RA and Alfa tau - A case for freespeach - Page 6

OneShot · 11-28-08, 09:09 AM

I'm loose (or on the loose

) ... and daydreams are ok, but some comments read like being made while on drugs (or maybe after some serious meditation) ... anyway, such stuff regularly brings out the sarcastic side in me. I just can't help it.

Besides, while I don't hold my breath in regard to SCS changing its stance on community made new playables I surely would appreciate it, if it actually happens.

Aside from that, while some people might believe that their anger (and thus their comments in regard to SCS) is "righteous" I for myself question that attitude (I dont remember seing the explicit right to mod DW or the definite promise of new playables on the game box - on the contrary, SCS made their stance clear before the release) ... after all its not advisable to bite the hand that feeds you or in this case to piss of the people you are asking to give up some of their money making options.

I'm not advocating to be an ass kisser but it should be common sense that if you are asking for something (which we do through Neal) you better behave unless you are in a superior position (which we are clearly not). I think thats called being diplomatic.

Think about it ...

Hitman · 11-28-08, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Of course, the usually so open US Navy will be more than happy to have one of its contractors put highly classified and protected data into a freely commercial available product ... most excellent. Now if the other navies of the world could be as forthcomming, then all this guessing about the question "Are Akula's really up to par with a 688(i)" (for example) would finally be over. And thats only the tip of the iceberg ... you could test for "real" what a Mk48 ADCAP does to a Kilo compared to a Typhoon ... the possibilities are endless. If only those pesky people from the military and intelligence communities could be more open about their secrets - we, the honorable simmers, who have every right to have the most accurate information possible could finally rest, assured that our game does represent the reality.

Oh come on, be positive....in 70 years we will have FULL access to all that information

Don't we already have all the secret documents about the WW2 Fleet boats?

No, joking aside....I understand that many people want the "real" thing, but what if the real thing would be dissapointing? I'm having weekly a lot of fun with some friends using my Kilo or my Akula against a 688i, a Perry, an MH60 and we are already leaving the Seawolf out and downgrading a bit sonobuoys to have a more balanced and playable sim....after all this is just a game and we intend to have a balanced fun. Where would that go if the US side were able to simply crush the enemy without effort? (If that's the "real" thing we don't know). And, if the "real" thing is more balanced...well we have that already, don't we?

Either way we seem to have the best possible solution, so I say:

Realism? Yes, much wellcomed....but not as much as to kill fun, thanks.

Raptor_341 · 11-28-08, 04:53 PM

Realism should ALWAYS be the highest goal of any sim. Its why i own SB, ArmA, IL-2, each running the best realism mods and things out, oh, and GWX

. Thats why without mods such as LWAMI or now RA that i just wouldnt even use DW, which is why i have endless support for them, whatever the cost. If you build to the highest level of realism, you can always set it down for people who like it that way. But the enemy of all simulations is balance, make it like it is, or as close to as it is, or not at all.

goldorak · 11-28-08, 05:10 PM

The problem is : if you make it too realistic then it isn't going to sell a lot.
SCS should have decided upfront who were its potential customers for Dangerous Waters. The mass market or the niche market.
Of course that choice would have reflected itself on the price of the sim.
People spend what 100$/€ for a version of SBP, would such a price be viable for a naval sim ?
What happens when you spend 100 €/$ for a sim and find out that they won't allow modding. You're going to be 100x more pissed off. :rotfl:

MR. Wood · 11-29-08, 12:47 AM

are we ever going to hear back from them????

Hawk66 · 11-29-08, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneShot

I'm not advocating to be an ass kisser but it should be common sense that if you are asking for something (which we do through Neal) you better behave unless you are in a superior position (which we are clearly not). I think thats called being diplomatic.

Think about it ...

I agree.

The point for me is not that I/we have the 'right' that Sonalysts continues their commercial product line.
It's just a matter of communication (or the lack of it). They don't even seem post to their own forum after having a quick look at it.

Hence, I've made the proposal that a small online meeting (via IRC or whatever) would sync both 'sides'. Or just writing an info post and clarify the stuff which is discussed here again and again.

If they don't intend to get back into the commercial market in the foreseeable future and they can't/want help by allowing more modding or providing SDK to improve the NSE than just communicate that clearly.

BTW: Don't know if I'm alone with this opinion, but I think the main issue with this sim is not the lack of platforms but more the NSE and -especially- its AI/mission handling - at least if you don't play multiplayer.
I've invested much time this sommer trying to improve it via the doctrines but unfortunately the behaviour (dependent on the platform type) is so intransparant and buggy that it is just not possble to achieve a satisfying solution IMHO. It was frustrating to be honest

OneShot · 11-29-08, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk66

I agree.

The point for me is not that I/we have the 'right' that Sonalysts continues their commercial product line. It's just a matter of communication (or the lack of it). They don't even seem post to their own forum after having a quick look at it.

Hence, I've made the proposal that a small online meeting (via IRC or whatever) would sync both 'sides'. Or just writing an info post and clarify the stuff which is discussed here again and again.

If they don't intend to get back into the commercial market in the foreseeable future and they can't/want help by allowing more modding or providing SDK to improve the NSE than just communicate that clearly.

BTW: Don't know if I'm alone with this opinion, but I think the main issue with this sim is not the lack of platforms but more the NSE and -especially- its AI/mission handling - at least if you don't play multiplayer. I've invested much time this sommer trying to improve it via the doctrines but unfortunately the behaviour (dependent on the platform type) is so intransparant and buggy that it is just not possble to achieve a satisfying solution IMHO. It was frustrating to be honest

There are some valid points in here ... first of, I'm right up with you on the communication issue or actually the lack of it and an online chat would be a nice thing, however feasible only with a small number of people otherwise it prolly would end up in a way nobody wants. A better alternative would be an actual clear and unequivocal statement.

As far as the NSE goes I think we will run into a brick wall ... one of the reasons being the lack of development for "our" version compared to the "goverment" version and the most likely resulting problem of transfering the achieved fixes. And face it, obviously DW didnt make enough revenue to justify continued development which is why we are without a new patch for so long. So I highly doubt we will get a fixed NSE (which I would prefer over new platforms) and since the NSE is integral to their government product I don't think we will get a SDK to work on the NSE ourselves.

I dont wanna squash any hopes its just my point of view on this situation.

Bottom line, I do hope we hear from SCS soon ... one way or another.

Bill Nichols · 11-29-08, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Quote:

Of course, the usually so open US Navy will be more than happy to have one of its contractors put highly classified and protected data into a freely commercial available product ... most excellent. Now if the other navies of the world could be as forthcomming, then all this guessing about the question "Are Akula's really up to par with a 688(i)" (for example) would finally be over. And thats only the tip of the iceberg ... you could test for "real" what a Mk48 ADCAP does to a Kilo compared to a Typhoon ... the possibilities are endless. If only those pesky people from the military and intelligence communities could be more open about their secrets - we, the honorable simmers, who have every right to have the most accurate information possible could finally rest, assured that our game does represent the reality.

Oh come on, be positive....in 70 years we will have FULL access to all that information

.

Hmmm... in 70 years, I'll be 125.
I don't think I can wait that long.

Castout · 11-29-08, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Nichols

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Quote:

Of course, the usually so open US Navy will be more than happy to have one of its contractors put highly classified and protected data into a freely commercial available product ... most excellent. Now if the other navies of the world could be as forthcomming, then all this guessing about the question "Are Akula's really up to par with a 688(i)" (for example) would finally be over. And thats only the tip of the iceberg ... you could test for "real" what a Mk48 ADCAP does to a Kilo compared to a Typhoon ... the possibilities are endless. If only those pesky people from the military and intelligence communities could be more open about their secrets - we, the honorable simmers, who have every right to have the most accurate information possible could finally rest, assured that our game does represent the reality.

Oh come on, be positive....in 70 years we will have FULL access to all that information

.

Hmmm... in 70 years, I'll be 125.
I don't think I can wait that long.

And I'll be about 100. I'll be in sheol, sleeping, in most probability.

SO SCS please give us a break. Alfa Tau and RA are the only hope for us

. Besides they are silly mods which in all probability doesn't and will never will compare to official add-on or your military grade product.

Onkel Neal · 12-02-08, 11:28 PM

I received word that it's ok to open the thread. Thanks for the understanding. A lot of people would have ignored this issue and done whatever they wanted. It's nice to be part of a responsible, serious group of subsim enthusiasts.

Neal
Subsim

PeriscopeDepth · 12-02-08, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I received word that it's ok to open the thread. Thanks for the understanding. A lot of people would have ignored this issue and done whatever they wanted. It's nice to be part of a responsible, serious group of subsim enthusiasts.

Neal
Subsim

Excellent, thank you sir. I am pleasantly surprised. I guess I could have discussed it at another forum, but my Russian is a little rusty.

PD

goldorak · 12-02-08, 11:55 PM

Ok nice to know that at least spelling A-T-3 and R-A won't have us throwned in the brigg and hanged on the public place.

Castout · 12-03-08, 10:42 PM

Thank you Sonalysts. Thank you Neal!

CapitanPiluso · 12-04-08, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Oh come on, be positive....in 70 years we will have FULL access to all that information

Don't we already have all the secret documents about the WW2 Fleet boats?

No, joking aside....I understand that many people want the "real" thing, but what if the real thing would be dissapointing? I'm having weekly a lot of fun with some friends using my Kilo or my Akula against a 688i, a Perry, an MH60 and we are already leaving the Seawolf out and downgrading a bit sonobuoys to have a more balanced and playable sim....after all this is just a game and we intend to have a balanced fun. Where would that go if the US side were able to simply crush the enemy without effort? (If that's the "real" thing we don't know). And, if the "real" thing is more balanced...well we have that already, don't we?

Either way we seem to have the best possible solution, so I say:

Realism? Yes, much wellcomed....but not as much as to kill fun, thanks.

I m with you on this

:FI:Rabitski · 12-06-08, 08:09 AM

I have a question about the RA mod, I was trying to fire the tigerfish torpedoes, each time I do I get the message that the wire has been severed and the torpedo disappears. Perhaps I have the mod installed wrong or something. Anybody have any idea on this. Sorry if this post is a bit off topic.

11-28-08, 09:09 AM	#76
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I'm loose (or on the loose ) ... and daydreams are ok, but some comments read like being made while on drugs (or maybe after some serious meditation) ... anyway, such stuff regularly brings out the sarcastic side in me. I just can't help it. Besides, while I don't hold my breath in regard to SCS changing its stance on community made new playables I surely would appreciate it, if it actually happens. Aside from that, while some people might believe that their anger (and thus their comments in regard to SCS) is "righteous" I for myself question that attitude (I dont remember seing the explicit right to mod DW or the definite promise of new playables on the game box - on the contrary, SCS made their stance clear before the release) ... after all its not advisable to bite the hand that feeds you or in this case to piss of the people you are asking to give up some of their money making options. I'm not advocating to be an ass kisser but it should be common sense that if you are asking for something (which we do through Neal) you better behave unless you are in a superior position (which we are clearly not). I think thats called being diplomatic. Think about it ... __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask! Last edited by OneShot; 11-28-08 at 09:10 AM.

11-28-08, 04:53 PM	#78
Raptor_341 Loader Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 89 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Realism should ALWAYS be the highest goal of any sim. Its why i own SB, ArmA, IL-2, each running the best realism mods and things out, oh, and GWX . Thats why without mods such as LWAMI or now RA that i just wouldnt even use DW, which is why i have endless support for them, whatever the cost. If you build to the highest level of realism, you can always set it down for people who like it that way. But the enemy of all simulations is balance, make it like it is, or as close to as it is, or not at all. __________________ MAD MARK, FULL SCALE!

12-03-08, 10:42 PM	#88
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Thank you Sonalysts. Thank you Neal! __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

11-28-08, 05:10 PM	#79
goldorak Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The problem is : if you make it too realistic then it isn't going to sell a lot. SCS should have decided upfront who were its potential customers for Dangerous Waters. The mass market or the niche market. Of course that choice would have reflected itself on the price of the sim. People spend what 100$/€ for a version of SBP, would such a price be viable for a naval sim ? What happens when you spend 100 €/$ for a sim and find out that they won't allow modding. You're going to be 100x more pissed off. :rotfl:

11-29-08, 12:47 AM	#80
MR. Wood Planesman Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Obetz, Ohio Posts: 182 Downloads: 170 Uploads: 5	are we ever going to hear back from them????

12-02-08, 11:28 PM	#85
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	I received word that it's ok to open the thread. Thanks for the understanding. A lot of people would have ignored this issue and done whatever they wanted. It's nice to be part of a responsible, serious group of subsim enthusiasts. Neal Subsim

12-02-08, 11:55 PM	#87
goldorak Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Ok nice to know that at least spelling A-T-3 and R-A won't have us throwned in the brigg and hanged on the public place.

12-06-08, 08:09 AM	#90
:FI:Rabitski Mate Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 51 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	I have a question about the RA mod, I was trying to fire the tigerfish torpedoes, each time I do I get the message that the wire has been severed and the torpedo disappears. Perhaps I have the mod installed wrong or something. Anybody have any idea on this. Sorry if this post is a bit off topic.