No long range missiles for USN

LoBlo · 06-02-06, 10:06 PM

Hey what gives...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ons/aim-54.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalSecurity

After 30 years of highly accomplished service, the U.S. Navy retired its first long-range air-to-air missile, the AIM-54 Phoenix, 30 September 2004. One of the world's most technologically advanced tactical missiles, the AIM-54 Phoenix was the first operational radar-guided air-to-air missile that could be launched in multiple numbers against different targets from an aircraft, making the Phoenix the Navy's main fleet air defense long-range weapon.

Problem is... when the Phoenix missile was retired the USN lost its only long range Air-to-Air Missile. It was originally supposed to be succeed by a new long range missile here:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...tions/aaam.htm
but that program was cancelled...

...So it seems like the USN has ended production of its only long range AA missile without a replacement...

... given this strange decision... makes you wonder if the USN was so readly to cancel the program then one might suspect that perhaps the missile was never that effective or reliable in the first place, and may have been grossly ineffective/inaccurate all along...

Sea Demon · 06-02-06, 10:23 PM

Who are they (USN) going to use these missiles against? Why maintain an expensive missile like this when AIM-120 is more than capable against current threats? I don't see any long ranged threats impending for US CSG's. Nor do I see any real challenges to US air supremacy in any real world battlespace, that would warrant the re-inception of this type of missile. Russia? No. They can't amass the long-ranged bomber and fighter formations to confront US naval forces anymore. China?? Nope. Not yet at any rate. India? They're becoming more of a friend than anything else.

Bottom line. USN currently doesn't need the Phoenix.

And remember, the new AIM-120D upgrade gives it a range reaching 130 Km (70 Nm). That's plenty in the world of modern BVR tactics and modern electronic warfare.

No the Phoenixes were very effective. But today's threat assessments don't require they remain in service.

LoBlo · 06-02-06, 10:32 PM

Because the Phoenix isn't that much more expensive than the AIM-120. About $390,000 per missile for an AIM-120. About $470,000 for the Phoenix.

Thing is, if the Phoenix has already achieved the best speed, and better range. While spend time upgrading the AIM-120 when one could instead upgrade the Phoenix?...

Quote:

Bottom line. USN currently doesn't need the Phoenix

One could argue that the USN currently doesn't need the AIM-120 since it has the Phoenix.:hmm:

Sea Demon · 06-02-06, 10:42 PM

I'm not sure where you come up with Phoenix's pricetag. But it's widely known in the industry that Phoenix was actually closer to $1.2 Million a piece. AMRAAM is closer to the figure you listed. And Phoenix is large and heavy. It's also not compatible on Hornets, Vipers, or Eagles. It's electronics package was only available on the "Cats". And they've been retired. Even if they gave these other aircraft the capability to carry Phoenix, they could carry a bigger AMRAAM load due to the weight considerations. And it probably wouldn't fit in the Raptor's weapons bay. AMRAAM has much better electronics and is easier to maintain and upgrade. The only thing Phoenix has over AMRAAM is an additional 30 Nm. And that's about it.

It was a good weapon, but AMRAAM is much more useful for today's threats.

LoBlo · 06-02-06, 11:24 PM

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...m-54-specs.htm

Sea Demon · 06-02-06, 11:49 PM

hmm. I stand corrected on the costs. I just remember reading in a congressional budget office report, the prohibitive cost of Phoenix and Sparrow versus other newer systems. Not an online report so no link. And they listed $1.2 Million per unit. :hmm: It wouldn't be the first time someone in government screwed up the numbers.

At any rate, the other stuff I listed is the main reasons we saw the Phoenix go away. I'm sad it and the Tomcats have been retired. But like I said, AMRAAM is more than capable in today's battlespace. And without the Tomcats, Phoenix's aren't useful at all.

06-02-06, 11:24 PM	#5
LoBlo Subsim Diehard Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas! Posts: 971 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 3	http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...m-54-specs.htm __________________ "Seek not to offend or annoy... only to speak the truth"-a wise man

06-02-06, 11:49 PM	#6
Sea Demon Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,552 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	hmm. I stand corrected on the costs. I just remember reading in a congressional budget office report, the prohibitive cost of Phoenix and Sparrow versus other newer systems. Not an online report so no link. And they listed $1.2 Million per unit. :hmm: It wouldn't be the first time someone in government screwed up the numbers. At any rate, the other stuff I listed is the main reasons we saw the Phoenix go away. I'm sad it and the Tomcats have been retired. But like I said, AMRAAM is more than capable in today's battlespace. And without the Tomcats, Phoenix's aren't useful at all. Last edited by Sea Demon; 06-03-06 at 12:09 AM.

06-02-06, 10:23 PM	#2
Sea Demon Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,552 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Who are they (USN) going to use these missiles against? Why maintain an expensive missile like this when AIM-120 is more than capable against current threats? I don't see any long ranged threats impending for US CSG's. Nor do I see any real challenges to US air supremacy in any real world battlespace, that would warrant the re-inception of this type of missile. Russia? No. They can't amass the long-ranged bomber and fighter formations to confront US naval forces anymore. China?? Nope. Not yet at any rate. India? They're becoming more of a friend than anything else. Bottom line. USN currently doesn't need the Phoenix. And remember, the new AIM-120D upgrade gives it a range reaching 130 Km (70 Nm). That's plenty in the world of modern BVR tactics and modern electronic warfare. No the Phoenixes were very effective. But today's threat assessments don't require they remain in service.

06-02-06, 10:42 PM	#4
Sea Demon Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,552 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	I'm not sure where you come up with Phoenix's pricetag. But it's widely known in the industry that Phoenix was actually closer to $1.2 Million a piece. AMRAAM is closer to the figure you listed. And Phoenix is large and heavy. It's also not compatible on Hornets, Vipers, or Eagles. It's electronics package was only available on the "Cats". And they've been retired. Even if they gave these other aircraft the capability to carry Phoenix, they could carry a bigger AMRAAM load due to the weight considerations. And it probably wouldn't fit in the Raptor's weapons bay. AMRAAM has much better electronics and is easier to maintain and upgrade. The only thing Phoenix has over AMRAAM is an additional 30 Nm. And that's about it. It was a good weapon, but AMRAAM is much more useful for today's threats.