU. Something similar is planned for the energy sector.
According to Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, the new planned EU sanctions against Russia will stop Russian banks from accessing European financial markets.

The sanctions against the transport sector are about cutting off the Russian aviation industry from supplies of spare parts and other technology. Thus, a relatively small effort could have a huge impact and even shut down entire fleets, Brussels said Thursday. Export controls on high-tech products and software are also expected to make it difficult for other key Russian industries to develop. In the process, the country could be hit hard in the medium and long term, it was said in Brussels.

Well, that's how we discussed it earlier. They will forbid me to play SH and come to you, but they won't give you gas. And everyone who arranged it will continue to sip Veuve Clicquot and talk about fate.

[Andreas86]

18 IL-76 planes took off from Pskov towards Kyiv, - Bellingcat

20 Russian helicopters landed near Kyiv - a battle is underway



18 IL-76 cargo planes, that's a lot of troops. At this rate Ukraine is conquered by weekend.