RuB 1.45 - Why are single ship contacts back?

[runyan99]

When I was playing under 1.43, I never got any single ship contacts. I had to luck into them, or I had to hunt for convoys. This was as it should be.

I just started my new patrol under 1.45 and I'm getting single ship contact information. Why?

Please take it out. U-boats didn't get single ship contact reports. They got convoy reports. Other U-boats didn't report single ship contacts to other boats, they sunk them. Condors didn't regularly report much of anything to u-boats. Where exactly is this information coming from? It's garbage.

Take these single contacts out. It isn't historical.

Merchant ships transmitted their positions and all sorts of information uncoded well into the war. This could be picked up by the raidooperator on the uboats so the singel contacts are not unhistorical.

[Krupp]

There is a DF (Direction Finding) aerial in the conning tower of the U-Boat. The round one that you can see or the top of it since it's inside it's housing. And why shouldn't U-Boats receive locations of single merchants? Can you imagine how much supplies can be fitted inside of a 5000 tons ships for exaple. Change it to truck loads or train box cars and you can see the importance to sink all of them...

Finding targets via this system ain't magig (or garbage). By listening the right frequensies (wavelengths) you can receive (hear) a transmission from a ship and the bearing for that transmission can be seen too. One thing that makes it too easy is that you get the range and speed and course in the game when you should only get the direction of it and approximate range perhaps too. If the ship sends another messages later on then you could have an idea of its course and speed.

But this is how I would explain it to myself:Another possibility is that the position message is from BdU. They have been able to calculate the position of the transmission because it has been received by other units (U-Boats, surface vessels,airplanes) too and who then have sended the info (bearing of the received message from their location) to BdU. When you have 2 or 3 bearings from different locations you can "easily" spot the sender by crossing these bearings. Then the BdU sends the exact location of the target to nearby U-Boats.



The "Bismarck" was eventually located by this method because she sended a long message on her way to France. Royal Navy wasn't aware of her exact location at that moment and were searching from a wrong direction. This message helped them to point the searchs into right area. And we know the result for that.

Well, this is how I have figured out. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And like Jotte said, if the ship sends a message that is not coded and it says like blah blah...49°39.00 N, 15°5.00 W... now that is not difficult to pinpoint.

[CWorth]

Early in the war there were ships that travelled on their own.

Only when the convoy system kicked in big did the numbers seriously decrease.Heck even during Drumbeat the Uboats would routinely find single merchants off the USA and hit them within sight of shore.So your comment of single ships not being historical is wrong.

And to top it off RUB has never removed the single ships..they have always been there since the very first release of RUB.

Beery has only decreased the numbers of them to about 20% of the stock setting and lowered the reporting chance of them..just cause you did not find any dont mean they are not there.Just have to know how and where to look for them.

[coronas]

Sometime ago I read a book about IIWW naval warfare, a great source of intelligence was the newspapers!! In neutral countries (Spain, Portugal, USA) information about entries, sorties, cargo and name of the ships were of public domain . A good agent send to Bdu, next Uboot captain and ship sunk!

[runyan99]

Can anyone site a real example of a U-boat detecting a single merchant ship via DF, and then sinking that merchant, or of a u-boat being informed by BdU of the presence of a single merchant ship in the u-boat's patrol grid?

They didn't even have to use DF at times like I posted above, the merchant ships were sending out their positions in their communications uncoded. This surprised and astonished the uboat commanders as it was happening well into the war.
This is mentioned in Hitler's U-Boat War by Clay Blair.

[runyan99]

Then please, find me an example of a U-boat using this information to sink a lone merchant. It should be easy.

I don't think you'll find many.

The single ship contact information in SHIII is a game invention by the designers to increase the action for the player, and to avoid long fruitless patrols.

You're twisting historical reality to conform to SHIII.

U-boats were not able to use radio intercepts to reliably locate and sink merchant vessels. Far and away most of the single ship contacts were chance encounters detected by the eyeball of the watchmen.

P.S. What pages are you referring to in Clay Blair? I'll re-read it.

Originally Posted by runyan99

Then please, find me an example of a U-boat using this information to sink a lone merchant. It should be easy.

I don't think you'll find many.

The single ship contact information in SHIII is a game invention by the designers to increase the action for the player, and to avoid long fruitless patrols.

You're twisting historical reality to conform to SHIII.

U-boats were not able to use radio intercepts to reliably locate and sink merchant vessels. Far and away most of the single ship contacts were chance encounters detected by the eyeball of the watchmen.

P.S. What pages are you referring to in Clay Blair? I'll re-read it.

This one is even better...!!!!

[Ducimus]

Source:
The Battle of the Atlantic: The allies submarine fight against Hitlers Grey Wolves of the sea. By Andrew WIlliams.

Page 165, Chapter 8, paragraph 4.



Whlist Doniz hoped for favoruble conditions on the American coast, he could never have imagned just howe favoruable they would be. The westword progress of the Drumbeat boats had been monitored carefully by U-boat command. On 2 January, Doniz decided to break his own orders and authorized U-123 to search for a Greek steamer drifting some 200 miles east of Newfoundland with a broken rudder. Hardegen remebers: 'There was a pea-souper of a fog when we arrived there. It was a sudden suprise to see the shadowy outline of a ship. I could see there were two tugs in the process of taking on lines. I coudlnt really shoot - i was too close. And then the fog lifed and suddenly i saw two destroyers. I turned around immediatly and the fog closed in again. They couldnt see me'.

Donitz's message to Hardegen had been intercepted by Bletchley, decrypted and passed to the Tracking room. The two Canadian destroyers were lying in wait for him. 'I said to myself, "if i sink this freighter, and perhaps one destroyer, theres still the second one. It's shallow water and i can't escape, so theres a good chance of my boat being sunk." My mission was to get to New York, so i let the ship go, though i felt very bad about it.'

The U-boat trap did not close but it took U-123 300 miles off course and wasted a great deal of fuel

[CWorth]

Can we please get a lock on this thread as well.Lets nip this one in the bud before it turns the corner like the last thread.

If you do not like the single contacts then TURN THEM OFF!!!!Or better yet..simply stop playing the game and sell it to someone who will appreciate it and the work that these modders put into the game to get it where it is now.
Dont go digging up an 8 months old thread just to start the same argument and crap that got the last thread locked.

Originally Posted by CWorth

Can we please get a lock on this thread as well.Lets nip this one in the bud before it turns the corner like the last thread.

If you do not like the single contacts then TURN THEM OFF!!!!Or better yet..simply stop playing the game and sell it to someone who will appreciate it and the work that these modders put into the game to get it where it is now.
Dont go digging up an 8 months old thread just to start the same argument and crap that got the last thread locked.

Oh. I see. if someone does not agree with your analysis the solution is to just lock the thread?

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Source:
The Battle of the Atlantic: The allies submarine fight against Hitlers Grey Wolves of the sea. By Andrew WIlliams.

Page 165, Chapter 8, paragraph 4.



Whlist Doniz hoped for favoruble conditions on the American coast, he could never have imagned just howe favoruable they would be. The westword progress of the Drumbeat boats had been monitored carefully by U-boat command. On 2 January, Doniz decided to break his own orders and authorized U-123 to search for a Greek steamer drifting some 200 miles east of Newfoundland with a broken rudder. Hardegen remebers: 'There was a pea-souper of a fog when we arrived there. It was a sudden suprise to see the shadowy outline of a ship. I could see there were two tugs in the process of taking on lines. I coudlnt really shoot - i was too close. And then the fog lifed and suddenly i saw two destroyers. I turned around immediatly and the fog closed in again. They couldnt see me'.

Donitz's message to Hardegen had been intercepted by Bletchley, decrypted and passed to the Tracking room. The two Canadian destroyers were lying in wait for him. 'I said to myself, "if i sink this freighter, and perhaps one destroyer, theres still the second one. It's shallow water and i can't escape, so theres a good chance of my boat being sunk." My mission was to get to New York, so i let the ship go, though i felt very bad about it.'

The U-boat trap did not close but it took U-123 300 miles off course and wasted a great deal of fuel

yes, I already mentioned this one in the other thread (the NYGM vs GW one). It is the only documented case in the six years of the war. Now if you're looking for the opposite then you'll find countless descriptions.

Well, if you go back and read other posts you'll find that I'm not alone.

[quote=Magua]

Originally Posted by runyan99

Then please, find me an example of a U-boat using this information to sink a lone merchant. It should be easy.

I don't think you'll find many.

The single ship contact information in SHIII is a game invention by the designers to increase the action for the player, and to avoid long fruitless patrols.

You're twisting historical reality to conform to SHIII.

U-boats were not able to use radio intercepts to reliably locate and sink merchant vessels. Far and away most of the single ship contacts were chance encounters detected by the eyeball of the watchmen.

P.S. What pages are you referring to in Clay Blair? I'll re-read it.

I think this person's post really states it the best. Especially the "twisting historical reality" statement.

And to expand on that, I think by including single contacts on the navigation map in a mod and then making it seem as if it was the norm during the war, really does a dis service to History.