SHV may be a flop because no one cares anymore

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

If the Publisher has moved away from a sim to an arcade game, why would they bother giving Neal a Preview copy?

That is precisely one of my primary concerns

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I just hope the game is worth all the carping about DRM. This could be a case of don't worry about the DRM, the game isn't very good anyway.

....and another

[scrapser]

To the OP, you should have been around when Hasbro released "Gunship". That was the biggest flop of a simulation ever published and it got so bad the company quit the military simulation titles completely and quietly shelved and later sold their ownership of the "MicroProse" brand.

I think the economic situation has made it nearly impossible for anyone to produce fully detailed simulations as they did back in the mid to late 90's. It has been steadily declining ever since.

A new business model is sorely needed for sims to be produced like the passionate simmers would like them to be.

Personally I think it needs to be more like buying custom made merchandise where you pay for the fact that it's a niche market. All we need is a company that's willing to try and put out some feelers to see what sort of market response they can expect.

In the meantime, I have my sights set on "Carrier Command" from Bohemia Interactive. If they deliver anything close to the original it will be one awesome game (even if it is a sci-fi title).

[Steeltrap]

Originally Posted by scrapser

In the meantime, I have my sights set on "Carrier Command" from Bohemia Interactive. If they deliver anything close to the original it will be one awesome game (even if it is a sci-fi title).

You mean the one from around 1990 that I had on my Amiga 2000??

Wow. Brilliant little game, miles ahead of its time.

[tater]

Neal is right WRT modding and SALES. I bought SH4 not knowing squat about modding (how to do it, or frankly if it was needed). It took about zero time from me to realize SH4 NEEDED to be modded to be even remotely realistic (all it took was seeing a bunch of Akizuki DDs in 1941 to know someone without even part of a clue made the campaign).

[Steeltrap]

I remember seeing a chart of HMS Hood's trial performance. It took her around 25 minutes to get to top speed from a standing start (going from memory, but it was a LONG time).

Compare that with the 'performance' of vessels in SH3 and 4.....

As I said before, the modders are the ones who make the games approximate a 'realistic' sim. The developers provide a rough shell.

[tater]

Acceleration of ships is not controllable to the extent desired unless they made a fundamental change in SH5. It can be made more realistic, but nothing like it should be, sadly.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Silent Hunter 5 looks like being an arcade game targeted at the casual gamer and only available via the internet.

I can't think of a worse combination than that.

It sure looks that way.

[karamazovnew]

Originally Posted by scrapser

To the OP, you should have been around when Hasbro released "Gunship". That was the biggest flop of a simulation ever published and it got so bad the company quit the military simulation titles completely and quietly shelved and later sold their ownership of the "MicroProse" brand.

I think the economic situation has made it nearly impossible for anyone to produce fully detailed simulations as they did back in the mid to late 90's. It has been steadily declining ever since.

A new business model is sorely needed for sims to be produced like the passionate simmers would like them to be.

Personally I think it needs to be more like buying custom made merchandise where you pay for the fact that it's a niche market. All we need is a company that's willing to try and put out some feelers to see what sort of market response they can expect.

In the meantime, I have my sights set on "Carrier Command" from Bohemia Interactive. If they deliver anything close to the original it will be one awesome game (even if it is a sci-fi title).

Great post. And btw, thanks, I had no idea about Carrier Command.

Originally Posted by tater

Acceleration of ships is not controllable to the extent desired unless they made a fundamental change in SH5. It can be made more realistic, but nothing like it should be, sadly.

Somewhere in the code, there must be a formula on which the speed is dynamically calculated. Ubi could very well make ample config files for each difficulty setting. I see no reason for the game to be arcade for those who want it so, but realistic for the others. Let's say we have 2 ships, Nelson and a Torpedo Boat... A perfect sim should have something like this:
Speed+= Power - Friction
Speed+= p*e^(-a*T) - h*e^(b*S)
where T is the time, S is the speed, p is power, h is hull friction and a and b are logarithmic factors. In this way, with just 4 parameters for each ship, you can realistically mimic any ship behavior you want. You can make them go as fast as you need, and accelerate as fast as you want. Plus, when turning, all you need to do is apply a new formula for the hull friction
h=a + e^(b*r), where a is the "go ahead" normal friction, b is an amplitude and r is the angle of the rudder. Throw in some wind and wave effect and with 2-3 formulas and a few parameters you can mod any ship...

[THE_MASK]

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

Great post. And btw, thanks, I had no idea about Carrier Command.



Somewhere in the code, there must be a formula on which the speed is dynamically calculated. Ubi could very well make ample config files for each difficulty setting. I see no reason for the game to be arcade for those who want it so, but realistic for the others. Let's say we have 2 ships, Nelson and a Torpedo Boat... A perfect sim should have something like this:
Speed+= Power - Friction
Speed+= p*e^(-a*T) - h*e^(b*S)
where T is the time, S is the speed, p is power, h is hull friction and a and b are logarithmic factors. In this way, with just 4 parameters for each ship, you can realistically mimic any ship behavior you want. You can make them go as fast as you need, and accelerate as fast as you want. Plus, when turning, all you need to do is apply a new formula for the hull friction
h=a + e^(b*r), where a is the "go ahead" normal friction, b is an amplitude and r is the angle of the rudder. Throw in some wind and wave effect and with 2-3 formulas and a few parameters you can mod any ship...

I think the devs said the drag is improved so wouldnt this be a great improvement

[rascal101]

Yes roll on Carrier Command - though I must ask who's producing it, will it have the DRM or equivelent and.............. oh why do I bother.....

Soon you will all be mindless zombies watching endless cooking, home decor, dancing shows on TV - why struggle, dont fight it - forget computer games - eat, dance, renovate and die!

R

Originally Posted by scrapser

To the OP, you should have been around when Hasbro released "Gunship". That was the biggest flop of a simulation ever published and it got so bad the company quit the military simulation titles completely and quietly shelved and later sold their ownership of the "MicroProse" brand.

I think the economic situation has made it nearly impossible for anyone to produce fully detailed simulations as they did back in the mid to late 90's. It has been steadily declining ever since.

A new business model is sorely needed for sims to be produced like the passionate simmers would like them to be.

Personally I think it needs to be more like buying custom made merchandise where you pay for the fact that it's a niche market. All we need is a company that's willing to try and put out some feelers to see what sort of market response they can expect.

In the meantime, I have my sights set on "Carrier Command" from Bohemia Interactive. If they deliver anything close to the original it will be one awesome game (even if it is a sci-fi title).

[karamazovnew]

Originally Posted by sober

I think the devs said the drag is improved so wouldnt this be a great improvement

My boss used to say: "If you don't log it, it doesn't exists". I say "If you can't mod it, it doesn't matter"

[tonschk]

I play just the SILENT HUNTER 3/4 in my computer , all the other games are silly and boring , therefore without a doubt the next Month I will buy the SILENT HUNTER 5

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

Great post. And btw, thanks, I had no idea about Carrier Command.



Somewhere in the code, there must be a formula on which the speed is dynamically calculated. Ubi could very well make ample config files for each difficulty setting. I see no reason for the game to be arcade for those who want it so, but realistic for the others. Let's say we have 2 ships, Nelson and a Torpedo Boat... A perfect sim should have something like this:
Speed+= Power - Friction
Speed+= p*e^(-a*T) - h*e^(b*S)
where T is the time, S is the speed, p is power, h is hull friction and a and b are logarithmic factors. In this way, with just 4 parameters for each ship, you can realistically mimic any ship behavior you want. You can make them go as fast as you need, and accelerate as fast as you want. Plus, when turning, all you need to do is apply a new formula for the hull friction
h=a + e^(b*r), where a is the "go ahead" normal friction, b is an amplitude and r is the angle of the rudder. Throw in some wind and wave effect and with 2-3 formulas and a few parameters you can mod any ship...

This is a very important aspect and I really hope it can be modded.

[Castout]

I was a bit carried away with then the hype of SHV but after seeing some discussion here and looking at the game interface through the video I've concluded that it will be a far arcade game than even SHIV. For this reason I adopt a wait and see stance and instead looking forward to my board game preorders and Mass Effect 2 and Napoleon Total War instead. [Genuine] Games come here a little late than in other countries.

So far I'm not impressed by SHV. And not going to buy a game on title that would in the end upset me for not reaching my simulation expectation.
I can live with ETW like protection but this DRM which obliges the players to stay connected when playing is stupid imo.

And I just want to say that it's not piracy that's making game publishers to lose money but a badly designed game that doesn't cater to what the actual fans and would be players had expected. Stop blaming piracy for sales drop and instead focusing on publishing what the gamers want and that means not taking shortcuts.

[martes86]

I still have hopes for the background operations of the boat being realistic. I think that the GUI is probably contributing (a lot) to the idea of the game being awfully arcadish. The thing with the GUI is that the Devs wanted it clean, and minimalistic due to the new camera style, but due to the minimalistic part, they probably had to compromise a little in the design (meaning, no dials like in SH3) so that it was viable and user-friendly (letters/numbers in the right size, easily readable, and all that). And the "crew abilities points" thing probably contributes a lot too. But these will probably be easily moddable, so we might still get lucky after all.

Cheers