[REL] Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, full release

[mikehcl]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

mike,
i have seen that before. in fact, i have learned to rely on it.
if i know that a significant date for new equipment is/has arrived, i will purposely save while in port on refit, exit, and restart/reload with the expectation of seeing the availability of new equipment, weapons, ammo, etc.
i suspect it is a flaw in the logic of date vs equipment vs GUI-presentation.
i don't mean to patronize but it is a known logic flaw with programming that it not designed and written correctly.
just know that it happens and be alert for it.
good luck.

Thanks for the explanation. I hadn't been playing SH4 for several years and i didn't remember this known problem.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

It's already a "known issue" because it is the stock game. We usually use that designation in the mod documentation for things we have attempted to fix, or caused from something else. We could certainly add it in though...

The particular issue comes about from when you enter the scene from a Save load, and no matter what you had your telegraph set to or what route you have programmed in on the NavMap, the sub goes to "All Stop". My guess at the reason it does that, is because the helm no longer follows your set course when you reload a Save, if you have a course set. Hence, when you re-load a Save, you have to set the speed you want, go to the NavMap screen and "Return to course"... That's just the way they built the game. We cannot touch that as modders in a text-based file.

Just go to one of the nav points and move it slightly. That will return your boat to the course and set speed to Ahead Standard.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by mikehcl

Hi, something (maybe) strange happened to me .. last night i finished the first mission, I went back to Midway and i checked if I had some new torpedo, radar etc etc and i didn't have any new updates. Now i have loaded the game to leave for the second patrol and i see that i have the torpedo mark 10 available, i exit the game again, i go back to the windows, i return to the game and i see that i have many new torpedo available, like mark 16, mark 18, mark 23, new surface and airborne radar, new decks, but is this normal?
Sorry for my english.

Now, the Mark 10 is planned to appear for Fleet Boats as an optional torpedo sometime after January 1, 1942, because some sites did not have full supplies of Mark 14 torpedoes, ~and~ the Mark 14 torpedoes were gaining a quick "unreliable" reputation by the skippers. BurOrd of course, thought them impeccably beyond reproach, and the skippers wonky. Some skippers wanted the Mark 10s instead, in spite of the difficulties in using them on a Fleet Boat, hence the renown cost to the Fleet Boat skippers. S-Boat skippers get them for "free". They will "disappear" as an option for Fleet Boats after just a bit.

Depending upon when you started the game, it might be you should not be seeing anything else in the same time period as the Mark 10 torpedoes are available. The deck guns, the AA guns, the other torpedoe versions, all else should be the same as when you start. You'll start seeing new radars and AA guns before anything else, beginning in May, June and August of 1942. The other torpedoes are not supposed to show until May of 1943 at the earliest, and the Mark 10s are long-gone for Fleet Boats.

As KaleunMarco mentions, the game can indeed be strange about when and where it issues equipment, but can you tell us a few more details of what you encountered. I would be interested in knowing which boat you had at Midway, when you started your career, and what the date was when you first went to leave, and when you next went to leave after the Save. Did you happen to re-dock for that Save? Thank you!

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

Thanks again, yes, as you say you must be "while on the NavMap screen and menu"
Gosh, these details...I was just standing in the sub but didn't go in the map.


Greetings,
XS

XS,

there is another situation you may encounter upon reloading a mission.
if you are underway but not following waypoints, you will continue on course and speed as your mission is reloaded.

one other thing, you can arm keyboard shortcuts for Plot Course and Resume Course and use them from any screen. this will resolve the defect you have discovered when you reload and are underway following waypoints: touch the resume course key, touch a ETO key (or vice versa) and you are underway!

good luck!

[XenonSurf]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

Just go to one of the nav points and move it slightly. That will return your boat to the course and set speed to Ahead Standard.

Sorry torpedobait, I'm afraid I have completly missed your post
This will help me great, also the above post.




Thanks and greetings!
XS

[mikehcl]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Now, the Mark 10 is planned to appear for Fleet Boats as an optional torpedo sometime after January 1, 1942, because some sites did not have full supplies of Mark 14 torpedoes, ~and~ the Mark 14 torpedoes were gaining a quick "unreliable" reputation by the skippers. BurOrd of course, thought them impeccably beyond reproach, and the skippers wonky. Some skippers wanted the Mark 10s instead, in spite of the difficulties in using them on a Fleet Boat, hence the renown cost to the Fleet Boat skippers. S-Boat skippers get them for "free". They will "disappear" as an option for Fleet Boats after just a bit.

Depending upon when you started the game, it might be you should not be seeing anything else in the same time period as the Mark 10 torpedoes are available. The deck guns, the AA guns, the other torpedoe versions, all else should be the same as when you start. You'll start seeing new radars and AA guns before anything else, beginning in May, June and August of 1942. The other torpedoes are not supposed to show until May of 1943 at the earliest, and the Mark 10s are long-gone for Fleet Boats.

As KaleunMarco mentions, the game can indeed be strange about when and where it issues equipment, but can you tell us a few more details of what you encountered. I would be interested in knowing which boat you had at Midway, when you started your career, and what the date was when you first went to leave, and when you next went to leave after the Save. Did you happen to re-dock for that Save? Thank you!

So I left Midway with a Tambor for the first patrol on December 8, 1941, during the same mission they assigned me 3 patrols, the first of 10 days and the other 2 patrols of 5 days each, finished all the patrols assigned I returned to Midway and the second mission started on February 3, 1942, but I didn't start, so I left the game yesterday evening, today I returned and saw the update of the torpedo mark 10, then I had to leave new from the game because i had more to do and when i got back in the game the second time i saw all these updates.

[WH4K]

Small nitpick, but the Asiatic–Pacific Campaign Medal was not created until November, 1942. I've received this award well before that date in the game. Any way to fix this?


another: It seems to take an inordinate amount of shells to destroy a landed aircraft. For example, the landed H6K's one often sees at dock. It took around 40 hits with HE shells to destroy one in a patrol I was playing last night.


Even a larger aircraft shouldn't take more than 2-3 direct hits to "sink" I wouldn't think, even though the Gato's starting deck gun is "only" a 3" model. Any way to adjust that?


update: Just destroyed a docked H6K with only 6 shells, so maybe it's totally random.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by mikehcl

So I left Midway with a Tambor for the first patrol on December 8, 1941, during the same mission they assigned me 3 patrols, the first of 10 days and the other 2 patrols of 5 days each, finished all the patrols assigned I returned to Midway and the second mission started on February 3, 1942, but I didn't start, so I left the game yesterday evening, today I returned and saw the update of the torpedo mark 10, then I had to leave new from the game because i had more to do and when i got back in the game the second time i saw all these updates.

Thanks for the additional info. Did you Dock and then "Save" again each time you had to leave the game, and did the date then advance in the game? Or are you still dealing with a February 3, 1942 departure?

Originally Posted by WH4K

Small nitpick, but the Asiatic–Pacific Campaign Medal was not created until November, 1942. I've received this award well before that date in the game. Any way to fix this?

another: It seems to take an inordinate amount of shells to destroy a landed aircraft. For example, the landed H6K's one often sees at dock. It took around 40 hits with HE shells to destroy one in a patrol I was playing last night.

Even a larger aircraft shouldn't take more than 2-3 direct hits to "sink" I wouldn't think, even though the Gato's starting deck gun is "only" a 3" model. Any way to adjust that?

Unfortunately, the game does not always give things when appropriate. We'll look into the medal, but it might be that the game does what the game does, as we've found with all sorts of supposed "date constraints" that really aren't. As for the Landed H6K, that is the stock "plane". We do have plans to bring Traveller's version in, permission already granted. His planes catch fire and blow up nicely, but have not had the time to do that yet.

[mikehcl]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Thanks for the additional info. Did you Dock and then "Save" again each time you had to leave the game, and did the date then advance in the game? Or are you still dealing with a February 3, 1942 departure?



Unfortunately, the game does not always give things when appropriate. We'll look into the medal, but it might be that the game does what the game does, as we've found with all sorts of supposed "date constraints" that really aren't. As for the Landed H6K, that is the stock "plane". We do have plans to bring Traveller's version in, permission already granted. His planes catch fire and blow up nicely, but have not had the time to do that yet.

Thank you! No, I didn't save, I just quit the game. Anyway now I have loaded the last autosave that made me play the game last night as soon as I returned to midway and this time everything is correct, the only update I have is that of the torpedo mark 10.
The date is always 3 february 1942.

[propbeanie]

Excellent. Thanks. I'll look into the Tambor, and see if maybe there is a glitch in the display, or maybe a date mis-match that did that.

[KaleunMarco]

Hey PB, check this out.


starting a mission, April 1945, SH4 presents me with TWO primary objectives.
WTF!!!!

all of the associated files look normal.
CareerTrack.upc
PlayerCurrentObjectiveCode=East China Sea
PlayerDefaultObjectives=ID100
PlayerCurrentObjectives=ID100
PatrolStartDateTime=1945-04-01 07:35:45

Sink East China Sea 02.mis
[MapZone 1]
Name=Sink East China Sea 02_Zone1
Radius=200.000000
MaxHeight=1000.000000
MinHeight=-1000.000000
Long=14867960.000000
Lat=3208600.000000
Height=0.000000

[Objective 1]
ObjName=Sink East China Sea 02_Objective1
Obj=1
ObjType=0
RenownAwarded=250
ZoneName=Sink East China Sea 02_Zone1

[Objective 2]
ObjName=Sink East China Sea 02_Objective2
Obj=2
ObjType=2
RenownAwarded=250
Tonnage=4000
TonnageType=0

[Trigger 1]
TrigName=Sink East China Sea 02_Trigger2
Type=2
ObjName=Sink East China Sea 02_Objective1
ObjState=0

[Event 1]
EventName=Sink East China Sea 02_Event2
Type=1
TriggersNo=1
Trigger1=Sink East China Sea 02_Trigger2
Obj=Sink East China Sea 02_Objective2
Cmd=1

[Event 2]
EventName=Sink East China Sea 02_Mes1
Type=0
TriggersNo=1
Trigger1=Sink East China Sea 02_Trigger2
RepeatedUntilReceived=true
Critical=false

so, the $50,000 question is: how did it happen?
damned if i can figure it out.

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\FOTRSU_81\MODS]

100_FalloftheRisingSun_UltimateEdition_v1.0.1.g_EN
100a_D3D9_AntiLag
100b_EasyAOB_FotRSU
100c_NoScrollNavMap_FotRSU
100d_strategic_map_symbols

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

Hey PB, check this out...
...
...so, the $50,000 question is: how did it happen?
...

How? Why, it was written that way! You can have as many primary missions in a scenario as you want. You can have just as many Secondary missions also... the idea being "All Missions Are Important - so follow orders!" - but seriously, probably just forgot to flip the Objective type. I experimented a little with a few missions like that, where you are assigned a Patrol mission of so many days, which still stands, of course, but upon arrival in the area, you are told to sink ships, which would be the natural thing to do, but with the "Patrol" objective, you are tied to the area before you can go anywhere you want to. Each Objective is independent of the other, and you receive points for completing both. If I remember correctly, you can leave the area, and it does hold the time already committed, so you can chase a target out of the patrol zone and "pause" the time on the "Patrol Objective", and when you re-enter the zone, the clock starts again from where you left off...

Now all I have to do is figure out how to "Search" for those missions with two Primary Objectives of Patrol and Sink at the same time...

[SubmarinerJoe]

Just found this mod and it looks fantastic, I think I will install it tomorrow when I get a chance; however, i'd like to ask a couple of questions.

The only other mod i've played with is Trigger Maru and, while it's a great mod, I just don't feel as immersed in the game as I would like. You get those little movies saying something like, "We're going to be patrolling around the Solomons." then you get sent on random missions near French Indochina...

Ultimately, I guess what I want to know is, are the missions throughout the career attempting to be more realistic despite making it "boring" as you said in the original post? Personally, I would prefer this. One of my big problems with this game both in vanilla and in Trigger Maru is that I don't really feel a sense of accomplishment taking down a Japanese ship. After a few patrols where i'm routinely sinking tens of thousands of tonnage, it just feels like i'm a one-man US Navy and honestly, I don't like that feeling.

So, is the overall goal of this mod to make things a little more realistic, immersive, and dare I say, difficult? As in, I still might be proud of a patrol even if I don't sink a single ship? I know i'm a weirdo because of this but feeling like a submarine Rambo just really kills the vibe for me.

Also, i'd like to acknowledge how much work went into this, like I said it looks fantastic!

[propbeanie]

More difficult? No. It is actually easier than Stock in some regards, but that's where that "realistic" comes in, in that the US subs initially had no idea how inept the Japanese management of convoy escorting was. Some areas were really tough, others not so much. The main thing against the US submarines at the beginning of the war was torpedo performance. Some would say a lack of skipper aggression, but from what I've read over the years, a lot of the skippers were removed from command because they didn't sink anything. Well, "torpedoes". The attempt has been for realistic "feeling" in the early "orders", and in the Japanese "escorts" behavior". Some will seem downright inept - but the US skippers did not know this at the time. Also, the world about you "moves", and not just out in the middle of the ocean. You will see Allied forces as well as Axis, and as the game progresses, you will see surface and air engagements. No dogfights though, because the game's AI doesn't do that...

The bik movies will still play, and they do follow the "famous" parts of the war in the Pacific, but if you are based in Pearl, you will usually not be assigned the Solomon's area. Neither will you be if based in Fremantle. This is not to say you can't go there though. While FotRSU is based more upon "follow orders" because you get more points by completing objectives as opposed to sinking ships (which also blunts high scores some), there is basically no penalty for doing whatever you want to in the game. So in that regard, "orders" were worded differently for the first round of missions assigned, as well as some of the 2nd round assignments. We might eventually work our way through them all, but those "generic" assignments are still in there, due to the way the DynamicMiss functions with Status Updates. We do have ideas for further refinement of those assignments also though.

If you attempt to do as US sub skipper might, and you have "duds" activated in the gameplay menu, you will be proud of yourself for sinking one ship per patrol. We have worked on the damage models of some of the ships, and some no longer have "glass jaws", but there are still quite a few of those. You will also encounter the occasional maniacal DD skipper that won't turn you loose, and he helps keep his brothers on your tail. While FotRSU is based on TMO, it has morphed with what the AOTD_MadMax team did several years ago with it, and has morphed even further with the FotRSU Mod Team's work on it. Give it a whirl, see if you like it. Just be sure you empty the Save folder contents after activating it and prior to starting the game with it, and do not have SH4 in a Program Files folder, else the mod won't "take". Simplified instructions in the first post here, and on the download page, but all sorts of boring stuff in the mod's Support folder...

[SubmarinerJoe]

Thanks for the response! I've played all of ten minutes this morning after installing and will get back to it later this afternoon, but I can say my first impressions are very positive.

Sailing out of Manila with so many other ships/subs/planes buzzing around really makes you feel like you're a smaller part of a larger machine (which is honestly one of the main things I wanted.)

Big shoutout to all who contributed, the mod looks awesome so far!