New Zealand no longer a christian country

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by kurtz

Order is the result of a will, and a will is an intelligence in motion. Simply negating that order indicates intelligence is no argument.

No it is a statement of fact. The statement that order indicates intelligence is a fallacious premise and invalidates the entire argument for the existence of a god

Why do you assume that's an argument, rather than an indicator. But I must be going.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Prof

Why do you assume that Christians don't think for themselves? The atheist rhetoric on this forum in the past few days is getting a little irritating.

Jesus camp?

[Skybird]

Holy scriptures... a waste of time...

Responsebility and reason - or believing and unexamining - you can't have both, and usually "being religious" leads to unknowing believers sticking their nose into other people's business and trying to make them what the first believes the latter should do. Thinking turns into heresy, not believing something unexamined deserves celestial penalty and eternal doom, and it is man-made God's will to use force and violance to deliver penalty not by His but by man's hands, so man does ultimately both: inventing the justification for violance, and carrying it out. That is the morality of those believing in scriptures, bible and quran alike. At the same time they claim that they act in the name of a God of "love" and "peace" and "freedom", while all they bring to man's world is intolerance, arrogance, lecturing, hate and violance, and of course the death penalty. Jesus set many examples why the death penalty is justified, the whole gospels are filled with his preachings on why death penalty and military invasions and being violant to defenders of a woman's principle right to abort is justified, sure the Gospel - 70 years of playing Chinese whispers, as somebody called them - are about all this!? And Muslims run around and use Sharia to justify mutilation, torturing victims of rape to death by stoning, and submit other people by the use of force. So when both obviosuly do not act according to what they preach about peace and love and freedom, at least they should stop the hypocracy and be decent enough to start preaching according to how they act. Because I find it easier to recognize a Goebbels as evil, than to tell a wolf in a sheep's clothing from a distance.

This is by Lin-Chi (Rinzai in Japanese), a man famous for his direct approach towards people, and who surely is not suspicious of wanting to have been seen as holy, or teaching something holy. If Chan ever taught anything, then that there is nothing holy and no "religiosity" worth to be taught (my imperfect translation):

The law of Buddha does not need endeavours. It consists of the ordinary life and has no goal: to sh!t and to p!ss, getting dressed, eating and sleeping when one is tired. The simple-minded may laugh about me – the wise know about it. […] My friends, I tell you: there is no Buddha, no teaching, no training, and no insight. What are you chasing for so bitterly? Do you want to put a second head on top of your own, you blind idiots? Your head is exactly where it should be. What are you missing, then?

Can't say it any more clearly.

Things wont be much better if Helen Clarke goes, her opposition leader John Key is a second generation jewish immigrant.

So an cowardly atheist is better for a christian nation than a decendant of someone who killed christ in the first place?

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Swede

Things wont be much better if Helen Clarke goes, her opposition leader John Key is a second generation jewish immigrant.

So an cowardly atheist is better for a christian nation than a decendant of someone who killed christ in the first place?

You really are a Nazi arent you?

no im not, but the guy who started this thread seemed concerned about this countrys christianity, and i just stated that neither of the two leading politicians will be of benefit to the christians here.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Swede

no im not, but the guy who started this thread seemed concerned about this countrys christianity, and i just stated that neither of the two leading politicians will be of benefit to the christians here.

So you are not one of those that gather for a circle jerk around Charles XIIs statue every year? Are you a Kiwi or a Swede?

You being (i assume) an estonian in Finland, could never possibly understand why people honour Karl XII. And if youve ever heard of a little thing called finska vinterkriget, then youd know that many swedes voulenteered and fought for Finland.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Swede

You being (i assume) an estonian in Finland, could never possibly understand why people honour Karl XII. And if youve ever heard of a little thing called finska vinterkriget, then youd know that many swedes voulenteered and fought for Finland.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Im a Finn in Finland. Karl XII was talented but he destroyed what his father Karl XI had build. And Gustavus Adolphus was a greater military leader IMO. My family fought in that little thing that lasted untill 1944 and cost the life of 90.000 Finns. My grandfather has still shrapnel in his ass for it. Yes 10,000 volunteered and honor to them but the fact is that as nation Sweden did very little. Considering Finns fought and died for Sweden over 500 years all over Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_and_the_Winter_War

[RedMenace]

Hey, Swede, with an email adress like masterace1@hotmail.com, we really don't want you hanging around here and giving SubSim a bad name, so either keep crazy opinions out of sight, or take your Nazi rhetoric to someone that gives a damn.

This isn't the first time that I and numerous other forumers have noticed your weird subtle propaganda, and I hope I'm not the only one utterly disgusted by it.

Im not spreading propaganda. And you are worse than me, saying that everyone is welcome as long as they agree with social norms and dont speak of controversial subjects. I dont hurt anyone, all i do is speak my mind. I could complain about your subtle communism, but i belive in people being allowed to speak their oppinions (however stupid they may seem)

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Swede

Im not spreading propaganda. And you are worse than me, saying that everyone is welcome as long as they agree with social norms and dont speak of controversial subjects. I dont hurt anyone, all i do is speak my mind. I could complain about your subtle communism, but i belive in people being allowed to speak their oppinions (however stupid they may seem)

This is a private internet forum; created and funded by Mr. Stevens. Free speech is great, but you, and everyone else, will have to adhere to the policies of this forum. I suggest that you very closely consider that hate speech is strictly forbidden on these forums. If that is an issue for you, then you will either have to go elsewhere, or be shown the door forcably. This will serve as your final warning.

The Management

[Fish]

Least Religious Countries

When you travel to Europe , don't be surprised to find that many Europeans don't believe in God. I have even witnessed some alcohol-infused conversations between Americans and Europeans that almost ended in fist fights over His/Her existence. When you travel to the following countries, you might want to pick a less controversial topic of conversation...umm, maybe George W?

Here is the Top 10 least religious countries in the world:

1. Sweden (up to 85% non-believer, atheist, agnostic)
2. Vietnam
3. Denmark
4. Norway
5. Japan
6. Czech Republic
7. Finland
8. France
9. South Korea
10. Estonia (up to 49% non-believer, atheist, agnostic)

The one that surprised me was Israel, ranking 19th, with up to 37% claiming to be non-believer, atheist, agnostic. Compare that with the US, ranking 44th, with 3-9% non-believers, atheists, agnostics. (I think I have met them all on the streets of New York City , too.)

The survey concluded that "high levels of organic atheism are strongly correlated with high levels of societal health, such as low homicide rates, low poverty rates, low infant mortality rates, and low illiteracy rates, as well as high levels of educational attainment, per capita income, and gender equality. Most nations characterized by high degrees of individual and societal security have the highest rates of organic atheism, and conversely, nations characterized by low degrees of individual and societal security have the lowest rates of organic atheism. In some societies, particularly Europe , atheism is growing. However, throughout much of the world – particularly nations with high birth rates – atheism is barely discernable."
http://www.gadling.com/2007/08/23/least-religious-countries/

[Skybird]

That list sounds as if it is not about how religious a country is, but to what degree it is "theistic". Japan for example. There are many different cults, and Shinto, and Animism, and Buddhism and Zen. Younger generations may tend to be less invovled with these things, nevertheless to say that Japan is a non-religious country is nonsens. It is not theistic, but still rests solid on Shinto and Zen. Japanese society without these simply cannot be imagined, currently. '

If anything, that lists seems to indicate a popular prejudice: that religion is only religion if it is theistic a religion and claims a divine entity/personality/character to sit at it's centre. And that prejudice is a no-brainer for me.

For methodical reasons (with regard to the paragraph in bold) one needs to remind everybody that correlations do not say anything about wether factor A is causing factor B, or the other way around, and also does not say anything about possible intermittent variables. A correlations only says something on the probability that two variables show up simultaneously - no matter if there are causal links or not.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

You really are a Nazi arent you?

Reading his posts....