[WIP] Historical Guns Specs

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by gap

have seen you have deviced costs only
for the fitting of one of each gun model. Nonetheless looking into UpgradePacks.upc, I have noticed that there are also options for fitting a second gun of each type, or two guns of each type at once.

I've looked at UpgradePacks.upc and think I understand your point about fitting multiple guns. It seems like the packs are designed to replicate different turm arrangements although some of them, such as the single 20mm Zwilling, are not so historical. Would it be possible to customize the existing upgrade packs to suit historical turm configurations, deleting the ahistorical upgrade packs and keeping those that work for our purposes? One problem is that none of the packs combine different caliber flak guns, such as the 20cm Flakvierling and the 2 x 20cm Zwillings of the early Turm IV. Instead, there are single and double variations of the same gun. Do you think we could combine multiple guns for one upgrade pack?

[gap]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

I've looked at UpgradePacks.upc and think I understand your point about fitting multiple guns. It seems like the packs are designed to replicate different turm arrangements although some of them, such as the single 20mm Zwilling, are not so historical. Would it be possible to customize the existing upgrade packs to suit historical turm configurations, deleting the ahistorical upgrade packs and keeping those that work for our purposes?

I think so. I still haven't found the cfg file(s) where turm upgrades are set, but we should be able to edit their availability dates, renown costs, U-boat types which accept them, guns accepted by each turm, etc, just as we do with other upgrades.

I really need to find and look into these settings

Originally Posted by keysersoze

One problem is that none of the packs combine different caliber flak guns, such as the 20cm Flakvierling and the 2 x 20cm Zwillings of the early Turm IV. Instead, there are single and double variations of the same gun. Do you think we could combine multiple guns for one upgrade pack?

The game treats light (20mm single and twin) and heavy Flak guns (37mm and Flakvierling) separately. Type VIIA boats have just one "gun linking point" in the aft deck, and it can be equipped with just one light gun. Other U-boat models, with more advanced conning towers, can accept one or two light guns on top of the tower (but I suppose that, if 2 guns are selected, they must be of the same type), and one heavy gun in the Wintergarten. Light and heavy guns can be used in any combination.

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

I think so. I still haven't found the cfg file(s) where turm upgrades are set, but we should be able to edit their availability dates, renown costs, U-boat types which accept them, guns accepted by each turm, etc, just as we do with other upgrades.

.upcge? data/submarine/NSS_Uboat**?

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

.upcge? data/submarine/NSS_Uboat**?

yes, and also data/UPCDataGE/UPCUnitsData/UnitParts*.upc

those files contain a lot of settings. Some of them seem to be related with conning towers, and Flag guns slots. But where are availability/cost settings? IIRC, conning towers are available in campaign, depending on date, and they are subject to a cost as any other upgrade, but I cannot see these settings in game files

[Jace11]

You are quite welcome to use these files. They are made with the older version of the GR2 editor again, sorry. I am wary of using the latest version if, as you said, it doesn't open files I have already changed. I've made quite a few edits in my install and would have to start from scratch with the new editor and I can't remember half of what I've done already.

Some of the eqp entries I modded previously to bring forward some throwers and HHog to be in game before the campaign ends. Historically I think HHog was in general use mid 43, but I have read of it being installed on a few ships in late 42. You can edit the dates etc if you wish, its just the GR2 files that are essential for the new hardpoints. I've attached the new "bones" to the relevant hull parts where necessary.

Flower + 2 extra KGuns 19410102
A Class + 2 KGuns 19400402, "A" turret NULL 19420702, HHog from 19430302
B Class,+ 2 KGuns 19400202, "A" turret NULL 19420602, HHog from 19430202
Tribal,+ 2 KGuns 19410102

HogIsland, All inverted AA guns flipped to be above deck and they seem to have correct field of fire without further edits. + 4" gun at stern with 20 -340 degree traverse - basically copied Liberty stern turret values and its fire restrictions but used a british uncovered deck gun instead???. It is linked to the the HogIsland stern, so should the player blow the stern off it shouldn't float in the air or look weird, it should stay attached. The sim file for this ship is necessary as it contains the turret angles, but it also contains a further mod to remove the ship reflection on water.. sorry.


http://www.gamefront.com/files/23332...ts+and+Hog.zip

P.S Ill get back to aircraft at some point but Im away next week , I did find the float plane still switches skins even when it is the only plane present. So while your new method can replicate this extra skin thing, it still means the skins will flip at a certain LOD for the secondary skin (e.g British), If only 1 plane is presnet and it uses the primary skin no LOD switching is seen. If 2 planes are present (1 of each nation) both planes LOD switch skins . Much like ships do with external cam... I thought this was hardcoded, but I saw lots of LOD values in the ship GR2s, I wonder if these control switching things in and out of view..


Are there any other ships that have very broken guns etc? I use the Ditmarchen as a Dale class tanker (a ship mod from OHII) I think that could use a couple of guns as its pretty defenseless from what I remember.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Jace11

You are quite welcome to use these files.

Thanks sir, tomorrow I will have a deep look into you files

Originally Posted by Jace11

They are made with the older version of the GR2 editor again, sorry. I am wary of using the latest version if, as you said, it doesn't open files I have already changed.

If you limited yourself to add/flip bones, there are high hopes that your files are not corrupted.

Originally Posted by Jace11

I've made quite a few edits in my install and would have to start from scratch with the new editor and I can't remember half of what I've done already.

The good news is that some of the older versions of the editor opens the GR2 files (planes) modified by you, so you can get again an idea of your changes, and redo them with the latest version of TDW's util

Originally Posted by Jace11

Some of the eqp entries I modded previously to bring forward some throwers and HHog to be in game before the campaign ends. Historically I think HHog was in general use mid 43, but I have read of it being installed on a few ships in late 42. You can edit the dates etc if you wish, its just the GR2 files that are essential for the new hardpoints. I've attached the new "bones" to the relevant hull parts where necessary.

Flower + 2 extra KGuns 19410102
A Class + 2 KGuns 19400402, "A" turret NULL 19420702, HHog from 19430302
B Class,+ 2 KGuns 19400202, "A" turret NULL 19420602, HHog from 19430202
Tribal,+ 2 KGuns 19410102

For some warships, it is relatively easy to get information on the evolution of their armaments. Little by little, I am building a little library of web sites and e-books covering this topic. I will check the units listed by you, and I will let you know if I find anything.

Originally Posted by Jace11

HogIsland, All inverted AA guns flipped to be above deck and they seem to have correct field of fire without further edits. + 4" gun at stern with 20 -340 degree traverse - basically copied Liberty stern turret values and its fire restrictions but used a british uncovered deck gun instead???. It is linked to the the HogIsland stern, so should the player blow the stern off it shouldn't float in the air or look weird, it should stay attached.

Originally Posted by Jace11

Are there any other ships that have very broken guns etc? I use the Ditmarchen as a Dale class tanker (a ship mod from OHII) I think that could use a couple of guns as its pretty defenseless from what I remember.

Yes, there are many of these gross mistakes. Several of them don't take long to be fixed. Flipping bones, adding new ones, tweaking turret controllers, etc. are easily done, but the other day I had to change the parent of some of Rocket's gun linking bones (the guns were floating in the air when her hull broke apart), and I had to edit manually the parent id of several controllers, because all the id's connected with the relocated bones (including their old and new parent bones) had changed

Originally Posted by Jace11

The sim file for this ship is necessary as it contains the turret angles, but it also contains a further mod to remove the ship reflection on water.. sorry.

Okay, no problem, if needed retrieving those reflections shouldn't be a bif deal anyway.

Originally Posted by Jace11

P.S Ill get back to aircraft at some point but Im away next week , I did find the float plane still switches skins even when it is the only plane present. So while your new method can replicate this extra skin thing, it still means the skins will flip at a certain LOD for the secondary skin (e.g British), If only 1 plane is presnet and it uses the primary skin no LOD switching is seen. If 2 planes are present (1 of each nation) both planes LOD switch skins . Much like ships do with external cam... I thought this was hardcoded, but I saw lots of LOD values in the ship GR2s, I wonder if these control switching things in and out of view..

Lod models use the same rules as main unit models. If you want them to use the correct skin (as assigned in cfg file) you should edit their main material as per my instructions otherways, they will alway use the first texture

[volodya61]

Here is All the torpedoes modified for torpedoe's failure patches (GenericPatcher add-on) - already included in the Generic Patcher (MODS folder) (since v1.0.100.0)

The fixes contained in this package were especially designed for working together with TDW's torpedo failure patches, and for bringing in game balanced torpedo failure probabilities. For better results, it is recommended to use either of the versions listed below and to enable ALL of the failure patches by TDW.

List of the versions:

- Stock torpedoes: regular version. Enable it anywhere in your mod list using JSGME.

- Stock torpedoes - MagDet range 3m: as above, but magnetic detonator's range of activation increased from 2 (stock setting) to 3 m.

- FX Update torpedoes: FX Update compatible. Enable it after the said mod.

- FX Update torpedoes - MagDet range 3m: as above, but magnetic detonator's range of activation increased to 3 m.

[gap]

Thank you Volodya, link added to the first page

[volodya61]

My new (old) thoughts about Reworked U-boat Guns -

I decided to revert to the old values for elevation animation because new fine tuning of animation start/end indexes will take too much time..
I'll test all guns again to see how they works in rough sea.. and then we could release sub guns mod as a part of future Historic Guns mod..
I think, M42 Twin we could to include later, as soon as its issue will be solved..
As for the folder UPCDataGe, we can make two versions -
stock - included only gun's .sim files
EUF compatible - included all the files of UPCDataGe

e.g. I'm using my own edition of EUF and I need only .sim files, the files of UPCDataGe I will to edit anyway..

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

My new (old) thoughts about Reworked U-boat Guns -

I decided to revert to the old values for elevation animation because new fine tuning of animation start/end indexes will take too much time..

I'll test all guns again to see how they works in rough sea.. and then we could release sub guns mod as a part of future Historic Guns mod..
I think, M42 Twin we could to include later, as soon as its issue will be solved..
As for the folder UPCDataGe, we can make two versions -
stock - included only gun's .sim files
EUF compatible - included all the files of UPCDataGe

e.g. I'm using my own edition of EUF and I need only .sim files, the files of UPCDataGe I will to edit anyway..

subscribed

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

subscribed

Good

I think it will not take much time.. a week or less

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

Good

I think it will not take much time.. a week or less

After a second thought, what about merging my and your changes to EUF files, and releasing our guns in one version?

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

After a second thought, what about merging my and your changes to EUF files, and releasing our guns in one version?

Not sure I got you right.. what do you mean?
On the other hand two versions not needed, just inform that to use without EUF requires to remove folder UPCDataGE..

EDIT: on the third hand () everyone use EUF now.. those like me who use edited EUF version will be able to edit files by themselves.. at least I think so

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

It is the patch making Flakvierling to switch from four-guns fire to two-guns fire

Gabriele

I'm sorry
four-guns fire and two-guns fire , is this mean - at the same time?
two-guns fire: at first the first pair, then the second pair, while the first one recharges, correct?

PS: if so, I think we should keep in the mod two-guns fire only..

[gap]

Originally Posted by gap

After a second thought, what about merging my and your changes to EUF files, and releasing our guns in one version?

Originally Posted by volodya61

Not sure I got you right.. what do you mean?

I meant that if you have improved EUF general settings, we could base the new gun settings on your version of UpgradePacks.upc, rather than on the one from EUF

Originally Posted by volodya61

Gabriele

I'm sorry
four-guns fire and two-guns fire , is this mean - at the same time?
two-guns fire: at first the first pair, then the second pair, while the first one recharges, correct?

PS: if so, I think we should keep in the mod two-guns fire only..

It should work like this:

four-guns fire: this was the firing mode used in emergency cases, because it allowed to dispatch an heavy gunfire load in a short time; in game: the four muzzles will fire in short sequence (i.e: top right, then bottom left, then bottom right, then top left and again top right, etc.). Gun reloading times will be a bit longer, because the two couples of guns will need to be reloaded at the same time.

two-guns fire: this was the firing mode used most commonly, because it allowed for a more accurate fire control and for a more continuous gunfire flux; in game: only a pair of muzzles will fire (either top right/bottom left or top left/bottom right, I don't remember exactly now). In reality, the firing couple of guns alternated, but there is no way to simulate it in game. Gun reloading times will be a bit shorter, because one pair of guns would have been reloaded while the other pair was still firing.

That's all