Astute vs Virginia - Page 6

micky1up · 09-12-06, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitan

In 1999 British submarines singlehandedly not assigned to task forces fired tomahawk cruise missiles inot kosovo, in 2003 the same happend in iraq.

British submarines are mainly in service to protect the fragile fleet and also to be sent out ahead of the main fleet should war break out and a vessel has to get there within a matter of a few days.
Afterall a nuclear submarine can hit +33 knots all the way to say the falklands and be ahead of the main battle group by a week or two, and thus being in the area to stop further landings and deny enamies that viatl bit of time to get ready.

The british only have the defence side of things worked out, our navy is not large enough to support an attack role even though it can do this i dont think attack is what we realy need from our navy seeing as we get along with 90% of the world.

This is why the British SSN's are built without VLS tubes, they are designed to defend by attacking, however the americans policy of strike first is clearly shown by the fact they have got 4 ohio SSGN's and VLS capible submarines.

America has the navy to attack we dont.

partialy right my friend we go in long before the skimmers get there often weeks ahead to make sure the area are safe ive served 19 years and have never been part of a fleet strike group we operate very independantly whilst not forgetting that we have other missions we are capable of doing

Kapitan · 09-12-06, 05:37 PM

Well i cant get everything right, but at a logical guess these missions could be performed by the British SSN:

Special forces pick up and drop off
Cruise missile attacks
general attacks
survailance
fleet protection
S.A.R
Comunications relaying
Command and control vessel

Sub Sailor · 09-12-06, 06:32 PM

Please don't anyone take this out of context. I love my country dearly, that is why I chose to make the Navy a career. Our current focus on the war on terror is now, next year, hell next month who knows. My Navy like all the Navies of the people on this forum will meet the call of what ever we are asked to do. I am not talking the politics of any of this, I am simply pointing out, ideology aside, Sailors will rise to the call. My God shipmates all of you are well read, the German Navy was not in good standing with the Nazi's but they put up one hell of a fight, many hated Hitler. Yammoto did not agree with going to war with the US, hotheads in the Army wanted assassinate him but when the decision was made he gave it hell.
I believe that if we cooperated and learned from each other--the world in fact--would be safer. We have our differences, Christ we have been absolutely rude to France, but I will go to bed tonight and not worry about Russia, France, Britain attacking us, and I don't believe any of you worry about us attacking you.
Work together, and by all means keep the competition that is what makes us all great. I am one American who is very sad at how we have treated France, I am a historian, in fact I have advanced degrees, I must be one of the few Americans that remember that France helped us in our war of independence. Please don't start a new war over that comment, it is in the past and we are friednds now.
Navies of all of the countries will do whatever is needed to protect and serve their nations. I did not like Viet Nam, I still did my job, I have never agreed with the war in Iraq, but if I was still in I would go and carry out what ever our orders were.
I would be disappointed if each of you did not feel your country, your branch of service, and your command was not the best. I know every ship I served in from 1958-1982 was the best in the world, my Captain was the best, and I was the best Machinist Mate in the Navy. This pride is what makes each of our countries great.
I firmly believe Submariners from any country will take the boat they have and do the job, history has proven that. We are all great, my navy is just a bit greater that all:rotfl:

.

I now relinquish my soap box,

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

Bellman · 09-12-06, 09:14 PM

Hey Pingjockey - Sorry for letting the 'red mist' of nationalistic pride make me over-react - I did'nt catch Neals cool Texas article.

'Aliquando et insanire iucundum est.. ' Seneca. ( It is sometimes pleasant even to act like a madman.)

Sub Sailor a great post !

Onkel Neal · 09-12-06, 10:00 PM

Ping Jockey is the real deal. I had dinner with him tonight.

I don't have any way of knowing which sub/crew is better, but I am confident that the Brits and Americans set the standard.

Onkel Neal · 09-12-06, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micky1up

im currently staffing the perisher course now we are in the third week of tactical simulator phase

im the opso for the course basically the tactical picture supervisor

Sounds like you have some pull, I think we should talk about getting a Subsim journalist in to cover a British submarine, like we recently did on Ping Jockey's boat.....:hmm:

Henson · 09-12-06, 11:16 PM

To set the record straight, there is no such thing as a lone wolf boat singlehandedly planning a TLAM strike. It is not currently possible because of the way the technology is structured.

Those missions are always tasked by a battlegroup of some sort, and without going into too much detail, until the SSGNs come fully online, only surface platforms and shore commands can coordinate strikes and strike planning.

Those brits that shot in support of coalition/NATO missions did so at the direction of CENTCOM through an american CVBG.

LoBlo · 09-13-06, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellman

The poll has no validity - the people motivated to respond can be expected to place votes on a nationalistic basis ! Bulls**t beats brains ?

I like nationalistic debate.... In fact, you should see the next poll I'm planning: "United States or Britain.... who pees farther?"

Bellman · 09-13-06, 12:30 AM

.....or highest ? The hops in our beer or the beer in our hops ?

micky1up · 09-13-06, 09:08 AM

again wrong the tlam mission for the royal navy are planned back in the uk at north wood HQ not by a battle group or any other surface ship they sent the package and the boat gets the tlam to the launch point simple as that

Henson · 09-13-06, 09:09 PM

Where is the tasking from? Who writes the message? Who is the LAC?

Our surface ships don't write missions either. I never said they do. On the other hand, someone has to manage the airspace so missiles and planes aren't flying into each other. CENTCOM (a joint, coalition command) fulfilled that function. Perhaps the LAC was british, but who was FOTC? It's a silly point to argue.

It doesn't matter what nation is coordinating things, the thrust of my message was exactly what I wrote: The idea of a lone-wolf submarine out there launching TLAMs alone is a myth.

As far as working with foreign submariners, I prefer working with the Australians anyway. It must be a PACFLT thing.

Bellman · 09-14-06, 01:47 AM

"United States or Britain.... who pees further?

''......Bring it on LoBlo.............quickly before Euroland excretes its ''preferences'' ! :rotfl:

Bellman · 09-14-06, 03:46 AM

Well I'm going to wind my neck in now for a time 'at sea.'

Acta est fabula. Augustus.
The drama has been acted out.

micky1up · 09-14-06, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henson

Where is the tasking from? Who writes the message? Who is the LAC?

Our surface ships don't write missions either. I never said they do. On the other hand, someone has to manage the airspace so missiles and planes aren't flying into each other. CENTCOM (a joint, coalition command) fulfilled that function. Perhaps the LAC was british, but who was FOTC? It's a silly point to argue.

It doesn't matter what nation is coordinating things, the thrust of my message was exactly what I wrote: The idea of a lone-wolf submarine out there launching TLAMs alone is a myth.

As far as working with foreign submariners, I prefer working with the Australians anyway. It must be a PACFLT thing.

no one said the sub was lone wolf uk subs stay in constant comms with th uk and recieve tasking from HQ direct via communications not via a task group the uk runs its boats like that and have done so for the 19 years ive served

Pingjockey · 09-14-06, 10:16 AM

Bellman: No worries, I kind of egged you on to begin with.

Everyone else, I am sorry for my lack of responses over the last few days. I been swamped with other issues here in my life but with some luck things will work be ok here soon.

Bellman or anyone else on this thread. is there a link somewhere out there that would give a few more tid bits of info on the the astute. I would like to have a chance to read alittle more about it.

To other folks out there that would like to play a little DW we just need to do some cordination and set it up. I am on older laptop right now due to the fact that I am on travel. But I am sure we can make it work some how...

Lastly, thanks for hanging out the other night neal, it was a blast and I hope I shed some light on a few things for ya.

PingJockey

View Poll Results: Which sub is better?
US Virginia Class	51	61.45%
British Astute Class	32	38.55%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

09-12-06, 05:37 PM	#77
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,132 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	Well i cant get everything right, but at a logical guess these missions could be performed by the British SSN: Special forces pick up and drop off Cruise missile attacks general attacks survailance fleet protection S.A.R Comunications relaying Command and control vessel __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

09-12-06, 06:32 PM	#78
Sub Sailor Commander Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Orofino, Idaho Posts: 443 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Please keep in mind. Please don't anyone take this out of context. I love my country dearly, that is why I chose to make the Navy a career. Our current focus on the war on terror is now, next year, hell next month who knows. My Navy like all the Navies of the people on this forum will meet the call of what ever we are asked to do. I am not talking the politics of any of this, I am simply pointing out, ideology aside, Sailors will rise to the call. My God shipmates all of you are well read, the German Navy was not in good standing with the Nazi's but they put up one hell of a fight, many hated Hitler. Yammoto did not agree with going to war with the US, hotheads in the Army wanted assassinate him but when the decision was made he gave it hell. I believe that if we cooperated and learned from each other--the world in fact--would be safer. We have our differences, Christ we have been absolutely rude to France, but I will go to bed tonight and not worry about Russia, France, Britain attacking us, and I don't believe any of you worry about us attacking you. Work together, and by all means keep the competition that is what makes us all great. I am one American who is very sad at how we have treated France, I am a historian, in fact I have advanced degrees, I must be one of the few Americans that remember that France helped us in our war of independence. Please don't start a new war over that comment, it is in the past and we are friednds now. Navies of all of the countries will do whatever is needed to protect and serve their nations. I did not like Viet Nam, I still did my job, I have never agreed with the war in Iraq, but if I was still in I would go and carry out what ever our orders were. I would be disappointed if each of you did not feel your country, your branch of service, and your command was not the best. I know every ship I served in from 1958-1982 was the best in the world, my Captain was the best, and I was the best Machinist Mate in the Navy. This pride is what makes each of our countries great. I firmly believe Submariners from any country will take the boat they have and do the job, history has proven that. We are all great, my navy is just a bit greater that all:rotfl: . I now relinquish my soap box, Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

09-12-06, 09:14 PM	#79
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Hey Pingjockey - Sorry for letting the 'red mist' of nationalistic pride make me over-react - I did'nt catch Neals cool Texas article. 'Aliquando et insanire iucundum est.. ' Seneca. ( It is sometimes pleasant even to act like a madman.) Sub Sailor a great post ! __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity Last edited by Bellman; 09-14-06 at 12:34 AM.

09-12-06, 11:16 PM	#82
Henson Planesman Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 185 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	To set the record straight, there is no such thing as a lone wolf boat singlehandedly planning a TLAM strike. It is not currently possible because of the way the technology is structured. Those missions are always tasked by a battlegroup of some sort, and without going into too much detail, until the SSGNs come fully online, only surface platforms and shore commands can coordinate strikes and strike planning. Those brits that shot in support of coalition/NATO missions did so at the direction of CENTCOM through an american CVBG. Last edited by Henson; 09-12-06 at 11:50 PM.

09-12-06, 10:00 PM	#80
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Ping Jockey is the real deal. I had dinner with him tonight. I don't have any way of knowing which sub/crew is better, but I am confident that the Brits and Americans set the standard.

09-13-06, 12:30 AM	#84
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	.....or highest ? The hops in our beer or the beer in our hops ? __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity Last edited by Bellman; 09-13-06 at 02:06 AM.

09-13-06, 09:08 AM	#85
micky1up Captain Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: helensburgh Posts: 525 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	again wrong the tlam mission for the royal navy are planned back in the uk at north wood HQ not by a battle group or any other surface ship they sent the package and the boat gets the tlam to the launch point simple as that

09-13-06, 09:09 PM	#86
Henson Planesman Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 185 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Where is the tasking from? Who writes the message? Who is the LAC? Our surface ships don't write missions either. I never said they do. On the other hand, someone has to manage the airspace so missiles and planes aren't flying into each other. CENTCOM (a joint, coalition command) fulfilled that function. Perhaps the LAC was british, but who was FOTC? It's a silly point to argue. It doesn't matter what nation is coordinating things, the thrust of my message was exactly what I wrote: The idea of a lone-wolf submarine out there launching TLAMs alone is a myth. As far as working with foreign submariners, I prefer working with the Australians anyway. It must be a PACFLT thing.

09-14-06, 01:47 AM	#87
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	"United States or Britain.... who pees further? ''......Bring it on LoBlo.............quickly before Euroland excretes its ''preferences'' ! :rotfl: __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity Last edited by Bellman; 09-14-06 at 03:10 AM.

09-14-06, 03:46 AM	#88
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Well I'm going to wind my neck in now for a time 'at sea.' Acta est fabula. Augustus. The drama has been acted out. __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

09-14-06, 10:16 AM	#90
Pingjockey Sailor man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Sorento, IL Posts: 48 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Bellman: No worries, I kind of egged you on to begin with. Everyone else, I am sorry for my lack of responses over the last few days. I been swamped with other issues here in my life but with some luck things will work be ok here soon. Bellman or anyone else on this thread. is there a link somewhere out there that would give a few more tid bits of info on the the astute. I would like to have a chance to read alittle more about it. To other folks out there that would like to play a little DW we just need to do some cordination and set it up. I am on older laptop right now due to the fact that I am on travel. But I am sure we can make it work some how... Lastly, thanks for hanging out the other night neal, it was a blast and I hope I shed some light on a few things for ya. PingJockey