9/11 anniversary: Attacks made US stronger, Obama says - Page 6

09-13-11, 05:35 AM

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Of course there is a big difference if you actually approached it in a reasonably intelligent manner beforehand, then decided that you agree with it. But many people dont do that

Its double edged, you have people who do that and will approach issues in an intelligent manner, but they can suddenly and without reason become bleating sheep based on nothing but nationalism or national myths.

If you want at a really telling example you have to look no further than the last republican debate and the sheeplike "patriotic" reaction Ron Paul got over 9/11

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You are so predictive mr objective lol

Accurate though, you will without doubt as soon as your country is in a major topic again adopt your bunker mentality and try and defend everything long after your arguements have fallen apart once more.
A perfect example of looking through the white and blue glasses.

JU_88 · 09-13-11, 05:58 AM

@Tribesman

That is what people do in hard times, be it war/ terror, economical, natural distaster or what ever... they huddle round the leader / look to the higher order, in religious countries they look to god, in capitalist countries we look to our governments to act.
Its perfecty natural in time of crisis (and in 9/11's case, a time of shock.)

Where things can go wrong is when a government DOES act on its peoples initial emotions, by way of a 'knee-jerk' reaction.
People need a little time to calm down and collect themselves. Actions based on emotions are not usually rational or clever ones.
(Such as calling for nuke strikes on afghanistan, or beating up 'middle eastern looking' people.
those hysterical people needed to get a bloody grip!)
In the long run, you certainly dont want political or military decisions to be influenced by these 'lash-out emotions'.

August · 09-13-11, 07:22 AM

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Originally Posted by Crécy

August, please. Don't sink yourself any deeper.

I don't think I'm the one who is overly sensitive on the subject. Debating over this doesn't make me overly sensitive. You act like germans acted during the nazi regime, blindly following the fatherland, refusing to criticize it

Don't compare me to the nazis Crecy. You have no idea what you're talking about.

August · 09-13-11, 07:25 AM

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Originally Posted by JU_88

They just follow popular opinion and are instantly willing to belive anything the government or media tells them at face value - which is increadibly trusting when you consider the frequencey they have been proven to lie and spin.

I have never in my long life met someone like that. I have however met plenty of folks who just assumed the person they were talking to did, but it's always because that person holds a viewpoint they don't share.

Dowly · 09-13-11, 07:33 AM

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Originally Posted by August

Don't compare me to the nazis Crecy. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Just out of curiosity, do you?

Hottentot · 09-13-11, 07:37 AM

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Originally Posted by Dowly

Just out of curiosity, do you?

Why wouldn't he? I think August is referring to his often repeated slogan of hating the nazis.

Dowly · 09-13-11, 07:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Hottentot

Why wouldn't he? I think August is referring to his often repeated slogan of hating the nazis.

Yes, I've seen him state that quite often.

Crécy · 09-13-11, 09:09 AM

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Originally Posted by August

Don't compare me to the nazis Crecy. You have no idea what you're talking about.

First of all, I certainly did not compare you to nazis, I compared you to german people of that time. Or do you think all germans were nazis?

JU_88 · 09-13-11, 10:20 AM

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Originally Posted by Crécy

First of all, I certainly did not compare you to nazis, I compared you to german people of that time. Or do you think all germans were nazis?

Yeah Its about a similar mentality, Post Nazi germany was screwed economically by sanctions and depression, the quality of life was beyond miserable, people rallied around hitler because he gave them hope, a scapegoat and the promise of revenge.
Likewise in the aftermath of 9/11, Americans rallied behind Bush for similar reasons. Ditto for us Brits after 7/7.
Typical human behavior, it can happen in any country thats going though a bad time, nazism has nothing to do with it.
It can be potentially dangerous, because people are at their most prone to being manipulated when they are afraid.
Just as Goering pointed out 70 odd years ago.

***8220;Of course the people do not want war. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it is a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism Herman Goering, Nazi Leader-Nuremberg Trial.

MH · 09-13-11, 10:25 AM

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Originally Posted by JU_88

@Tribesman

That is what people do in hard times, be it war/ terror, economical, natural distaster or what ever... they huddle round the leader / look to the higher order, in religious countries they look to god, in capitalist countries we look to our governments to act.
Its perfecty natural in time of crisis (and in 9/11's case, a time of shock.)

Where things can go wrong is when a government DOES act on its peoples initial emotions, by way of a 'knee-jerk' reaction.
People need a little time to calm down and collect themselves. Actions based on emotions are not usually rational or clever ones.
(Such as calling for nuke strikes on afghanistan, or beating up 'middle eastern looking' people.
those hysterical people needed to get a bloody grip!)
In the long run, you certainly dont want political or military decisions to be influenced by these 'lash-out emotions'.

We probably would disagree on many occasions about what in YOUR opinion is "jerk off" decision.
Its all matter of perspective available data or viewpoint you had been represented.

MH · 09-13-11, 10:31 AM

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Originally Posted by Crécy

First of all, I certainly did not compare you to nazis, I compared you to german people of that time. Or do you think all germans were nazis?

Lets compare everything to nazis.
Nazis wore hats-don't wear hats.

On this forum you will find some people who can be compared to nazis-try to spot the difference.

August · 09-13-11, 11:37 AM

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Originally Posted by Dowly

Just out of curiosity, do you?

Go back to your girly pictures Dowly. Adults are talking here...

Dowly · 09-13-11, 11:42 AM

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Originally Posted by August

Go back to your girly pictures Dowly. Adults are talking here...

Eh.. what did I do to deserve that for?

August · 09-13-11, 11:43 AM

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Originally Posted by JU_88

Yeah Its about a similar mentality, Post Nazi germany was screwed economically by sanctions and depression, the quality of life was beyond miserable, people rallied around hitler because he gave them hope, a scapegoat and the promise of revenge.
Likewise in the aftermath of 9/11, Americans rallied behind Bush for similar reasons. Ditto for us Brits after 7/7.

You're not seriously trying to compare post 7-7 and 9-11 western life with the horrible economic conditions in post WW1 Germany are you?!

That's like comparing the light breeze blowing outside my window right now with Hurricane Andrew. Such comparisons are just not valid.

JU_88 · 09-13-11, 11:45 AM

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Originally Posted by August

You're not seriously trying to compare post 7-7 and 9-11 western life with the horrible economic conditions in post WW1 Germany are you?!

That's like comparing the light breeze blowing outside my window right now with Hurricane Andrew. Such comparisons are just not valid.

Er ...No Im not, re-read my posts.

09-13-11, 05:58 AM	#77
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,813 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	@Tribesman That is what people do in hard times, be it war/ terror, economical, natural distaster or what ever... they huddle round the leader / look to the higher order, in religious countries they look to god, in capitalist countries we look to our governments to act. Its perfecty natural in time of crisis (and in 9/11's case, a time of shock.) Where things can go wrong is when a government DOES act on its peoples initial emotions, by way of a 'knee-jerk' reaction. People need a little time to calm down and collect themselves. Actions based on emotions are not usually rational or clever ones. (Such as calling for nuke strikes on afghanistan, or beating up 'middle eastern looking' people. those hysterical people needed to get a bloody grip!) In the long run, you certainly dont want political or military decisions to be influenced by these 'lash-out emotions'. Last edited by JU_88; 09-13-11 at 07:10 AM.