UK Politics Thread

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Bleiente

I completely agree with STEED.
We are just fooled.

Conservatives weak divided mess with a useless PM, Labour weak divided mess as well and even more out of control.



There has been a decline in standards at Westminster which has been slow but without doubt getting worst. The worst of the lot are career politicians who really stink of rotten eggs.

[ikalugin]

Vote UKIP?

[STEED]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Vote UKIP?

No thanks, extreme right wing have flocked to them and their leader is as sham.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Skybird

May has no chance to get what she wants. She never had. Nor would have anyone else in her place. Because Britain wants more sovereignty again - and this sin is unforgivable in the EU's percpetion.

PM May was never any good and by her own actions calling a general election weaken her even further. Yes she won but at a cost forming a coalition with the DUP. And her handling of Brexit has gone from a mess to a dam right joke, result of which her own party is ripping itself apart with all this crap about leadership challenges which so far has been jack squat.


The EU must be laughing its socks off at our weak government.

[skidman]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I'm still thinking some sort of deal will be struck but nor would I be bothered if we end up with no deal.

THERE WILL BE NO IRISH BORDER

British irrationality summarized in two lines. Go ahead Jimbo: Eat the cake and have it.

[STEED]

Safe Brexit sex...




With a bit of kink..




Snap them up quickly the UKIP conference is in town for a few days.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1M11SS

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

No matter my sympathy for the British Brexit project, I annot save the British from havign made one desastrous mistake - to have underestumated form all beginning on how hard the EU would try to crack down on them to execute a deterring exmaple. But if you go bvack, I preicted right this behavuour and inteiton at the ver ybeginning of this one and a half year ago. The British side thought the Germans would influence trhe EU on behalf of pressure form german industry. It has not happened, and weill not happen. Thy thought they would get a special deal outside the ruleset of the EU, and this again will not happen.


What astionishes me is how long the Brits have stucxk to these illusions. Instead of seriousl putting all time and effort into preparing a had Brexit and then going early for it to prevent business evading - a very confrontational but in my conviction the only possible and thus necessary way to go - they hoped and still seem to hope for a miracle. But the EU is angry at the Brits not wanting to be governed by formidable wonderful EU. The EU will never forgive the Brits for putting their sovereingty over EU demands for centralism. The harder the Brexit, the more it is what the EU wants if it cannot get Britain back into the EU: a punishment that will deter everyone else sympathising with the idea of leaving the block.


And this was the goal of the EU negotiators from all beginning on. One could have seen and known this in advance on the Britiosh island -if only one would have wanted that. If Britain would leave with a successful deal that pleases everybody mor eor less, it wopuld porove that the EU is not needed that much at all and that a life outside the block is possible, thinkable. This demonstration is what has to be prevented AT ALL COSTS.



May has no chance to get what she wants. She never had. Nor would have anyone else in her place. Because Britain wants more sovereignty again - and this sin is unforgivable in the EU's percpetion.



If I were Britain, I would threaten to withdraw from cooperation in security, counter crime, intelligence and military deterrance as well, even would leave NATO. The British distribution to counter terror intelligence is of the most important quantity and quality, and there are only two European military holding a nculear deterrance from which all Europe benefits. Also, additonal intel capacities soon will be needed in the UK - to fight off and counter spionage and sabotage by its European "friends" who without doubt will try as hard as they vcan to destabbilize the political scene and public opnion in order to influence the oubklic in favour of a Brtish pro-Eu course again, bringing the heretic bakc into the family.


An aggressive low tax policy to successfully compete with the EU's highn tax regime and be more attractive for new industry and business, is another option.



Nations have no friends. Nations have interests. Wake up, Britain. Its time to sharpen fangs and claws. The EU is no negotation partner, - IT NEVER WAS. Its an enemy just below the level of warfare and assassinations. And it will play dirty and foul whenever it thinks it gets an advanatge by that.



And worst: the EU will be completely satisfied with itself and thinking of itself as the heroic knight of the holy grail by doing so. Because as we all should know by now: the EU thinks it is on a sacred mission.

The evil dressed in the clothes of the rightous and innocent - thats malice in its most brutal form. But that does not change the fact that the UK played the game in the past 18 months unbelievably naive. High. Time. To. Stop. That.

I am beginning to agree with you on more and more points Sky but my main concern is how divided our government are on the matter.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by STEED

PM May was never any good and by her own actions calling a general election weaken her even further. Yes she won but at a cost forming a coalition with the DUP. And her handling of Brexit has gone from a mess to a dam right joke, result of which her own party is ripping itself apart with all this crap about leadership challenges which so far has been jack squat.


The EU must be laughing its socks off at our weak government.

Until they remember they are soon to be £40 billion short in their kitty.

[Jimbuna]

Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt has urged the EU not to mistake British politeness for weakness after Brexit negotiations reached an impasse.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45611738

Wise words from someone I've never had much time for in the past.

After rejecting the UK's proposals, Donald Tusk, head of the European Council, posted a provocative picture on Instagram featuring UK PM Theresa May "cherry-picking" a cake.

Very classy, obviously this non elected comedian forgets how his country was sliced up like a cake by neighbours either side of his country not all that long ago

Interesting times ahead me thinks.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

my main concern is how divided our government are on the matter.

I would say they are so divided that all sides will not back down. The only thing that seems to keep this mess together is the fact Jezzer and Co are waiting in the wings. And the only way I can judge the mood of the country is watching all election results running up to the general election.

As Brexit stands at the present moment batten down the hatches its going to get ugly next March. As for the EU it will probably throw a party behind closed doors. The EU will think it will go on and grow but the writing is on the wall, question is will the EU collapse like Rome did or will it morph is to something much more darker.

[Jimbuna]

God only knows what the EU will become and if the US withdraw there military protection as they have alluded to recently then I fear it would be Putin who would decide

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

God only knows what the EU will become and if the US withdraw there military protection as they have alluded to recently then I fear it would be Putin who would decide

The only positive thing I can say jim at the moment what ever is going on within the EU the process is slow. Lets hope it remains slow but who can tell what will be in 10 years time give and take.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

God only knows what the EU will become and if the US withdraw there military protection as they have alluded to recently then I fear it would be Putin who would decide

Maybe he will not decide where Europe goes, but Europe would be unable to decide anything against Russia's explicit will. That is why Russia tries with so much determination to influence the American inner plltics and why it confronts Europe in ceetain areas like Syria - to drive a wedge between the US and Europe and get the Us out of Europe. While it has been American policy in the cold war and after WWII and rearming Germany to achieve just one thing: keeping the Russians out of Europe. It seems increasingly likely that this plicy now will fail in the forseeable future. More and ore political circles in EU states openly sympathise with Moscow and try to close ties with it, not just Eastern states, but oppositional parties in the rest of Europe as well. And some states like Greece always have had close ties to Russia anyway, even during the cold war: after all, Greece and Russia share he orthodox Christian belief which is still very influential on both states.


Add to this the growing in-buying of China in Europe, namely Germany, and the growing cooperation between Russia and China. Russia has lost quite some hesitation to deliver the Chinese it slatest military technology, and China is a vivid customer. A cooperation helped and accelerated by Trumpian America. Congrats, duckhead: you are the antidot to the old phrase "divide et impera". We will see how this pays off for the US once their conflict with China in the South Chinese Sea or over Taiwan becomes a hot war.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by STEED

The only positive thing I can say jim at the moment what ever is going on within the EU the process is slow. Lets hope it remains slow but who can tell what will be in 10 years time give and take.

Honestly said, I think we already can see it flying apart already now, just in slow motion so that the action escapes the eye. The only question is whether or not it will/can bring up the needed amount of brutal power and totalitarian self-administration needed to enforce the staying together against the will of people and parties that greow in resistence to it every day, or just collapses. If the first, it will become dark times indeed. If the latter, it will become risky and confused times. The first scenario I fear. The latter scenario I must accept to risk. I see no realistic alternatives anymore. And there is no guarantee for anything positive coming next.



In the end, Europe already is deep in the descending phase of its historical-cultural up-and-down cycle that lasted for roughly two thousand years. And now its coming to an end while other influences and powers rise. As long as nature plays ball and lets mankind live. But the era of European global dominance in culture, economy, values, military, philosophy is dying.

[skidman]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Very classy, obviously this non elected comedian forgets how his country was sliced up like a cake by neighbours either side of his country not all that long ago

President Tusk was elected by the European Council on August 30th 2014. His country, the 3rd Polish republic, was never sliced by anybody. You are welcome.