Europe's migrant problem

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Reality is not pretty but we have think of ourselves first. The sign should read NO VACANCY

[Torplexed]

Quite a change from 1979. The US, which had a military presence in Vietnam for decades and also bombed Cambodia and Laos, eventually took in over 1 million Indochinese "boat people" from 1979-97, while another combatant, Australia, took 185,000 and the former colonial master, France, over 100,000. Each seemed to implicitly accept either some responsibility for the postwar mess, or a a desire to help people escape some of the punitive policies of the Hanoi government.

Today, not so much.

[Rockstar]

Immigrants even refugees cannot be allowed to just wander in unregulated. Every country must have control of its borders. If you think repatriation is a bad thing go ahead open the flood gates and let everyone in and see what happens. Things will soon spin out of control and chaos would ensue.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Quite a change from 1979. The US, which had a military presence in Vietnam for decades and also bombed Cambodia and Laos, eventually took in over 1 million Indochinese "boat people" from 1979-97, while another combatant, Australia, took 185,000 and the former colonial master, France, over 100,000. Each seemed to implicitly accept either some responsibility for the postwar mess, or a a desire to help people escape some of the punitive policies of the Hanoi government.

Today, not so much.

...and almost all those people wanted to integrate into our societies as productive members. Today, not so much i think? Maybe a portion even want to tear our societies apart? We've already got enough unproductive "units" as it is. Baa-ram-ewe! Baa-ram-ewe!

[Betonov]

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Oberon

They must be distributed evenly, even outside of Europe if required, Russia could afford to take some, they're supporting Assad in this war, they've got a finger in this pie too, so it's only fair.

Eh?
I think the finger is that of the West who support, armed and funded the Terrorists Rebels who are against Assad.

Whether you like it or not but Assad's Syria is Sovereign who we west tried to destroy just like Iraq and Libya and if succeeded which we nearly did escalated the the problems in the Middle east even further.

Russia is only doing what may lead to a solution to the refugees problem and that's helping a state that's fighting against these terrorists to return peace to the country again.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Russia is only doing what may lead to a solution to the refugees problem and that's helping a state that's fighting against these terrorists to return peace to the country again.

I agree. But I fear Russia will have to invade Turkey first. Erdogan is going to close the Bosphorus to prevent the Russians helping his ISIL allies against the Kurds (satire, but not far from truth)

[ikalugin]

We told west that going into Serbia would not solve problems there, as it is, well, Balkans. And now Kosovo is exporter of drugs and a center for human traficing, which Serbians have left (desecrating orthodox christian religeous sites and one way ethnic cleansing may have had something to do with it).

We told west that going into Afghanistan (especially considering who was sponsoring Alcaida) was a dumb idea. Result - drug exports go through the roof, Taliban stronk.

We told west that getting rid of Saddam would result in a 3 way civil war between Kurds and 2 Muslim groups. We said same about the Assad, and Kaddafi. What do we see? A civil war, refugees.

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Well, I didn't say the west shouldn't take any, did I? Just that, since Russia has involvement in this too, for better or worse, because let's face it, people are fleeing Assad as much as they are fleeing Daesh, then they should take their fair share too.

I think you'll find that Assads Syria was facing distinct problems before the west got involved, heavy drought, internal unrest, crop failure, the CIA couldn't have caused all of them.

Where did I mention the CIA is behind all this? or talked about the source of the problem? I didn't.

I'm perfectly aware that countries like Iraq, Syria, Iran and Lybia etc etc wheren't paradises when it comes to human rights and free speech and do as much with crop failure and heavy drought as the West does when it comes to help Africans from starving but at least people could go on with their daily lives.

I'm merely pointing out that our interfering with affairs that aren't ours haven't improved the situation in the middle east but made it a hell of a lot worse.

Look at Iraq and Libya for example....post removal of guy we West didn't like the countries are a total mess. Syria is also a mess because we're supporting a side which turned to be even worse then Assad who have absolutely no regard for human lives nor have any grain of morality in the things they do or plan to do.

Anyway, I think we're probably done talking about this here, there's just no point really. Just like Europe, no-one is going to agree on anything. I just hope that those who are dead-set against helping refugees never find themselves in a position where they are refugees themselves.

Europe is not to agree on anything, it's the UN's job to do what it stands for. Help the refugees by settling them temporarely across Europe, fight IS and make sure the people can return to their homeland and rebuild.
The answer is simple, the road will be a challenge.

[Rockstar]

Well going to the U.N. isnt really an option thats going to help much. Since Jordan, Turkey, European Union, United States and Russia i.e. the UN, are the ones causing the problems.


I hope I used 'i.e.' correctly.

[ikalugin]

Well you could resettle those people in Germany and offer Germans free land, start up loans and citizenship in some vast, underpopulated country such as Canada, Australia or, he'll, even Russia.
Or you could pay Ukraine to let those people in, but the living conditions there would be poor.

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Not disagreeing, but we're really stuck between a rock and a hard place here, because if we don't do anything we're still going to wind up with thousands of refugees and if we do, then we could wind up making it worse.

Well so far we have just thrown fuel on the fire and made it worse. for grading purpose we haven't really delivered the democracy and liberties that where promised when we removed the 'bad' guy.

Trouble is, as you have said in the past, who listens to the UN? Assad certainly won't, Daesh won't, and someone is bound to veto a motion to resettle these people. I'm not arguing in that it should go to the UN, it should, but I don't hold out much hope of the UN actually achieving much.

Nor do I, as you said I'm very ware of the useless nature of the UN of solving a crisis with a more harsher method then asking politely to stop and asks not shoot at the guys wearing the blue helmets.

When talking doesn't help it's time for a good arsekicking and with Daesh's case to be utterly crushed by that same boot that does the kicking.

Because looking at the bigger picture if it can't stop a war like that of the Balkans and what's going on in the Middle East right now I'm pretty sure it won't be able to stop a war in Western Europe either. So what's the use of the UN apart from being funded for no apparent reason by it's members. It's not use for a institution to excists when it can't do what's it created for.

[Dowly]

This is too rich not to share. Sweden's foreign minister Margot Wallström criticizes Finland's policy about refugees by reminding us of the 70,000 Finnish children Sweden took in during WWII.

Oh boy

[Mr Quatro]

These countries in Europe allowing the Muslim masses to enter their country have not done their homework of what will happen 20 years from
now in 2035.

They will increase due to birth control for the populations that already exist in Europe, including abortions, pills, condoms etc. and the Muslim religion says no to these things.

You would need a computer with the proper numbers inserted to see the end results of the desire for Islam to take over the world.

France has already seen this problem with police chiefs and mayors and voters of the Muslim influence already taking over.

The war in Syria has been going on for a long time ... why the push to leave now? Someone maybe pushing them out to gain future control of those countries.

Seed thought! What about 40 years from now 2055?

[Dan D]

Here is a link to the Refugee video game simulation called "Against all odds" created by the UNHCR ( UN Refugee Agency)

http://www.playagainstallodds.ca/

The game was awarded the Austrian State Prize for Multimedia and e-Business in the Knowledge and Learning category. The jury praised the game for building understanding, empathy and concern for the plight of refugees in the player, says wiki.