Who will be the next President of the United States?

[NEON DEON]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I agree here with Skybird. Time to throw in the towel for Hillary. Let the two potential candidates for Republicans and Democrates take the stage.

Now would be a good time for Obama to convince Clinton to quit.

Before West VA, KY, and Purerto Rico.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

I don't even think I care anymore. At the outset, the race was exciting, with a large field of hopefuls, lots of issue to discuss, etc.

Now, months and numerous debates later... I've seen the "true colors" of the remaining 3 hopefuls and I know that no matter what happens, the next President will be as lackluster as the current one but hopefully less damaging...

But, I will vote regardless. That way I can "gripe" when the new Prez doesn't come up to snuff...

I do not think the three in question are lack luster as to what we currently experiencing in the White House. However, I will give the Devil his due and will say Bush was handed a bad set of cards at the beginning of his second term. At any rate, I invision the same old status quo with Hillary and McCain. This status quo not really working anymore. I see a change in the status quo with Obama but have to admit, he is very young. He needs more time under his belt. No matter what we think, Obama will make the White House. Prepare for a 28% increase in taxes. Prepare for a tax and spend government. Prepare to keep paying the high gas prices. Either way, we are stuck with status quo for 4 years or stuck with a president not ready and bumbling around for 4 years.

Welcome to the rudderless ship on the voyage to nowhere

[DeepIron]

At any rate, I invision the same old status quo with Hillary and McCain. This status quo not really working anymore.

I think that sums it up nicely. The status quo is verba non acta (words without action) and I can't realistically see that changing, especially if Obama wins. He's simply to new/young/inexperienced/deluded to make it happen.

I think Clinton or McCain would have more "weight" to throw in the system but then again, videre ist credere (seeing is believing).

Howevre, I expect no matter the outcome, the average American citizen, as usual, will be the one to bite the bullet, tighten the belt and get the job done...


I love Latin...

[Tchocky]

America is in horrendous amounts of debt, a lot of it very recent. (regrettably necessary disclaimer - That's not any sort of anti-americanism, it's just the truth. Nor is it a situation specific to the US.)
No matter who you elect, taxes are going to go up, or the debt will get worse.

"Tax and spend government" - This is what every government does. The business cycle implies years of surplus and years of deficit, none of this is totally good or totally bad. Governments don't balance budgets becase it's not always a good idea, and it's very rarely posssible/desirable.

No candidate is going to lower your gas prices. By lower I mean significantly and for a reasonable period of time, so no rabbitting on about tax holidays. Cheap oil is ho-ver.

[Tchocky]

W

T

F




Someone explain this to me

[Platapus]

What's not to understand about this video?

It is a political campaign venue to put a more human side to John McCain.

Seems pretty harmless to me.

What specifically don't you understand about this advertisement?

[Tchocky]

I get the point of the ad alright, it's just so cringeworthy and forced. i can barely stay focused on it, my fingers keep crawling towards Alt-F4 of their own accord. I can't believe it got out the campaign door.
It's to make him look younger, right? :p

Almost as bad as this one -

[Platapus]

I wonder why people keep talking about how inexperienced Obama is?

Obama served seven years as a member of the state senate
Obama served four years as a member of the federal senate

Thats 11 years of political leadership experience

Lets see how that experience matches up with the past presidents who have served in the last 30 years.

George W Bush served five years as a governor. He had no other experience

Thats 6 years less political leadership experience than Obama.

Bill Clinton served eleven years as a governor. He had no other experience

He had the same number of years political leadership as Obama

George H W Bush served four years in the federal congress
George H W Bush served eight years as the Vice President

He has one year more experience than Obama

Ronald Reagan served eight years as a governor. He had no other experience

Thats 3 years less political leadership experience than Obama

Jimmy Carter served four years on the state senate
Jimmy Carter served four years as a Governor.

Thats 3 years less political leadership experience than Obama

Out of the previous five presidents (3 of which served two terms) stretching over the past 31 years:

One person had more political leadership experience than Obama - George H W Bush and most of that as the VP

One person has the same number of years of political leadership as Obama - Bill Clinton

Three people had less years of political leadership as Obama when they ran for President.

There is good and bad to be said about Obama, but claiming that he is too inexperienced for the presidency does not match up with the past 31 years.

Now an argument can be made on the quality of the leadership, but that will be very subjective.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

I get the point of the ad alright, it's just so cringeworthy and forced.

Oh I agree totally. Very contrived and you could see how both of them were very uncomfortable doing this.

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

political leadership experience

Erm, a senator, especially a state senator, is hardly a leadership position. Governor, speaker, minority whip, even i suppose a committee chairman yeah, but not a rank and file representative seat.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by August

Erm, a senator, especially a state senator, is hardly a leadership position.

Really? Have you ever worked any state government issues? The state senates do a lot both in and outside their states. Evidently much of it unknown by the citizens.

But, for the sake of argument, lets remove all state government positions. Then the list gets bigger for presidents who had no political leadership experience.

GWB? Zero experience
Bill Clinton? Zero experience
Reagan? Zero experience
Carter? Zero experience

That leaves only one person that was elected president that equals or has greater political leadership experience than Obama and that would be GHWB.

I don't think you are making the argument you intended

I guess if we limit the argument to specifically the jobs that Obama never held then I guess he is inexperienced. Yes Obama has never been a governor and I will grant you that four of the past five presidents were ex-governors.

So if your criteria for "experience" is limited to being a governor than yes the claim that Obama is inexperienced would be correct.

I chose not to limit the criteria, but to include all the state and federal leadership positions. I do not accept that a "rank and file" Senator is not in a leadership position. They may not be in a leadership position WITHIN congress but they are still the ones who make the laws and make decision for the entire country.

In my book that is a leadership position

YMMV

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Really? Have you ever worked any state government issues?

No, have you?

But, for the sake of argument, lets remove all state government positions.

No, just the ones in the LEGISLATIVE branch. We can keep the EXECUTIVE branch positions, since it's the job of chief EXECUTIVE that we're talking about.

I don't think you are making the argument you intended

But I wasn't making an argument on Obamas leadership experience, I was just pointing out a flaw in yours. Imo NONE of the three candidates have much in the way of leadership experience.

[Tchocky]

Would national Senators not have considerable leadership experience in the state they represent?
Well, maybe not considerable, but at least some.

[Steel_Tomb]

Whats this I hear about Obama wanting to reduce the US military to levels pre-wwII? Is this true? If so, gg obama... disarm when every state who chats "death to America and Israel" are scrambling for nukes. He may have political experience, but so does GWB... doesn't mean they have common sence or would make good leaders though! Personally I've never been a fan of Obama. Hes your typical charismatic "leader" who does well at speaches and public appearances, but as soon as it comes to a political crisis they just become a useless bag of jelly... relying on their "advisors" to make the decisions for them, or push them in one direction so much instead of forming his own decision he just goes with the flow. Which in my books isn't exaclty the hallmark of a good leader!

[August]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Would national Senators not have considerable leadership experience in the state they represent?
Well, maybe not considerable, but at least some.

Not really Tchocky. They have no authority in their home state. They have some influence to be sure but no ability to give orders to anyone in state government.