Dangerous Waters=Insane? - Page 6

kiwi_2005 · 12-13-05, 07:49 AM

Im always getting the TMA wrong

im missing by yards, unless its a lock on torpedo i'll hit my target. I set up the TMA the first time and its ok, but if i miss and update the TMA, its all crap.

Practice practice.... must get hold of kapitain tommorrow for target practice!

LuftWolf · 12-13-05, 10:32 AM

Well, keep in mind, unlike the TDC, where you have to be spot on with your solution unless you fire a good sized spread, the TMA can be a bit imprecise because you are firing homing or wakehoming torpedoes.

Unless you are trying to thread a shot on a specific target in waters where there are a lot of contacts like neutrals or that you'd rather not shoot, your TMA is to establish an area in which the target is most likely, called a "datum".

In modern naval warfare, you typically fired on datums rather than on what you believe is the exact location of the target, and this alters the way in which you use your weapons, firing on a probability area which to some degree accounts for the target's immediate reactions in avoiding the torpedo or torpedoes, since they are usually picked up on sonar at launch.

For example, with wakehoming torpedoes and a large contact running at moderate speed, you only have to place the torpedo behind the target somewhere that it has been in the last 5-15 minutes or so, and the torpedo will find he wake and ride it to the target. With homing torpedoes, they have a reasonably wide search area, and a seeker range of a mile or more, so you only need to have a general idea of where the contact is and will be.

Of course, "general idea" is a relative term when the ocean is hundreds of thousands of square miles.

In modern submarine warfare there is always a balance between good enough and too late, and TMA is a process that exemplifies this. You will get a good feel for how precise a solution you need for each of your weapons and how to employ them most effectively against targets based on your confidence of where they are and where they are likely to be when the business end of your weapon is looking for them several minutes later.

I applaude you for learning TMA.

_alphaBeta_ · 12-13-05, 10:50 AM

This thread has sparked my interest in this game.

I've found that following the release of this game has been confusing. It has recently been re-released through another vendor, correct? It's essentially the same game with included patches, and doesn't include the wonderful manual I've been hearing about. Is that the current situation?

Also, does DW have a free camera view similar to SH3? I really like giving maneuvering orders, and then watching it happen in free camera. How about control of the ships / subs - is the interface similar to SH3 in that you can do anything you like as far as speed, heading, depth etc.?

I know the graphics are not on the SH3 level, but that doesn't really bother me. I know this is a little OT, but I'm curious to know some information on this game. Like SH3, it's geared for a select audience, and I want to make sure I'm part of that audience. How's replayability? I'm not a huge fan of scripted missions.

LuftWolf · 12-13-05, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _alphaBeta_

This thread has sparked my interest in this game.

I've found that following the release of this game has been confusing. It has recently been re-released through another vendor, correct? It's essentially the same game with included patches, and doesn't include the wonderful manual I've been hearing about. Is that the current situation?

The printed manual that was originally sold with the internet order version will be made available for sale by Strategy First online very shortly. It is well worth it to pick it up, but there are video tutorials included with the game to help you get started right away and many community resources online to answer any other questions you may have. It is a very handy reference, but by no means absolutely necessary to begin learning the game given the wealth of other resources available. So there is no need to wait until the manual is available to buy DW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _alphaBeta_

Also, does DW have a free camera view similar to SH3? I really like giving maneuvering orders, and then watching it happen in free camera. How about control of the ships / subs - is the interface similar to SH3 in that you can do anything you like as far as speed, heading, depth etc.?

There is a 3-d camera view available in Dangerous Waters as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _alphaBeta_

I know the graphics are not on the SH3 level, but that doesn't really bother me. I know this is a little OT, but I'm curious to know some information on this game. Like SH3, it's geared for a select audience, and I want to make sure I'm part of that audience. How's replayability? I'm not a huge fan of scripted missions.

Dangerous Water is a sim aimed at anyone with an interest in quality simulations or naval warfare. The replayability is virtually unlimited because of the incredibly powerful mission editor included with the package and the large number of knowledgable mission designers in the community. The missions themselves can be designed to generate random starting locations and inclusion probabilites for all platforms and objects, meaning that you can play the same mission dozens of times and never see the same setup. This way of designing missions is very popular for scenarios intended for multiplayer.

Which is a WHOLE other reason to buy the game. The multiplayer mode in Dangerous Waters is breathtaking and unrivaled in any other game on the market in any genre. Up to 32 players can control individual submarines, surface vessels, or airplatforms in a single mission and/or multiple players can take command of a single platform and work stations as a team to crew a platform. In a major game we have scheduled for 12/17, we have two FFG's with full crews, a P-3 Orion with full crews, and two Iranian Kilos with full crews, and we are currently looking to expand the mission that we intend to play to accommidate more players as the demand to join this session has been quite high.

Of course, not all multiplayer games are scheduled like this with so many players. I typically try to play one or two sub vs. sub duals every night with people I have meet in the DW community.

You simply cannot go wrong with Dangerous Water for single player or multiplayer action if you have the slightest interest in either quality, immersive simulators or naval warfare.

_alphaBeta_ · 12-13-05, 02:11 PM

Thanks for the detailed description.

For anyone else reading, the manual is now available from Strategy First's website. The price is about $15, so everyone that bought this previously probably didn't have to pay this "surcharge."

Anyway, I guess I'll but from them unless anyone has a better suggestion. The manual isn't showing up in the retail stores yet.

LuftWolf · 12-13-05, 03:03 PM

I was just about to SPAM this thread with that very same information.

Actually, regarding the price of the manual, the original Battlefront version of the game was available in two versions: one without the manual and one with the manual.

The prices were almost exactly what they are now for the game by itself or the game+manual.

So there is no "surcharge" now, just a little help for SCS to cover the cost of printing the manual.

goldorak · 12-13-05, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

I was just about to SPAM this thread with that very same information.

Actually, regarding the price of the manual, the original Battlefront version of the game was available in two versions: one without the manual and one with the manual.

The prices were almost exactly what they are now for the game by itself or the game+manual.

So there is no "surcharge" now, just a little help for SCS to cover the cost of printing the manual.

Lets be precise, the manual was always included on the cd's in pdf format.
The only difference being that it was possibile to buy the printed manual.

Arrrghhhhhhhhh WTH happened to my avatar ?

Fandango · 12-13-05, 05:03 PM

I recommend the game!...

Luft, where do you meet for multiplayer?!?!...I would like to join you, guys!!!

LuftWolf · 12-13-05, 05:47 PM

I just added you to my ICQ.

It seems even with Gamespy and Hyperlobby support, ICQ is easily the best gamefinding program available for DW.

Also, you can check out the Availabilities and Scheduled Events calender at the Commanders Academy and Dive Center, which is what we are using for scheduled events now. Also, feel free to post when you are available for games on the calender and I'm sure you will get a response for a match very quickly.

The calender can be found here: http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/calendar.php

It's a recent addition to the CADC, and one that we hope will be used more and more.

_alphaBeta_ · 12-13-05, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

So there is no "surcharge" now, just a little help for SCS to cover the cost of printing the manual.

Fair enough, I didn't know that.

drEaPer · 12-13-05, 11:19 PM

Just for the record: The free view camera is different from SH3:
DW only shows data you entered into the nav map. Turning on the cheat "Show Truth" makes it possible to see all enemies in 3D view camera though.

Marhkimov · 12-13-05, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drEaPer

Just for the record: The free view camera is different from SH3:
DW only shows data you entered into the nav map. Turning on the cheat "Show Truth" makes it possible to see all enemies in 3D view camera though.

It would have been nice if SH3 worked in the same fashion...

I hate gods eye mode... but in SH3 we have little else to work with. I also hate if nothing shows up on the map... That's why DW's map system seems perfect.

Fandango · 12-14-05, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drEaPer

DW only shows data you entered into the nav map.

Well, don't forget that you can exchange info with the other platforms that are on your side. If on a sub, go to periscope depth and raise your antenna...you will get "LINK" info for free from other platforms on your side showing the position of the ships, subs, helo and planes they are aware of. You don't have to set TRUE ON...just put a surface platform in your area and that's it. But beware, if it gets sunk, your LINK info is gone... :-)

supersloth · 12-14-05, 04:12 AM

anyone know if this game uses ai subs/vessels like a wolfpack? i must say that reading this thread has really sparked my interest in this game, never played a modern subsim before.

goldorak · 12-14-05, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supersloth

anyone know if this game uses ai subs/vessels like a wolfpack? i must say that reading this thread has really sparked my interest in this game, never played a modern subsim before.

Well, in multiplayer you can certainly coordinate various subs (manned by players) to achieve a comon goal.
For example sink a carrier battle group protected by frigate, subs and p-3 (all manned by players).
You can have subs vs subs, subs vs surface ships, airborne units + surface ships vs subs, subs + air units vs surface ships etc, etc, etc....

ps : Dw is not a subsim, its something more general a tactical antisubmarine warfare naval simulation.

12-13-05, 07:49 AM	#76
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	Im always getting the TMA wrong im missing by yards, unless its a lock on torpedo i'll hit my target. I set up the TMA the first time and its ok, but if i miss and update the TMA, its all crap. Practice practice.... must get hold of kapitain tommorrow for target practice! __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.

12-13-05, 10:32 AM	#77
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Well, keep in mind, unlike the TDC, where you have to be spot on with your solution unless you fire a good sized spread, the TMA can be a bit imprecise because you are firing homing or wakehoming torpedoes. Unless you are trying to thread a shot on a specific target in waters where there are a lot of contacts like neutrals or that you'd rather not shoot, your TMA is to establish an area in which the target is most likely, called a "datum". In modern naval warfare, you typically fired on datums rather than on what you believe is the exact location of the target, and this alters the way in which you use your weapons, firing on a probability area which to some degree accounts for the target's immediate reactions in avoiding the torpedo or torpedoes, since they are usually picked up on sonar at launch. For example, with wakehoming torpedoes and a large contact running at moderate speed, you only have to place the torpedo behind the target somewhere that it has been in the last 5-15 minutes or so, and the torpedo will find he wake and ride it to the target. With homing torpedoes, they have a reasonably wide search area, and a seeker range of a mile or more, so you only need to have a general idea of where the contact is and will be. Of course, "general idea" is a relative term when the ocean is hundreds of thousands of square miles. In modern submarine warfare there is always a balance between good enough and too late, and TMA is a process that exemplifies this. You will get a good feel for how precise a solution you need for each of your weapons and how to employ them most effectively against targets based on your confidence of where they are and where they are likely to be when the business end of your weapon is looking for them several minutes later. I applaude you for learning TMA. __________________ LW

12-13-05, 10:50 AM	#78
_alphaBeta_ Medic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NJ, USA Posts: 163 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	This thread has sparked my interest in this game. I've found that following the release of this game has been confusing. It has recently been re-released through another vendor, correct? It's essentially the same game with included patches, and doesn't include the wonderful manual I've been hearing about. Is that the current situation? Also, does DW have a free camera view similar to SH3? I really like giving maneuvering orders, and then watching it happen in free camera. How about control of the ships / subs - is the interface similar to SH3 in that you can do anything you like as far as speed, heading, depth etc.? I know the graphics are not on the SH3 level, but that doesn't really bother me. I know this is a little OT, but I'm curious to know some information on this game. Like SH3, it's geared for a select audience, and I want to make sure I'm part of that audience. How's replayability? I'm not a huge fan of scripted missions. __________________

12-13-05, 02:11 PM	#80
_alphaBeta_ Medic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NJ, USA Posts: 163 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the detailed description. For anyone else reading, the manual is now available from Strategy First's website. The price is about $15, so everyone that bought this previously probably didn't have to pay this "surcharge." Anyway, I guess I'll but from them unless anyone has a better suggestion. The manual isn't showing up in the retail stores yet. __________________

12-13-05, 03:03 PM	#81
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I was just about to SPAM this thread with that very same information. Actually, regarding the price of the manual, the original Battlefront version of the game was available in two versions: one without the manual and one with the manual. The prices were almost exactly what they are now for the game by itself or the game+manual. So there is no "surcharge" now, just a little help for SCS to cover the cost of printing the manual. __________________ LW

12-13-05, 05:03 PM	#83
Fandango Officer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Trieste, Italy Posts: 236 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I recommend the game!... Luft, where do you meet for multiplayer?!?!...I would like to join you, guys!!! __________________ The true worth of a man is to be measured by the objects he pursues. - Marcus Aurelius

12-13-05, 05:47 PM	#84
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I just added you to my ICQ. It seems even with Gamespy and Hyperlobby support, ICQ is easily the best gamefinding program available for DW. Also, you can check out the Availabilities and Scheduled Events calender at the Commanders Academy and Dive Center, which is what we are using for scheduled events now. Also, feel free to post when you are available for games on the calender and I'm sure you will get a response for a match very quickly. The calender can be found here: http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/calendar.php It's a recent addition to the CADC, and one that we hope will be used more and more. __________________ LW

12-13-05, 11:19 PM	#86
drEaPer Navy Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 176 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Just for the record: The free view camera is different from SH3: DW only shows data you entered into the nav map. Turning on the cheat "Show Truth" makes it possible to see all enemies in 3D view camera though.

12-14-05, 04:12 AM	#89
supersloth Seaman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: CA, USA Posts: 41 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	anyone know if this game uses ai subs/vessels like a wolfpack? i must say that reading this thread has really sparked my interest in this game, never played a modern subsim before.