Big election victory for Hamas - Page 5

August · 02-01-06, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

@Skybird: All religions I know about, specially the catholic, try that their followers have as many sons as possible.

I've been a Catholic all my life and i have never been told that.

The only reason i could guess for the Spanish roman catholic church to recommend such a thing would be to provide more soldiers for its armies.

Personal reasons for having large numbers of children would i'd think be to ensure the bloodline survives and to provide care givers for the parents old age.

The Avon Lady · 02-01-06, 11:47 AM

You'll never catch on, will you, Hitman?

The penny will never drop?

Islam is NOT simply different because there are groups of radical terrorists that draw all the attention, who by coincidence also happen to be Muslims.

Islam is different because those terrorists can legitimately base everything they do on Islamic texts new and ancient, their history, legal edicts and precedents and examples straight from the life of Allah's "only true prophet".

It is the non-Radical Muslims who have much less to stand on theologically the more "moderate" they are.

And Allah knows best.

Hitman · 02-01-06, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Islam is different because those terrorists can legitimately base everything they do on Islamic texts new and ancient, their history, legal edicts and precedents and examples straight from the life of Allah's "only true prophet".

texts? history? examples from the prophet's life?

Ahem....

Shall I remember how Moses managed to free the jews from Egypt? Unless I remember wrong, the jew G*d killed the first son of all egyptian families, and sent several plagues to destroy Egypt.

Shall I remember how the jew G*d ended up with corruption and vice in Sodoma & Gomorra? I happen to remember that he wiped them out of the face of the earth.

What if we were to apply the same methods to those who do not respect the 12 laws from Moses, which came straight from God? God did it...it's written.

And my spanish ancestors had a good time "christianizing" millions of indians in America and showing them the real faith, accompanied by catholic preachers & monks who blessed left and right all agonizing indians

But yes, Islam is different, it is perverse, it does not admit any tolerant interpretation. Right.

Skybird · 02-01-06, 12:07 PM

Hitman,

I base on
- Islam's scriptures, that I red myself for a minor part, and red about in academcial literature by more competent authors,
- Islam'S history
- the historcially true biography of Muhammad (which is not necessarily identical with the one Islam is claiming to be the tue one).

I also base on my own perceptions when having lived in Muslim places for many, many months.

What needs to be said to counter your opinion i already have said, here , in other threads, in the last weeks and months. If you think there are so many similarities between Christianity and Islam that they outnumber the differences, then I know it better and must tell you that you are simply wrong. Judging by history. Judging by Muhammad. Judging by scirptures. Such misperceptions are very popular at present. they are also intentionally enforced by according lobbies. but they remain to be false by facts.I also said a lot about the Western misperception of Islam, in recent months.

Please understand that I do not repeat every time and again all that sermon whenever the same questions get asked again. I alreeady have adressed what you said, and several times so.

The chatholic church's position towards Islam is irresponsible, a treachery towards their own followers, short: it is completly messed up and queer. a level of having lost any sense for reality that it finds my psychologist's interest for psychopathology. The damage that has been done by John Paul II. can hardly be overestimated. But this is another long chapter, a very long chapter. Don't get me started

Whole books alreday have been written about that. If you need recommendations and are fluid in German, let me know.

I have given some examples in my last long reply above. I could give you many, many more, if you need, I have books filled with such stuff. Think about the stories above, the yearly progroms, the massacre in Sudan, the synode 1999. And then try to counter it. Don't tell me these are isolated single events. they are not - they are the rule. Fact.

It's a harsh reality, I agree. Nevertheless it is the only reality you ever will get. You don't like it, and thus close your eyes. I don't like it, too, but I try to make people open their eyes nevertheless. pink-red illusions will not help us a bit.

Tolerant interpretation of Islam? How should that be possible with THAT founding figure, and with that bunch of opportunistic, contradictive scriptures, and with such an absurd and obscure theology at center? You need to know how the scriptures of Islam emerged over three cneturies, that is quite revealing. you need to link their form and shape to the biography of muhammad, then you better understand why they are what they are. It has nothing to do with devine revelations falling from sky to earth.

Islam has fought more wars against it's own faith, and against foreign religions as well than any other religion. It has more expansive drive than any other religion. And it's ethical and philosophical developement is stuck in the medieval. Look at the inferior national structures they have. The high rate of unemployment. the inferior industry. what there is in science and industry - they need to import, sometimes steal from the West. They are not creative, constructive. they are consuming only. And now tell me that all this only is by random, or becasue they misinterpreted the basics of their culture. It is because they perfectly represent the basics of their culture, and Islam's teachings. Islam is the problem, and it's distorted self-perception, not my "false" perception of it.

Nevertheless they keep on looking down on us, claiming to have the right to make us submit to Islam. they are turning the ammount of tolerance you have displayed ion your last sentence against us. Our own democratic rules work for them, against us. You idnicate we have an obligation to accept them and their faith in our middle, if they follow our rules. They will always try to overcome our rules.

"Thanks to your own democratic laws we will overcome you, thanks to your own religious rules we will rule you.â€˜" - "Why should we do that...? You cannot teach us anything, and we DO NOT NEED TOM LEARN ANYTHING.â€œ - you better start believing that this atittude is at the heart and core of Islam, according to Muhammad, scriptures, and displayed in all 14 centuries of it's history.

August · 02-01-06, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

What if we were to apply the same methods to those who do not respect the 12 laws from Moses, which came straight from God? God did it...it's written.

A couple nits, it was 10 commandments, not 12 laws and violating them was cause for GOD to send the transgressor to hell, not beheaded by ones fellow MAN on video.

The Avon Lady · 02-01-06, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Quote:

Islam is different because those terrorists can legitimately base everything they do on Islamic texts new and ancient, their history, legal edicts and precedents and examples straight from the life of Allah's "only true prophet".

texts? history? examples from the prophet's life?

Ahem....

Shall I remember how Moses managed to free the jews from Egypt? Unless I remember wrong, the jew G*d killed the first son of all egyptian families, and sent several plagues to destroy Egypt.

First of all you've got it backards. The 10 plagues ended - not started - with the divine death of Egypt's first-born.

Second, what Jewish legal law is derived from this? What Jewish living-through-example has been passed on from generation to generation from our exodus from Egypt?

Third, you wish to argue with G-d's actions? Go ahead. Why blame me?! :P

Where's the comparison? Oh, there isn't one. Whadayaknow!

Quote:

Shall I remember how the jew G*d ended up with corruption and vice in Sodoma & Gomorra? I happen to remember that he wiped them out of the face of the earth.

Same questions follow. What practical legal or ethical Jewish rules are derived from this episode?

Quote:

What if we were to apply the same methods to those who do not respect the 12 laws from Moses, which came straight from God? God did it...it's written.

12? I thought it was 10! As they say: Jesus saves. Moses invests. We've made a 20% prophet - er - profit.

Quote:

And my spanish ancestors had a good time "christianizing" millions of indians in America and showing them the real faith, accompanied by catholic preachers & monks who blessed left and right all agonizing indians

The point being?

Quote:

But yes, Islam is different, it is perverse, it does not admit any tolerant interpretation. Right.

Of course there are such interpretations. You just have to close your eyes to the contradictions to live with those interpretations.

STEED · 02-01-06, 07:07 PM

The Middle East has always been volatile and this new situation well we shall see itâ€™s potentially more unstable very worrying events are unfolding.

View Poll Results: Hamas will lead a new government in the Palestinian Authority
It will stick to the "destruction of "the Zionist entity" and gain nothing	19	46.34%
It will compromise in order to gain political results	6	14.63%
It will start fighting amoungst itself and be divided	10	24.39%
I don't know - and really don't care ...	6	14.63%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

02-01-06, 11:47 AM	#62
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	You'll never catch on, will you, Hitman? The penny will never drop? Islam is NOT simply different because there are groups of radical terrorists that draw all the attention, who by coincidence also happen to be Muslims. Islam is different because those terrorists can legitimately base everything they do on Islamic texts new and ancient, their history, legal edicts and precedents and examples straight from the life of Allah's "only true prophet". It is the non-Radical Muslims who have much less to stand on theologically the more "moderate" they are. And Allah knows best. __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

02-01-06, 12:07 PM	#64
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,630 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Hitman, I base on - Islam's scriptures, that I red myself for a minor part, and red about in academcial literature by more competent authors, - Islam'S history - the historcially true biography of Muhammad (which is not necessarily identical with the one Islam is claiming to be the tue one). I also base on my own perceptions when having lived in Muslim places for many, many months. What needs to be said to counter your opinion i already have said, here , in other threads, in the last weeks and months. If you think there are so many similarities between Christianity and Islam that they outnumber the differences, then I know it better and must tell you that you are simply wrong. Judging by history. Judging by Muhammad. Judging by scirptures. Such misperceptions are very popular at present. they are also intentionally enforced by according lobbies. but they remain to be false by facts.I also said a lot about the Western misperception of Islam, in recent months. Please understand that I do not repeat every time and again all that sermon whenever the same questions get asked again. I alreeady have adressed what you said, and several times so. The chatholic church's position towards Islam is irresponsible, a treachery towards their own followers, short: it is completly messed up and queer. a level of having lost any sense for reality that it finds my psychologist's interest for psychopathology. The damage that has been done by John Paul II. can hardly be overestimated. But this is another long chapter, a very long chapter. Don't get me started Whole books alreday have been written about that. If you need recommendations and are fluid in German, let me know. I have given some examples in my last long reply above. I could give you many, many more, if you need, I have books filled with such stuff. Think about the stories above, the yearly progroms, the massacre in Sudan, the synode 1999. And then try to counter it. Don't tell me these are isolated single events. they are not - they are the rule. Fact. It's a harsh reality, I agree. Nevertheless it is the only reality you ever will get. You don't like it, and thus close your eyes. I don't like it, too, but I try to make people open their eyes nevertheless. pink-red illusions will not help us a bit. Tolerant interpretation of Islam? How should that be possible with THAT founding figure, and with that bunch of opportunistic, contradictive scriptures, and with such an absurd and obscure theology at center? You need to know how the scriptures of Islam emerged over three cneturies, that is quite revealing. you need to link their form and shape to the biography of muhammad, then you better understand why they are what they are. It has nothing to do with devine revelations falling from sky to earth. Islam has fought more wars against it's own faith, and against foreign religions as well than any other religion. It has more expansive drive than any other religion. And it's ethical and philosophical developement is stuck in the medieval. Look at the inferior national structures they have. The high rate of unemployment. the inferior industry. what there is in science and industry - they need to import, sometimes steal from the West. They are not creative, constructive. they are consuming only. And now tell me that all this only is by random, or becasue they misinterpreted the basics of their culture. It is because they perfectly represent the basics of their culture, and Islam's teachings. Islam is the problem, and it's distorted self-perception, not my "false" perception of it. Nevertheless they keep on looking down on us, claiming to have the right to make us submit to Islam. they are turning the ammount of tolerance you have displayed ion your last sentence against us. Our own democratic rules work for them, against us. You idnicate we have an obligation to accept them and their faith in our middle, if they follow our rules. They will always try to overcome our rules. "Thanks to your own democratic laws we will overcome you, thanks to your own religious rules we will rule you.â€˜" - "Why should we do that...? You cannot teach us anything, and we DO NOT NEED TOM LEARN ANYTHING.â€œ - you better start believing that this atittude is at the heart and core of Islam, according to Muhammad, scriptures, and displayed in all 14 centuries of it's history. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-01-06, 07:07 PM	#67
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	The Middle East has always been volatile and this new situation well we shall see itâ€™s potentially more unstable very worrying events are unfolding.