NYGM or Grey Wolves? Sell me people.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Moderators please lock this thread. It has no useful purpose or outcome.

[enaceo]

Indeed.People should stop making threads like this (which mode NYGM or GW) because in the end it is all about PERSONAL PREFERENCES.

[CWorth]

Originally Posted by enaceo

Indeed.People should stop making threads like this (which mode NYGM or GW) because in the end it is all about PERSONAL PREFERENCES.

Which is exactly the point that many others and myself have been trying to get across in every other one of the threads that keep popping up with the "which is better NYGM or GW" topic.

This topic has been discussed to death already in numerous other threads that can be looked up.Yet it keeps popping up over and over again.REALISM IS UP TO THE PLAYER AS TO WHAT THEY FEEL IS REALISTIC AND THEIR INTERPRETATION OF REALISM.

This is why I cant stand the terms "realistic" and "realism" being used as they are way to open to interpretation and debate.To use the term "Historically Accurate" lowers the ability to argue..as you cannot argue cold hard facts if you can backup your claims with evidence.Sure there will still be some variations of the same data that will be up to interpretation but far less than simply saying I am making it realistic and having no evedence to backup your settings.Saying I am making it realistic opens up the debate because your settings will be your interpretation of what you feel is realistic and not someone else's idea of realism.Hence the debate and arguments over the mod start.

Just to give an example of how my term would work.And I hope I make some sense with this and some can see where I am coming from in my idea.

Take the RUB mod.Beery claimed it to be for die hard realism fans.His work was his interpretation of what he thought was realistic.The mod was great for a tougher game and was to a degree more "realistic" compared to the stock game.But as was debated numerous times in threads that started about some of the settings like the deck gun and other things.Many showed historical evidence that showed his settings to be historically incorrect.Yet he chose to not use them and continued with his own interpretation.

So here is where the terms realistic and histrically accurate come in to play.RUB was a "realism" mod in a sense that it was made based on the makers interpretation of realism.It however was NOT a "historically accurate" mod as evidence that people posted proved many settings he used were not historically correct.

As someone stated right after my post about the terms..both NYGM and GW teams are going for historical accuracy with their repective mods.Which is why I said that maybe they could use the term "A historically correct mod" instead of calling it a "realism mod".This way they are not as open for debates on realism.

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Magua your above statement is simply trolling and baiting. It has no basis in a "realism debate"... which in truth are really flame wars waiting to happen. Feel free to count every rivet you please. It is easy to take for free and then criticize. Instigate somewhere else.

I am sure you have the intellect to turn anything we say back on us. So we will give you the field to yell about whatever you like.

You haven't been here creating ANYTHING with anyone for any time at all. You are not qualified to judge the works of anyone here based on the difficulties all have overcome.

You are clueless and completely insensitive to the countless hours of work freely given by so many good members of this community to build GW or any mod for that matter... and continue to build it/them now.

Constructive criticism is welcome... trolling is just trolling.

You don't seem to welcome any Criticism at all. I give my reasons for not liking Single Ship Contacts and you respond by attacking me. Instead of defending your position you say I am "Trolling"......

[joea]

[Boris]

Maybe we should respect Magua's opinion...

Should we distrust the man because his manners are not our manners, and that his skin is dark?

:rotfl:

[joea]

Originally Posted by Boris

Maybe we should respect Magua's opinion...

Should we distrust the man because his manners are not our manners, and that his skin is dark?

:rotfl:

What are you babbling about, no one said anything about Magua's colour. I don't even know, NOR do I care what it is or where he is from. Also, there is another argument between two other people at the same time here.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by joea

What are you babbling about, no one said anything about Magua's colour. I don't even know, NOR do I care what it is or where he is from. Also, there is another argument between two other people at the same time here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magua

And I only know because I just spoke to Boris and asked him! :rotfl:

[FinnN]

Originally Posted by CWorth

Which is exactly the point that many others and myself have been trying to get across in every other one of the threads that keep popping up with the "which is better NYGM or GW" topic.

...

I understand where you're coming from and (and based on this thread!) why but for someone like me a thread like this could actually really useful - well in theory anyway! I've just reinstalled SHIII after a big gap and having these supermods makes for an easy way to get everything up-to-date. The downside is that because I don't know the individual mods making up the different packs there's no easy way for me to judge what's having what effect on the game. Also as both are so big it isn't really that practical for me to systematically run through each mod to compare what's going on...so a side-by-side comparison is just what I'd love!

Sadly all the comparisons I've come across consist of really subjective comments about realism, when I'd be more interested in a detailed description of (for example) how each mod alters the damage model or shipping distributions, AI, etc, etc, etc... From there I could have a look and make a judgement for myself what seems to be the more realistic, immersive or most enjoyable. For now I've plumped for GW because I understand the changes it's made a little better, but I'd love to see a summary of what each mod does and how they differ.

Have fun
Finn

[Spaxspore]

ive tired GW, i liked it however, once am used to the stock naviagtion chart IE colors, tails,etc. its hard for me to switch to something else once i get comfortable on how certain things looks and feel. IF they allow you to use the orginal unmodded naviagation/TDC screen then ill play it. UNtil then am playing Uboat ACE mod.Its such a same cause it looks soo kewl.

[enaceo]

Finn has a point there.But from the start this thread was "doomed" to put it this way.That phrase..."sell me " was not such a good ideea.That would automatically lead to subjective comments on mods and flame-wars which don't help with anything and you don't get your question answered.If you check the website/sticky of each mod ,you will see tech info there.Also,if you don't really get what the mod is about from those threads/websites,you can download a readme or manual and "study up".

Originally Posted by JScones

How about "Does reading 'countless U-Boat Commander Autobiographies, Biographies, Logs, Interregation Reports, and General Histories' make one person the most authoritive on the subject to the degree of dismissing anyone else's viewpoint?"

Magua obviously isn't interested in anyone else's viewpoint. I suspect he'd even doubt the word of Topp or Kretchmer themselves (unless of course, it was written in some biography)!

JScones is quick to make rude statements but offers no intelligent counter viewpoint.

And what is your viewpoint? What is your opinion on single ship contacts appearing on the Navigation Map miles out of visual range? All I see are attacks on my opinion, but no one able to offer another view or facts. And not just "what might happen", "what happened once", or "what could happen". Back up your attacks on my opinions with facts. Do you have any?

The original point of this topic was the "Sell Me" statement from the original poster. All I've done is play the role of a salesman.

[Ducimus]

What is the airspeed velocity of an unlaiden swallow?



Oh ya... almost forgot, for those who don't quite understand how their actions are causing adverse reactions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiting_(Internet)

Originally Posted by JScones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magua

And I only know because I just spoke to Boris and asked him! :rotfl:

Not that it matters, but if you must know:

White, American, 39yrs old, Veteran. Live, work, and play in Chicago, Illinois

African or European?

Originally Posted by Magua

And what is your viewpoint? What is your opinion on single ship contacts appearing on the Navigation Map miles out of visual range? All I see are attacks on my opinion, but no one able to offer another view or facts. And not just "what might happen", "what happened once", or "what could happen". Back up your attacks on my opinions with facts. Do you have any?

Single ship contacts are based on the fact that occassionally BdU would intercept radio messages from ships, triangulate their position and send it to nearby u-boats. Is that fact enough?

Their 'attacks' on you had nothing to do with single ship contacts, but rather your flat statement that NYGM is "...close to as possible what a real U-Boat Commander had to face..." and GW is "...fun and pretty...", implying that the latter is that and nothing else. Their 'attacks' were in response to what was nothing less than a flat-out insult.

You may think they overreacted. I think you owe them an apology.

But that's just my opinion and not based on any facts.