SSN KURSK was down by US SSN Memphis !!!

[Takeda Shingen]

A few things, Kapitan:


1. The submerged displacement of an Oscar II is 18,300, not 24,000. That is less than a single Ohio at 18,750, submerged.

2. If detected, the American submarine would just sprint away. The Russians would not fire in persuit, turning an uncomfortable situation into an outright shooting war.

3. Officers are not non-coms, and regardless of what your friends have told you, most naval analysts have confirmed that Russian non-com training still lags far behind the western equivalent nations.


Carry on.

[Kapitan]

1. The submerged displacement of an Oscar II is 18,300, not 24,000. That is less than a single Ohio at 18,750, submerged

after diliberation much work and acctualy seeing an oscar and standing on the upper casing of an oscar i know for a 100% fact the displacement is 24,000 tonne.

i have reaserch russian submarines ever since i first visited russia and that is about 10 years ago. i have spent painful hours researching every class going and im still not done.

im privlaged that i can acctualy go on these vessels and talk first hand to officers and crew many of whom are friends with my stepfather obviously we dont sit and chat about the classified stuff but displacement is not classified and it is 24,000 tonnes and it is officaly recognised.

If detected, the American submarine would just sprint away. The Russians would not fire in persuit, turning an uncomfortable situation into an outright shooting war.

yes its S.O.P but if a collision occored with a oscar then the sub would surface because of damage and thus engauged by russian forces
again the sub would have to surender the russians would boar the vessel and would tow it back to poliyarni where it would be impounded and crew imprisioned (this is fact S.O.P OF NAVAL EXERCISE FOLLOWING MAJOR ACCIDENT WITH FORIGN COUNTERPART)

3. Officers are not non-coms, and regardless of what your friends have told you, most naval analysts have confirmed that Russian non-com training still lags far behind the western equivalent nations.

officers are trained at glasgow and liverpool and are trained also by the royal navy i know this again for fact news papers such as navy news are chipping in on the act there was a article saying that there was russians training in england which they do because i do talk to them i have russians at my college and they are also going into the russian navy

not 100% up to standard but they are nearly there and not far off youve seen the reports of them training with india america japan britain NATO doesnt it show you they can do everything we do and possibly more

ive spent a long time researching kursk 5 years in fact from the day it happend for some one who has been to russia been on a submarine similar to kursk to speak with officers and crew to acctualy get info fast is well pretty good.

i know things that are not classified that just been elabarated hence the displacement the speed the weapons i dont know much more than the average joe in some places but in others i know far more ive been there ive seen it i know what it looks like ive felt it

so please dont tell me crap that i know of and know it aint true thanks

[Takeda Shingen]

[quote="Kapitain"]

after diliberation much work and acctualy seeing an oscar and standing on the upper casing of an oscar i know for a 100% fact the displacement is 24,000 tonne.

i have reaserch russian submarines ever since i first visited russia and that is about 10 years ago. i have spent painful hours researching every class going and im still not done.

im privlaged that i can acctualy go on these vessels and talk first hand to officers and crew many of whom are friends with my stepfather obviously we dont sit and chat about the classified stuff but displacement is not classified and it is 24,000 tonnes and it is officaly recognised.

Norman Polmar of The Naval Institute and Robert Hutchinson of Janes Fighting Ships disagree with you.

yes its S.O.P but if a collision occored with a oscar then the sub would surface because of damage and thus engauged by russian forces
again the sub would have to surender the russians would boar the vessel and would tow it back to poliyarni where it would be impounded and crew imprisioned (this is fact S.O.P OF NAVAL EXERCISE FOLLOWING MAJOR ACCIDENT WITH FORIGN COUNTERPART)

Not likely.

officers are trained at glasgow and liverpool and are trained also by the royal navy i know this again for fact news papers such as navy news are chipping in on the act there was a article saying that there was russians training in england which they do because i do talk to them i have russians at my college and they are also going into the russian navy

not 100% up to standard but they are nearly there and not far off youve seen the reports of them training with india america japan britain NATO doesnt it show you they can do everything we do and possibly more

ive spent a long time researching kursk 5 years in fact from the day it happend for some one who has been to russia been on a submarine similar to kursk to speak with officers and crew to acctualy get info fast is well pretty good.

i know things that are not classified that just been elabarated hence the displacement the speed the weapons i dont know much more than the average joe in some places but in others i know far more ive been there ive seen it i know what it looks like ive felt it

so please dont tell me crap that i know of and know it aint true thanks

Once again, officers are not non-coms. Perhaps you need to do some more research.

[Kapitan]

Norman Polmar of The Naval Institute and Robert Hutchinson of Janes Fighting Ships disagree with you.

he aint the only one mate i know exactly how much an oscar II SSGN displaces norman polmar has probly never even stepped foot inside a modern russian submarine for a start id doubt he would even get as far as the front gates all he does is go to the submarine vetrens club in st petersburg and is fed the information.

now i have a folder that is way over 700 pages in length detailing every bit of the oscar II class SSGN from things like the size of the torpedo tubes to what reactors it uses (which isnt classified how they work is ) (oscar II SSGN uses OK-650B reactors)

in that folder every bit of information detailing wieght and displacement all totals 24,000 tonnes i know what im talking about as i said earlier ive been there seen it ect i get annoyed that people seem to think that its some thing diffrent because officals state it

24,000 tonnes is listed in many online sites but i dont get my information from there it comes from people in the know ie the people who work on the dam thing all they tell me is the little bits bits they can tell me like displacement ect because its not classified

Not likely.

uss gudgon i belive it was an old diesel submarine was forced to the surface by russian destroyers after it wsa found to be inside russian waters the russians let out a small depth charge attack (with grenades) and trapping the submarine under the water for 36 hours finaly forcing her to surface

if this was a naval exercise you can bank on the fact the russians would have boarded the vessel and taken the crew prisioner as they did with american pilots did they not so a submarine crew would be a great prize.

now america doesnt officaly go into russian waters (but we all know they do) the same thing can happen and by international law the russians can capture a vessel and imprision its crew if it resisted then it can be attacked
back in the iraq war in 2003 royal navy sailors in a rigid raider we captured by iran forces and taken prisioner there is no diffrence
its a violation to violate terratorial waters it can be seen as a hostile intent

Once again, officers are not non-coms. Perhaps you need to do some more research.

in terms of theroy work they are the equal in terms of the practical there a bit behind but not far behind only about 5 or so years i know russians train at colleges i have russians at my college so you cant realy tell me that they dont exisit when i speak to them nearly every day [/quote]

[Kapitan]

i suggest you take a look at russian standard oparating proceadures

[Takeda Shingen]

I trust the printed research of well-established naval experts. Sorry.


I am well acquainted with naval law. However, you and I know very well that the US plays by its own rules (look at the Cuban Missile crisis for an example). Bluster aside, there is no way that the US government would stand by and allow the Russians to tow one of their boats into port, regardless of how right the Russians were.

This is a question of international politics, not operating procedures.

[Kapitan]

yes it is very true but i doubt america would attack russia i can understand you trusting naval what you mc call its but take a look at thier back ground norman polmar spends more time researching air craft than naval vessels

norman polmar well i severly doubt has even set foot in a russian submarine base and i doubt more that he has even been on a russian front line submarine the diffrence here is i have i shout about ive been on them yes but i dont shout about whats inside them

we know america plays by its own rules and one day it will become unstuck cuban missile crisis again stopping ships in international waters can be seen as piracy did you know that all russian submarines had orders to fire if they saw any ship being borded by the americans?

anyways kreschev got what he wanted in the end the removal of missiles from turkey the cuban missile crisis was only basicaly to prove a point that america isnt invincible (september 11th showed us that)

[Takeda Shingen]

Who said anything about attacking Russia? The US would put its diplomatic foot down like it has done time and time again, thus forcing Russia to relent in the towing of the submarine. The US can do this soley because it is the US.


Kapitan, standing on a submarine is different than researching them. I still trust the experts more than you.


Finally, the orders to the Foxtrots are irrelevant. Do you even know why the Russians wanted to put the missiles in Cuba? It was not just Turkey, but Germany and the whole of Europe as well. The USSR sought equality in missile placement, as its homeland was endangered from the European missiles. Cuban missiles would go "tit-for-tat" with the US. Yes, the Turkish placments were removed, but the European missiles remained. In this case, the Soviets did not get what they wanted.

[Kapitan]

its all in the name of information im not a cuban missile crisis buff but i know enough to get through but did you know not all missiles were removed air defence and ASM missiles remained and so did 4 golf class SSB's

i can understand you trusting a naval analyst but the point is has he been there done that probly not.

putting the diplomatic foot down is hard at the moment especialy with putin in power he can be a right ass hole at times but anyways

[Bellman]

Kapitain, glad to see youre still here after the Putin stuff - thought the next post might be Goulag sourced.

Take note the 'Mein' has gone ( and Mon Cher for the French) in response to the homophobic She Demon -
shorry these teeth, I meant Sea Demon. Havent heard much from him(?) lately.

[Kapitan]

ive not sheen him too hope nothing happend to her