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11-10-19, 04:52 PM | #8041 |
Fleet Admiral
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I guess you mean the famous Iran-Contra affair I do remember some of it, some from Swedish and Danish news program or documentaries during and after I do not remember it in detail-mostly because I was a young lad and had some other interest. Markus |
11-10-19, 06:30 PM | #8042 | |
Rear Admiral
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Only one difference between the two that Im aware of. One has only been accused of abuse of power and Quid Pro Quo. The other openly admitted to it when he was caught on tape bragging about. But yes you are correct, in that both of these braggarts cases ought to be looked into. And the public needs to start holding the elected accountable instead of playing the part of party lap dog defending party talking points.
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Extradite Deez Nutz in your mouth Commissioner Mark Rowley you fascist pig. Make 1984 fiction again. Last edited by Rockstar; 11-10-19 at 06:39 PM. |
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11-10-19, 08:51 PM | #8043 | |
Navy Seal
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Quote:
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pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau .. |
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11-11-19, 07:56 AM | #8044 | ||||
Navy Seal
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Before I start, I would like to address something posted by Mr. Quatro: Yes, it does seem there was a bit of a Freudian Slip in regards to the use of the name "Trump" and/or "Don Jr." in #1, #2, #3,#4, #5, and #6... ...and yes, I concur, Rockstar does seem to have difficulty with facts... Well, I would say#6 qualifies as Joe Biden doing the job he was assigned to do, on behalf of US Foreign Policy, in conjunction with US Allies and international monetary entities, and that job was to pressure the Ukrainian government to get rid of a do-nothing, obstructionist, prosecutor who was refusing to act on legitimate reports and concerns of those Biden was asked to represent; he acted under the laws of the US, in a manner consistent with then US Foreign Policy and was not actively or overtly seeking personal gain; you'll probably bring up that tired old, thoroughly debunked whine of "Biden did it ti stop an investigation of his son, hunter and Burisma!"; yet, there is no so;ind evidence, of any kind that either or both Hunter Biden or Burisma were under active investigation; in fact, the Ukraine government, current prosecutors, Ukrainian anti-corruption watchdog groups, among others have flatly stated there were no active investigations of Biden/Burisma at all and the last known open investigation into Burisma occurred in 2006, eight (8) years before Biden became a board member; "here's the" gist "of the matter let" me "make it easy for you" ( I only put quotes around the non-error portions of your sentence; don't want to be accused of misquoting you : 1. There was NO ongoing investigation of Biden/Burisma at the time Shokin was pushed out by the US, its allies and international financial entities 2. Shokin was under fire both internally in the Ukraine and externally by the EU, various other concerned nations, the IMF, and other monetary entities for NOT actively pursing corruption within the Ukraine 3. It would be and is impossible for Joe Biden to have a motive of trying to stop an investigation into Hunter Biden explicitly because there was no on-going Ukrainian investigation at the time of Shokin's ouster, which was part of the reason Shokin was fired 4. Since there was NO investigation to stop and neither Biden would have financially (noting that Hunter was being paid a legitimate compensation for sitting on Burisma's Board of Directors) or politically benefited from Shokin's ouster, the argument of personal gain is moot, unless you can prove otherwise with verifiable facts 5. The argument of the Bidens seeking the ouster of Shokin to block any investigation(s) into Hunter's activities by ousting Shokin defies logic: in ousting a corrupt, ineffectual prosecutor like Shokin, logic says the Ukraine government, in order to comply with the demands of the US/allied nations/international monetary entities, would be required to get an aggressive, proactive, ethical, and honest prosecutor to take Shokin's place and that being the case, the probability of such an honest, dutiful prosecutor launching an investigation into possible corrupt activities of Burisma/Hunter is very substantially increased, not diminished, and illogical on the face of it ...and, yes, you do seem to be missing quite a lot... Now let me dig into what you call my "treasure trove of study, law and facts"... Let's start with the Shokin sworn affidavit you are constantly waving about as gospel truth. Aside from the fact Shokin has a well documented past of corruption, deceit, and criminality and any attorney would drool at the chance to take apart an affidavit from such a sort of 'witness' (perjury, sweet perjury), let's look into why Shokin gave that affidavit. There s currently a trial in Austria for a Ukrainian oligarch by the name of Dmitry Firtash. Firtash fled the Ukraine to avoid charges once the former pre-Russian was ousted and a new pro-Western government was installed. Firtash was/is very closely allied with Vladimir Putin and has been accused in the Ukriane of various corruption charges; he fled the Ukraine and settled in Austria, a big mistake on his part because he is also wanted here in the US on various charges including money laundering, among other felonies; the US has an extradition treaty with Austria and has requested Firtash be extradited to the US for prosecution and Firtash is fighting the request iin Austrian courts. The affidavit you wave about so much was given as a'witness statement by Shokin in support of Firtash's fight to avoid extradition, a seeming odd thing for someone the Trump minions and Trumpettes have bee trying to foist off as a maligned anti-corruption crusader to do and be involved in; to actively be in the defense of someone the US and his own native country of the Ukraine are seeking to prosecute for corruption and other felonies belies and dissolves any pretense or claim Shokin is anything but as corrupt as those he refused to prosecute. Here's a background article on the Firtash/Shokin connection, containg a goodly number of cites and is a good read: Viktor Shokin Affidavit Mentions Joe Biden, Dmytro Firtash -- https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/vikto...fidavit-biden/ Quote:
So, if you really want to use the the affidavit of a proven corrupt and deceitful person used in the defense of another corrupt and deceitful person who is trying to avoid answering for his own crimes as a foundation for your arguments and claims, well, good luck with that... Regarding the genesis of the whole faux story Trump, his minions, and Trumpettes have been feverishly trying to foist, here's an article written by the reporter who first broke the story and how he feels it has been hijacked by the Trumpers: I Wrote About the Bidens and Ukraine Years Ago. Then the Right-Wing Spin Machine Turned the Story Upside Down -- https://theintercept.com/2019/09/25/...y-upside-down/ The above article's author, James Risen, makes note of, and prvides a cite link to, the following article which further details the misrepresentations and lies a very desperate Trump and his followers have engaged in: A Republican Conspiracy Theory About a Biden-in-Ukraine Scandal Has Gone Mainstream. But It Is Not True -- https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/...reformer-says/ A couple of last bits of actual facts. First, the minioms and Trumpettes have been trying to make it seem that Hunter Biden was being paid an exorbitant wad of cash for sitting on Burisma's Board of Directors, insinuating the compensation was a sort of massive bribe. Biden was on the board about five years and, truth be told, no one has been able to accurately ascertain how much compensation Biden received from Burisma; the Trumpers wail out a figure of some $3,000,000, which works out to about $600,000/year and $50,000/month. However, that figure is not accurate; this artice, by a fact-checking site, details what is known of the Biden/Burisma compensation arrangements: FACT CHECK: Was Hunter Biden Paid As Much As $50,000 A Month For His Work With Burisma? -- https://checkyourfact.com/2019/10/17...isma-payments/ It would seem no one really knows what Biden was paid. What is known is Biden was on the really low-end of the scale when it comes to corporate board member compensation: How Much Board of Directors Members Get Paid and What They Do -- https://www.investopedia.com/article...boards-pay.asp Quote:
Lastly, it seems the new Ukrainian government, and its new anti-corruption prosecutors, have no plans to make an investigation into Hunter Biden and his tenure with Burisma since the allegations of corruption against Burisma are for activities that occurred years bfore Biden joined Burisma; there is also the fact that the Ukraine is a sovereign nation and their prosecutors act on information and evidence they themselves uncover and on internal complaints; they do not act on speculative commentsallegations from foreign sources unless there is accompanying compelling evidence: Ukraine agency says allegations against Burisma cover period before Biden joined -- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1WC1LV Quote:
Laws and facts are very, very important: they form part of the basis of a civilized and well-governed society. The greatest damage is done when the law and facts, also known as truth, are distorted, violated, ignored, and corrupted by those who disregard hard facts and have sworn, under oath, to "preserve, protect and defend" the laws and the Constitution... I know this post is rather long and I do apologize to the other members if they find this tedious, but I'm just trying to give as much evidence as possible to back up my arguments and statement. I wish I could do one of those 'drive-by' posts where a comment is made, presented as being truth , without anything to act as back-up or verification, or regurgitate some slogan or trite bit heard on some media source, but I guess I just don't have that shallowness in me; again, I apologize... @mapuc: Your questions a very welcomed and have been very interesting. I have enjoyed seeing our nation and its goings-on through your eyes. If I may suggest: scientists have a practice of asking probing questions, and when they get an answer, they don't just accept the first answer as being THE ANSWER, instead they question the answer they have found and rigorously research and further test its basis in fact and veracity. I know there is a bit of a language difficulty (which you seem to be handling rather well) and a bit of a cultural difference when it comes to understanding the myriad way we Americans seem to complicate our lives, but I ask that you continue to question the answers you get from us and seek out the facts and the truth; not all answers are a final answer, my answers included... Keep asking questions... <O>
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11-11-19, 11:11 AM | #8045 | |
Navy Seal
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Quote:
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pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau .. |
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11-11-19, 01:41 PM | #8046 |
Rear Admiral
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Last time for me.
Biden had boasted publicly about strong-arming the Ukrainian government into firing the prosecutor by threatening to withhold $1 billion in aid. And of course there's Shokin's sworn affidavit essentially confirming Biden's claim. But I know, Shokin bad, Biden good. Also, I think this may shed a little light how the timeline everyone is raving about to explain away allegations against the Bidens doesn't really mean jack squat. https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/29...ore-questions/ In other news: Broadcast, cable news networks to preempt regular programming for Trump impeachment coverage. Seems like a good time to go back country camping.
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Extradite Deez Nutz in your mouth Commissioner Mark Rowley you fascist pig. Make 1984 fiction again. Last edited by Rockstar; 11-11-19 at 01:50 PM. |
11-11-19, 01:56 PM | #8047 |
Lucky Jack
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So what? This was a recorded event, not some candid secret footage. Did he break any laws or something that would make this in any way comparable to what Trump, allegedly, did?
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11-11-19, 04:52 PM | #8048 |
Old enough to know better
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I'm not sure that anyone is accusing the Bidens of anything illegal. The question is are there things that the VP of the US and his family can do that are improper and unwise? The answer is of course yes they can. Joe Biden must have known for a long time that some day he would try again to be President. A prudent person would not have let any of his immeadiate family any where near the Ukraine or a company like Burisma. It shows a lack of awareness not befitting that high an office. It remains to be seen as to whether he will pay a price for it.
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“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” ― Arthur C. Clarke |
11-11-19, 06:09 PM | #8049 |
Ocean Warrior
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-...d=hp_lead_pos3
This may be of interest.
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Grumpy as always. |
11-11-19, 06:15 PM | #8050 |
Fleet Admiral
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Sorry if I have missed it...trying to follow as closely as I can what you wright
(even those fine words from vienna) Some(can't remember if it was the Rep) wanted this whistle blower to take stand and witness in this public hearing and this has, what I understand, been turned down. It's understandable It could put this person life at stake. It also made me remember what we have here in Denmark and Sweden Protected witness hearing(try to remember the exact Danish or Swedish word for it, so I can translate it into English) Couldn't they not do something similar in your case ? Having this whistle blower in a separate room where s/he are sitting in front of a microphone and beside him there are some lawyer and some third trusted person. Thereby this Hearing will have a live witness by this whistle blower and no one will know who it is. Edit Have an additional question and it's related to this thread https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...71#post2636171 Which I don't want to destroy by my military question. When did this respect for your military change ? reason for my question is simple. In the 80's and in the 90's I saw documentary on Danish and Swedish TV...about Vietnam war and how your soldiers who came home was spit on or treated like trash. and now the last 10-20 years I have notice this huge respect for your veterans and other military staff. Markus Last edited by mapuc; 11-11-19 at 06:36 PM. |
11-11-19, 07:32 PM | #8051 | |
Wayfaring Stranger
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Everybody already knows who the whistleblower is. His name is Eric Ciaramella and the only way his life is in danger is if he has incriminating evidence on the Clintons. https://thefederalist.com/2019/11/10...wer-last-week/
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Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see. |
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11-11-19, 07:47 PM | #8052 | |
Ocean Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,461
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Psst, I've heard that he has some.
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em2nought is weird |
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11-11-19, 07:58 PM | #8053 |
Navy Seal
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__________________
pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau .. |
11-11-19, 08:24 PM | #8054 | |
Navy Seal
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Some of the options to protect the Whistleblower you mentioned have been floated by various entities and person, such as having the person testify from a secure room or other remote location via closed-circuit, secure broadcast. The problem has been there is no consensus on any one particular solution. Actually, at this point, the need to have the Whistleblower testify is practically a moot point since there has been a preponderate of evidence and testimonies that have backed up virtually all of the major issues raised by the Whistleblower's original complaint. The upcoming pubic hearings later this week will, no doubt, either make a case for having the person testify or obviate the need... This link gives the guideline for whistleblower protection and requirements from the Office of Personnel Managemant; the same general guidelines, requirements, responsibilities, and rights are in general use throughout the US Government, so this gives you a typical set of rules: Our Inspector General - Whistleblower Protection Information -- https://www.opm.gov/our-inspector-ge...n-information/ It should be noted these protections not only apply to direct US Government employees, but, also, to employees of contractor perfoming work for the Government... There was an article published in the New York Times about the backstory of Joe Biden's activities regarding the Ukraine and the ouster of Shokin; it is an interesting read; I have provided this link to a reprint of the article on another site because the NYT site very often blocks a large number of viewers: What Joe Biden actually did in Ukraine -- https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/72000925.cms <O>
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11-11-19, 09:05 PM | #8055 |
Ocean Warrior
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Is this whistleblower being slapped with the Espionage act?
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Grumpy as always. |
Tags |
biden, clinton, election, harris, obama, politics, trump, twitter |
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