Gaza militants fire dozens of mortars into Israel

[Skybird]

You can get EVERYTHING in Gaza. From caviar to hightech and consumer electronics. You just need to have the money. But available it all is, legally. Not even mentioning the smuggler's items, and black market.

Europeans are very easy to go into am ok mode when Palestinians get killed - while expecting that when Israelis/Jewish blood bgets shed by an assassin, Israel should just sit still and do nothing. After all those many centuries, to Europe the blood of Jews still is so much cheaper than that of others - especially that of Islamic bodies. Those voices claiming that antisemitism ranks high in the EU, are absolutely right in my opinion.

The Palestinians have had so many opportunity to get a deal, and their own territories. Their capability to ruin them all and let them all pass by, is legendary.

Anmd those arguing in thos forum that it is injust that Israel exists since 1947, ignore just one thing, and again it is an injustice thex accept so easily becasue once again it is at the cost of Jews: since 1947, two generations have been born and raised in I(srael, and to some parts also died again - for Israel. Destroying the state of Israel now, more than 6 decades after it was founded, is only possible at the cost of committing anjothe rgreat injuzstice once again, that is at least equal to that of 1947. Those being born after Israel was founded, are totallyx innocent rehgarding the fact that it exists. But I never have heared anybody who is saying that Israel is an injust circumstance and must seize to exist, considering this implication. After all, it would be at the costs of some worthless Jews again.

That kind of worthless Jews that needed just a couple of years to turn a dry, desolate desert into a somewhat blossoming garden and agricultural hotspot - where generations of Palestinians before for centuries proved to be unable to rewact in any different way to the environment than with fatalism, inaction and passivity. Judging it by their deeds, cleverness and poetntial, the Jews deserve the place much more than the Palestinians. Wiothout the Israelis being there, the mean income per head would be lower amongst Palestinians! That is a statistical fact. They also would be much worse off in food production, sweet water production and participation in the benefits of hightech assessoires and access tmodern health care.

So certain people in here: stop telling us how just it is when you demand nothing else but another Endlösung to the Jewish question - by demanding Israel to stop to exist, or getting taken over by Palestinians. More than 20% of the people of Israel already are Palestinians, which we learn from the current Arab unrest already may be a danegrously high share in case of national conflict and crisis. If somebody think there can be a Jewish state called Israel anymore with an unregulatede right of Palestinians to move into it, then you are totally disconnected from reality.

Use ur imagination a bit.
1 or more Cell phone per person its a must even in Gaza.

So in your imagination the IDF decided to collect all the cell phone records and match the numbers to addresses and then ring them up
In your imagination were the IDF able to sort all the records so that they didn't ring any cell phone of a terrorist or possible terrorist or someone who might know a terrorist or be standing next to a terrorist and having to shout really loud due to bad reception and an F-15 flying overhead and make sure they didn't ring them by mistake.

You really are crawling down the rabbit hole with that attempt to stand by what you wrote.

Nice to see Skybird popping by though, he managed quite a good rant there without spewing his usual lines from uncle adolfs era, but he still couldn't help tilting at windmills.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

So in your imagination the IDF decided to collect all the cell phone records and match the numbers to addresses and then ring them up
In your imagination were the IDF able to sort all the records so that they didn't ring any cell phone of a terrorist or possible terrorist or someone who might know a terrorist or be standing next to a terrorist and having to shout really loud due to bad reception and an F-15 flying overhead and make sure they didn't ring them by mistake.

.

Ridiculous isnt it?
You hit a wall with that.

Collecting phone numbers?
IDF looked them all up in yellow pages.

Collecting phone numbers?
IDF looked them all up in yellow pages.

Thats why they failed, the Golden pages is commercial not domestic and the domestic wouldn't have ads including cells as well as land line
You really ought to get onto military intelligence and explain their mistake

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Thats why they failed, the Golden pages is commercial not domestic and the domestic wouldn't have ads including cells as well as land line
You really ought to get onto military intelligence and explain their mistake

[Gerald]

An Israeli air strike has killed two militants in the northern Gaza Strip, Israeli and Palestinian officials say.

The Israeli military said its strike targeted militants attempting to fire rockets into Israel.

Palestinians said that both victims were members of the Islamic Jihad group. Another militant was injured.

The air strike comes a day after militant groups in Hamas-run Gaza said they would halt rocket attacks on Israel if the Israelis reciprocated.

In a separate development, Israel says its new anti-rocket defence system is due to become operational later on Sunday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12873532

Note: Update Record, 27 March 2011 Last updated at 09:11 GMT

[Gerald]

Last night, rejecting criticism of his actions in Libya, President Obama outlined a standard for civilized multilateralism: “Sometimes, the course of history poses challenges that threaten our common humanity and common security,” he said. “Real leadership creates the conditions and coalitions for others to step up as well; to work with allies and partners ... to see that the principles of justice and human dignity are upheld by all.” If you should act, act where you can, and act together.

Obama gained a mandate from the U.N. Security Council, working with the European Union to rally the Arab League. He enlisted support from leaders of the Group of 20 in the process. His leadership, in short, did not just turn the tide against one Arab tyranny, but produced a model of statecraft for the region as a whole.

This model now has an even more important task. Obama should, and can, lead the Quartet (the U.S., U.N., E.U. and Russia) in presenting a new blueprint for Israeli-Palestinian peace. Whatever happens in Libya, America will never be seen as a champion of Arab democracy if it continues to appear cavalier about the occupation of the Palestinians.

The president made clear in his Cairo speech that Palestinian statehood is not simply an internal Israeli affair, nor is Israeli security the responsibility of the Israeli military alone. He knows that the chances of success in any bilateral talks between Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas are nil. He also knows what the product of good-faith negotiations must be.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/30/op...tml?ref=israel

Note: Update Record, 29 March 2011

[Gerald]

The Palestinian Islamist group, Hamas, has warned Israel of "consequences" after an air strike in Gaza killed three members of its military wing.

The Izz al-Din Qassam Brigades militants were killed near the southern town of Khan Younis, a statement said.

Medics and witnesses said the men had been travelling in a car at the time, and that one person was also injured.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said it was a pre-emptive strike against militants planning to kidnap Israelis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12944805

Note: Update Record,2 April 2011 Last updated at 03:29 GMT

[MH]

UN finely trys to spin itself out of the bul**** report....
Very intresting.

Goldstone: Claims of Israel's Gaza war crimes should be reconsidered

Writing in a Washington Post column, former head of the Gaza war fact-finding commission slams anti-Israel UN bias, says Jerusalem went to 'significant' lengths to investigate itself.

By Haaretz Service Tags: Israel news Gaza war Hamas





Former jurist Richard Goldstone said that if Israel had cooperated with his United Nations fact-finding commission into the events of Operation Cast Lead, the charges mounted against Israel in the Goldstone Report, including those of alleged war crimes and the intentional targeting of civilians, would have changed.
Writing in a Washington Post column published on Friday, Goldstone noted Israeli efforts to investigate wrongdoings by soldiers and commanders during the Gaza war, saying that war crime allegations against Israel would have been influenced by the evidence provided by such probes.
Richard Goldstone during a session of the Human Rights Council in Geneva, Switzerland, Sept. 29, 2009.
Photo by: AP
"We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding mission appointed by the UN Human Rights Council that produced what has come to be known as the Goldstone Report," Goldstone wrote, adding: "If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document."
The former South African jurist said that while "Israeli evidence that has emerged since publication of our report doesn’t negate the tragic loss of civilian life, I regret that our fact-finding mission did not have such evidence explaining the circumstances in which we said civilians in Gaza were targeted, because it probably would have influenced our findings about intentionality and war crimes."
While Israel has shown to probe itself "to a significant degree" over Gaza war actions, Goldstone wrote, Hamas, who has been in control of the coastal enclave since 2007, "has done nothing."
The former jurist also criticizes the UN Human Rights Council's anti-Israel bias, saying that he had hoped that the report could "begin a new era of evenhandedness at the UN Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be doubted."
"Something that has not been recognized often enough is the fact that our report marked the first time illegal acts of terrorism from Hamas were being investigated and condemned by the United Nations," Goldstone added, saying that his report "found evidence of potential war crimes and 'possibly crimes against humanity' by both Israel and Hamas. That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying — its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets."
"That comparatively few Israelis have been killed by the unlawful rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza in no way minimizes the criminality. The UN Human Rights Council should condemn these heinous acts in the strongest terms," Goldstone said.
Goldstone also urged the UN's rights body to condemn a recent stabbing attack at the West Bank settlement of Itamar, saying that "the Human Rights Council should condemn the inexcusable and cold-blooded recent slaughter of a young Israeli couple and three of their small children in their beds."
"Simply put, the laws of armed conflict apply no less to non-state actors such as Hamas than they do to national armies," Goldstone concluded in his Washington Post column, saying that "ensuring that non-state actors respect these principles, and are investigated when they fail to do so, is one of the most significant challenges facing the law of armed conflict."
"Only if all parties to armed conflicts are held to these standards will we be able to protect civilians who, through no choice of their own, are caught up in war," he added

UN finely trys to spin itself out of the bul**** report....

Really?

if Israel had cooperated with his United Nations fact-finding commission into the events of Operation Cast Lead, the charges mounted against Israel in the Goldstone Report, including those of alleged war crimes and the intentional targeting of civilians, would have changed.

no spin there, failure to cooperate and failure to provide evidencve diminishes your input and leaves out your chance to have a voice in a report.
It really is so simple.
If you don't partake in a process you look very silly complaining that your view was not represented.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

no spin there, failure to cooperate and failure to provide evidencve diminishes your input and leaves out your chance to have a voice in a report.
It really is so simple.
If you don't partake in a process you look very silly complaining that your view was not represented.

Well it doesn't sound like the smartest idea, but you have to consider the following:
- a mistrust against the UN, I think MH's opinion about it is representative for the Israeli citizens
- military reasons to keep certain informations classified
- like any military of the world, the IDF has their amount of bureaucracy. It took the Tzahal several weeks to give away all the infos after the Ship to Gaza incident, and this was a small event in comparision to the Operation Cast Lead.

I wonder how many people, who took the report as a proof of war crimes, will now revise their opinions. My bet is that the numbers will be small.
This conflict seems to attract more ideological people than people who want to see it rational.

[Bilge_Rat]

At least he admits what every one else knew, the UN investigation was just a politically motivated hatchet job:

The purpose of the Goldstone Report was never to prove a foregone conclusion against Israel. I insisted on changing the original mandate adopted by the Human Rights Council, which was skewed against Israel. I have always been clear that Israel, like any other sovereign nation, has the right and obligation to defend itself and its citizens against attacks from abroad and within. Something that has not been recognized often enough is the fact that our report marked the first time illegal acts of terrorism from Hamas were being investigated and condemned by the United Nations. I had hoped that our inquiry into all aspects of the Gaza conflict would begin a new era of evenhandedness at the U.N. Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be doubted.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...1JC_story.html

[Gerald]

Israel says it is willing to observe a ceasefire after days of military exchanges in Gaza, if Palestinian militants there end rocket attacks.

Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak said on Sunday: "If they stop firing on our communities, we will stop firing."

A spokesman for Hamas, which governs Gaza, said militants had no interest in escalation and calm could be restored.

At least 18 people have died in Israeli air strikes, which it says have been in response to militant rocket fire.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13027915

Note: 10 April 2011 Last updated at 08:27 GMT

[Jimbuna]

Can't see a truce lasting long if past events are anything to go by.

[Gerald]

Peace is not something that fits these players, and I see no one like that in sight .. very long time, the whole region is a powder keg