[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled Update BH

[Revus]

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

Wouldn't a friendly port have maps?

It could help.
I was just about to turn out of the bay and saw mines to starboard and thought, "wow, very cool. Its a good thing this place is protected." Then I looked behind me with bino's and saw others...

Went to free view (usually used just for screenshots) and I saw what I had just sailed through! Dont know how I did it, but I missed countless mines haha.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Revus

It could help.
I was just about to turn out of the bay and saw mines to starboard and thought, "wow, very cool. Its a good thing this place is protected." Then I looked behind me with bino's and saw others...

Went to free view (usually used just for screenshots) and I saw what I had just sailed through! Dont know how I did it, but I missed countless mines haha.

Yeah.... remember, thinking that same thoughts (your high lit section of what you said there... ) the number of times... I blithely sailed through the channel there, in SH3... until I took a gander once, using free cam view... & got the shock of My life... sailing right past a mine... & those were the ones I noted, at 1st... seen from the surface... NOT counting, the untold ones that I sailed past & over... as well... all the while, blasting through the area, hopped up on high TC... numerous times.









M. M.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

Wouldn't a friendly port have maps?

Probably, but then again defensive minefields were classified information and may not have risked sending ships deep into enemy waters with such materials, one of the reasons ports often had escorts when leaving/arriving and would often pick up a pilot as well. In current version, best bet for a map is go to the mission editor, open data/campaigns/campaign/US Minefields and take a look.

In the soon to be released V 2.0, there will be escort vessels for when arriving/departing ports, player can follow through the minefield gap. Minefield gaps at friendly ports will be labeled on the map for orientation purposes but will advise to follow escort through.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Revus

It could help.
I was just about to turn out of the bay and saw mines to starboard and thought, "wow, very cool. Its a good thing this place is protected." Then I looked behind me with bino's and saw others...

Went to free view (usually used just for screenshots) and I saw what I had just sailed through! Dont know how I did it, but I missed countless mines haha.

Lol definitely got lucky. Since the minefields at most friendly ports are overall for show/immersion purposes, they are not as dense as should. This was done to lessen chances of CTD when running TC near port since large minefields can be problematic in that sense. With less density, its possible with luck, smaller vessels like a sub can ride through without hitting one, a lot of lucky involved though unless you have spotted them and are able to navigate. Remember, if ever caught in enemy minefield in same situation (can happen) can use deck and AA guns to blow them up. 20 MM and 40 MM handle them well. They make quite the explosion, just make sure are not too close when you gun them.

In testing I watched a DD wonder into the Darwin minefield lol kept barely missing mines, then hit one finally.

[Captain Wreckless]

Had a really good patrol in the Nautilus with over 26K sunk, all for naught when I ran out of fuel 39nm short of Midway.

Had it all planned out to where I still had about 5% fuel left. But those pesky IJN seaplanes would not leave me alone. I thought I was safe from them being in the middle of nowhere, but no! I had to crash dive 3 times and use up my fuel staying submerged.


Bummer.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

Had a really good patrol in the Nautilus with over 26K sunk, all for naught when I ran out of fuel 39nm short of Midway.

Had it all planned out to where I still had about 5% fuel left. But those pesky IJN seaplanes would not leave me alone. I thought I was safe from them being in the middle of nowhere, but no! I had to crash dive 3 times and use up my fuel staying submerged.


Bummer.

Ouchh. Hopefully you saved after leaving patrol area (if not, always should) and can reload, try different route/speeds. If I recall, I typically cruised around in Narwhal at about 8.5 -9 knts when conserving fuel.


I assume when you say middle of nowhere, where en route Midway North of Wake and Marcus? Wake Island and Marcus Island have airbases most of the war, so the large flying boats and G4M(BETTY) provide pretty decent coverage between the two bases. Key is to not be detected, if they do not detect you, prob have to dive briefly twice per day, sometimes less, if they detect you, well they will hound you based on course and speed when made contact. Best is to take a completely opposite course for at least 24 hours undetected, sometimes more. Of course, when watching fuel, can be difficult.

By mid 1944 the airbases are inactive so rare to get contact. This was done to represent the isolation of these islands by submarines and they were routinely bombed by carrier air strikes (used as practice for new air groups/carriers) and quite a few B-24 strikes from Marshalls, Midway, and later Mariana Islands as well. Basically, airfields became untenable at that point.

With Donation Narwhal, have to watch fuel closely ( I assume using the donation Narwhal?) , as you found out, she does not have the sea legs the other boats do. Other boats have more fuel simulating the real life modification used by fleet boats, where a large ballast tank was converted to fuel tank, this fuel was consumed en route to area, then flushed out after a few dives, converted back to ballast tank by the time reached patrol area.

This modification was implemented by TMO creator Ducimus, to replace the "Special Ability" which provided extra fuel. Honestly, one of my favorite modifications made in SH 4. I used to get pretty annoyed when read reports/memoirs by skippers , fleet boats cruising at 15.5-16 knots (Ahead Standard) to and from areas, having plenty of fuel to patrol for 20-30 days and return, but in the sim you'd burn fuel up very quickly. Nice in most cases to not have to cruise around pacific at harbor speed lol.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Ouchh. Hopefully you saved after leaving patrol area (if not, always should) and can reload, try different route/speeds. If I recall, I typically cruised around in Narwhal at about 8.5 -9 knts when conserving fuel.


I assume when you say middle of nowhere, where en route Midway North of Wake and Marcus? Wake Island and Marcus Island have airbases most of the war, so the large flying boats and G4M(BETTY) provide pretty decent coverage between the two bases. Key is to not be detected, if they do not detect you, prob have to dive briefly twice per day, sometimes less, if they detect you, well they will hound you based on course and speed when made contact. Best is to take a completely opposite course for at least 24 hours undetected, sometimes more. Of course, when watching fuel, can be difficult.

By mid 1944 the airbases are inactive so rare to get contact. This was done to represent the isolation of these islands by submarines and they were routinely bombed by carrier air strikes (used as practice for new air groups/carriers) and quite a few B-24 strikes from Marshalls, Midway, and later Mariana Islands as well. Basically, airfields became untenable at that point.

With Donation Narwhal, have to watch fuel closely ( I assume using the donation Narwhal?) , as you found out, she does not have the sea legs the other boats do. Other boats have more fuel simulating the real life modification used by fleet boats, where a large ballast tank was converted to fuel tank, this fuel was consumed en route to area, then flushed out after a few dives, converted back to ballast tank by the time reached patrol area.

This modification was implemented by TMO creator Ducimus, to replace the "Special Ability" which provided extra fuel. Honestly, one of my favorite modifications made in SH 4. I used to get pretty annoyed when read reports/memoirs by skippers , fleet boats cruising at 15.5-16 knots (Ahead Standard) to and from areas, having plenty of fuel to patrol for 20-30 days and return, but in the sim you'd burn fuel up very quickly. Nice in most cases to not have to cruise around pacific at harbor speed lol.

jumping in here....
when i started playing SH4 i encountered this fuel issue at the very start. when i learned about the Specials and how to use them, i made the leap to using them as a compensatory method of off-setting the Ubi design and programming.

i use the fuel consumption, battery consumption, and dive speed specials all of the time. i have them tuned to my satisfaction.

[Captain Wreckless]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Ouchh. Hopefully you saved after leaving patrol area (if not, always should) and can reload, try different route/speeds. If I recall, I typically cruised around in Narwhal at about 8.5 -9 knts when conserving fuel.


I assume when you say middle of nowhere, where en route Midway North of Wake and Marcus? Wake Island and Marcus Island have airbases most of the war, so the large flying boats and G4M(BETTY) provide pretty decent coverage between the two bases. Key is to not be detected, if they do not detect you, prob have to dive briefly twice per day, sometimes less, if they detect you, well they will hound you based on course and speed when made contact. Best is to take a completely opposite course for at least 24 hours undetected, sometimes more. Of course, when watching fuel, can be difficult.

By mid 1944 the airbases are inactive so rare to get contact. This was done to represent the isolation of these islands by submarines and they were routinely bombed by carrier air strikes (used as practice for new air groups/carriers) and quite a few B-24 strikes from Marshalls, Midway, and later Mariana Islands as well. Basically, airfields became untenable at that point.

With Donation Narwhal, have to watch fuel closely ( I assume using the donation Narwhal?) , as you found out, she does not have the sea legs the other boats do. Other boats have more fuel simulating the real life modification used by fleet boats, where a large ballast tank was converted to fuel tank, this fuel was consumed en route to area, then flushed out after a few dives, converted back to ballast tank by the time reached patrol area.

This modification was implemented by TMO creator Ducimus, to replace the "Special Ability" which provided extra fuel. Honestly, one of my favorite modifications made in SH 4. I used to get pretty annoyed when read reports/memoirs by skippers , fleet boats cruising at 15.5-16 knots (Ahead Standard) to and from areas, having plenty of fuel to patrol for 20-30 days and return, but in the sim you'd burn fuel up very quickly. Nice in most cases to not have to cruise around pacific at harbor speed lol.

Yeah, S of Iwo Jima, N of Marcus to Midway. Using the Donation Narwhal Mod. I read also of subs going to patrol area at Standard speed and then patrol at 1/3 or 2/3 speed which is what I do. With the Narwhal I patrolled at 5kts instead of 1/3 which is 7kts.

I'll load up a save and see if I can make it this time.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

Yeah, S of Iwo Jima, N of Marcus to Midway. Using the Donation Narwhal Mod. I read also of subs going to patrol area at Standard speed and then patrol at 1/3 or 2/3 speed which is what I do. With the Narwhal I patrolled at 5kts instead of 1/3 which is 7kts.

I'll load up a save and see if I can make it this time.

lol yes, standard speed in the donation Narwhal is too fast for transit , will burn up speed. Fine for most fleetboats, sometimes have to adjust speed a little due to distance of patrol area i.e. ring up standard speed then use the "knot meter" to set it to 14 knots instead of 15 knots. Still standard speed but that one knot will get a lot of extra mileage. Narhwal is its own beast, being one of the older boats.

Are you using the "Max Range at current speed" tool on the nav tools bar?

This will easily help you find the ideal speed/range balance for patrols. Just plot out your course and once at desired speed click on the button will display you may range at current speed. Sometimes, going too slow will actually burn more fuel and decrease range.

Also, with the frequent dives, make sure when surface to turn off your batteries, as recharging after every short dive will burn more fuel. Batteries automatically charge as you likely are aware.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

jumping in here....
when i started playing SH4 i encountered this fuel issue at the very start. when i learned about the Specials and how to use them, i made the leap to using them as a compensatory method of off-setting the Ubi design and programming.

i use the fuel consumption, battery consumption, and dive speed specials all of the time. i have them tuned to my satisfaction.

Yea, the fuel usage was a pain and top top it off they did not include the navigator feature, so had not range estimates, luckily the community changed that oversight.

Eh special abilities drive me nuts lol. I have nearly eliminated them from TMO in next update. Two exceptions being the Dive assist, because well drilled crew could dive in 40 seconds or less , some cases 35 seconds. Other is the ahead emergency, because in a emergency could bypass procedures , overload engines and sub could make 22-23 knots on surface (BARB for instance Jan 1945) The TMO "Battery" fix, do not consider it a special ability, its to fix the ridiculously long battery recharge bug.

I am debating on removing the engineer ability. Bit gamey he can repair anything, but his ability to make pumps operate in a more realistic manner is nice, testing something soon to see if can have one without the other, hopefully will work.

[Captain Wreckless]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

lol yes, standard speed in the donation Narwhal is too fast for transit , will burn up speed. Fine for most fleetboats, sometimes have to adjust speed a little due to distance of patrol area i.e. ring up standard speed then use the "knot meter" to set it to 14 knots instead of 15 knots. Still standard speed but that one knot will get a lot of extra mileage. Narhwal is its own beast, being one of the older boats.

Are you using the "Max Range at current speed" tool on the nav tools bar?

This will easily help you find the ideal speed/range balance for patrols. Just plot out your course and once at desired speed click on the button will display you may range at current speed. Sometimes, going too slow will actually burn more fuel and decrease range.

Also, with the frequent dives, make sure when surface to turn off your batteries, as recharging after every short dive will burn more fuel. Batteries automatically charge as you likely are aware.

I believe Standard speed is 14kt, 2/3 is 10kt, and 1/3 is 7kt. I usually patrol at 5kt.

I use "Max Range at current speed" all of the time. That's how I knew I had enough juice to get to Midway. IJN patrols screwed it for me. I noticed going super slow decreased to range. Go figure.

I actually forgot about turning off the battery recharge until past Marcus.

I reloaded a save and I am about 3610nm for Midway and if I travel at 7kts I have about 4500+ range. We'll see if I make it this time.

[Captain Wreckless]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Yea, the fuel usage was a pain and top top it off they did not include the navigator feature, so had not range estimates, luckily the community changed that oversight.

Eh special abilities drive me nuts lol. I have nearly eliminated them from TMO in next update. Two exceptions being the Dive assist, because well drilled crew could dive in 40 seconds or less , some cases 35 seconds. Other is the ahead emergency, because in a emergency could bypass procedures , overload engines and sub could make 22-23 knots on surface (BARB for instance Jan 1945) The TMO "Battery" fix, do not consider it a special ability, its to fix the ridiculously long battery recharge bug.

I am debating on removing the engineer ability. Bit gamey he can repair anything, but his ability to make pumps operate in a more realistic manner is nice, testing something soon to see if can have one without the other, hopefully will work.

NOOOOO! I use the special abilities if they are available. I currently have "Battery Recharge Fix", "Engine Expert", and "Master Engineer". If I had the "Medic" or "Torpedo Expert" available I would use them.


If you plan on eliminating them, how about a mod to use them if you want.

[Captain Wreckless]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

i use the fuel consumption, battery consumption, and dive speed specials all of the time. i have them tuned to my satisfaction.

Did you modify them somehow?

[Captain Wreckless]

Made it to Midway with 8% fuel left doing 8kt. Had to crash dive 3 times 'cuz of those pesky seaplanes.

My 1st reload I had to do a do over. I was 400nm west of Iwo Jima when lookouts spotted aircraft dead ahead. Ordered Crash Dive, no sooner had I ordered hard to port, bullets started ricocheting of the hull. There were 2 Zekes coming right at me. #1 put a bomb right at the base of the conning tower and #2 close by. That pretty much did me in.

There must have been a CV somewhere close.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

NOOOOO! I use the special abilities if they are available. I currently have "Battery Recharge Fix", "Engine Expert", and "Master Engineer". If I had the "Medic" or "Torpedo Expert" available I would use them.


If you plan on eliminating them, how about a mod to use them if you want.

Battery Recharge Fix will remain of course ..

I'll see about including a mod to keep them if want to use them, kind of depends on how many changes have to make and effects it has on other features. Things are often intertwined, so may not work.

One issue with the "Engine Expert" ability is I've changed the boats some, to have more realistic acceleration/deceleration times, turning radius, (boats are a little too agile) and dive times. A Gato can now dive when hit the D key at flank speed from surface to periscope depth in 35-40 seconds, which is historically accurate, but before was only possible with the special ability. When I had the engine expert on board while testing new changes, boat will dive in 15-20 seconds lol which is uh not possible for a Gato , Balao, etc. Basically, with my changes the need for the engines expert is not there his is how UBI should have done it, but they were uh lazy and just went the route of special abilities.

I am almost finished with this portion of mod, just trying to get few settings correct for fuel usage, hopefully will make it into the release, if not, will have to be patched. Very tedious, time consuming process to get it right.


Torpedo expert will be eliminated. Crew abilities really had no bearing on torpedo performance related to magnetic and duds, they were manufacturing/design issues inherent in torpedo. I've found this ability reduces the malfunction rate for too much, esp after loading a saved game.

Medic- I plan to assign the ability to a enlisted man and rename ability as "Pharmacists Mate" , as it is amore appropriate than "medic" for the Navy and the crew member having ability being a officer. All changes work well, will remain.


Chief Engineer, like I said it depends. If can eliminate ability to fix everything, but retain the pump speed (which believe can be done as I found in the files settings, havent tested yet though) will keep him, if not, he will go. With the revised (and further revised) damage model , the ability is really not needed and seems to interfere with things Some more testing to do before am sure though.


Gunnery Special Ability is definitely going, as well as the "Theoretician" .