How long does it REALLY take to reload torpedo tubes?

Steiger · 06-26-17, 05:56 PM

I'm wondering how long reloads really took, and were multiple tubes reloaded at once? In the game in takes ~30 seconds, and that doesn't feel right. I know we've got tons of IRL mariners on here who would know something like this.

shipkiller1 · 06-26-17, 06:05 PM

15 to 30 minutes.

Steiger · 06-26-17, 06:36 PM

Can more than 1 tube reload at once?

shipkiller1 · 06-26-17, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steiger

Can more than 1 tube reload at once?

Yes

Due to personnel requirements and physical space limitations only two tubes at one time.

ChaosDuck7 · 06-26-17, 07:04 PM

Hopefully this will be changed in the game then to reflect accurate real life reloading limitations?

PL_Harpoon · 06-26-17, 07:11 PM

Well, we can't reload the game to load torpedoes in pairs but we can modify game files to so that the total time of loading two torpedoes is the same. It would still mean 10x as much as what's now (I think in all sims reload time is much shorter than that).

BTW, shipkiller1 - 2 torpedoes at once means one on port side and one on starboard, or can both be loaded at once on the same side?

Barkhorn1x · 06-27-17, 11:08 AM

That article sounds crazy as the 688 and 688i were improvements on earlier classes but, boy, sure doesn't sound like it! Nuts to think that you have to partially take the deck apart to reload. That simply makes no sense. And the pics above point to a more efficient/automated system.

I'd like to hear from some former crew mates like Jive Turkey for confirmation here.

shipkiller1 · 06-27-17, 02:14 PM

Ok, everyone needs to take a step back and forget anything you have heard or read about or pictures you have seen regarding Torpedo loading before 1970..

To answer the first question, yes, port and stbd. Not enough room to do both upper and lower tubes efficiently together.

See pic..

This is a fourth flight 688 (688i) and the two tubs on the left are tubes two and four. You can see that it is faster to do one each on each side simultaneously.

All torpedo tube loading is 'powered'. The boats do have a block and tackle for this purpose but it is the 'emergency handling gear'. If you loose hydraulics then you use this... If you have lost hydraulics, then you are in a WORLD of hurt...

Once you get the weapon into position in front of the tube, then you pivot the tray to align it with the tube (cant). Attach the loading pole to the aft end of the weapon, the pop all for straps that hold the weapon to the dollies. Then set the pivot tray to the depth own ship is currently at.. (important).
Then start ramming the weapon into the tube.... slowly.. After the weapon is fully loaded, the lock the weapon into the tube. Remove loading pole, and finish the loading process... cables/wires etc.. which I will not go into here.

In the first picture that was posted yes, you have to remove the upper level and middle level decks. That is one of the reasons I stated that it takes two or three hours of setup before you can ship the first weapon. Usually it takes all day.....

shipkiller1 · 06-27-17, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkhorn1x

That article sounds crazy as the 688 and 688i were improvements on earlier classes but, boy, sure doesn't sound like it! Nuts to think that you have to partially take the deck apart to reload. That simply makes no sense. And the pics above point to a more efficient/automated system.

I'd like to hear from some former crew mates like Jive Turkey for confirmation here.

So, how would YOU get these 3500lbs weapons into a tube only 33ft in diameter and packed with equipment?

Of course something is going to have to be removed to allow access. The decks are the easy things.. The upper level deck is also where the weapons skid pieces are stowed.

The weapons skid sits topside, bolted to the deck.

The middle level deck is actually a hydraulically powered lifting deck that pivots and locks into place allowing the weapon to ether raise to the topside deck skid or lower from the deck skid into the rails on the middle level deck. Once secured in place, the locks are disengaged and the middle level deck lowers (on its pivot point) which lowers the weapon into the room to site on the four dollies in the original picture. Then it is strapped down.

This was us in Guam:

The baseplate is bolted to the deck. The Welmet is the main structure attached to the baseplate. Side rails, the four 'dog ears' and the two legs.
All these are disassembled and stowed below.

Hydraulic powered 'rammer chains' on the middle level deck raise the weapon into the deck skid or lower the weapon into the room.

In the original picture in the first part of the thread, you can see the middle level deck in the raised position.

PL_Harpoon · 06-27-17, 03:14 PM

I think the problem is that the article is written in a such way, that it can be interpreted that you must remove deck floors to reload torpedoes into the tube (from the rack).
I think it's reasonable to assume you need to do this to load all torpedoes into their storage area on sub.

I also found this video:

I know it's a different sub, but the torpedo is the same and at least the ramming process seems similar to what shipkiller1 has said.
In this video the process takes 1.5 minutes but you can clearly see how much has been cut out.
If you add all the necessary wiring then suddenly 15 minutes doesn't seem that much.

It also just appeared to me, that it seems like the upper tubes can be loaded only with the torpedoes from the upper rails. Otherwise it would increase load times even more.

Too bad we can't implement realistic reloads (reloading 1 port and 1 starboard torpedo at a time) without the help from the devs. But we can modify the reload times to somehow simulate the same effect (like setting reload times to 7.5 minutes for a single tube).
I think I'm gonna play with those things for my mod

Barkhorn1x · 06-27-17, 03:26 PM

OK. Think we are talking past each other. That linked article seems to be referencing magazine (in port) replenishment procedures - as does some of the pictures. So of course that's going to be a rather lengthy and involved process.

What the OP asked is how long does it take to reload tubes between shots (on patrol). And the consensus appears to be 15 mins. which means the game timeframe is very generous.

Julhelm · 06-27-17, 04:35 PM

None of this available footage shows combat conditions, though. Compare it to reloading battleship guns. There is good footage online that shows the USS Missiouri firing and reloading her guns from the 80's:

See how it takes about a minute to load the gun, yet during wartime trials the rate of fire per gun was 2 per minute, or 30 seconds.

Now these torpedo videos typically show exercises or weapon trials. In combat conditions where the life of every man on the boat is on the line, reloading would most likely be much faster.

longface · 07-23-17, 10:48 AM

Yes, I thought so too. The "12 hours to load a full complement of weapons" means at port, it takes 12 hours to open the loading hatch, disassemble some parts, place the 26 weapons on their racks, assemble and close the hatch. It does not mean that each torpedo takes two hours to load.

I'm sure that the loading time in CW probably matches the reality of automated loading systems.

Also, from what I can tell, most weapons are inspected well before combat begins. That being said, during combat itself, reloading a single tube is just a matter of having the system ram the selected weapon into the tube after anything inside, such as wiring, has been removed.

Julhelm · 07-23-17, 11:32 AM

At the end of the day, playability and fun are the design drivers here, not realism for the sake of realism. 15-20 minutes to reload a weapon in a US nuclear sub may be realistic, but...

A: 15-20 minute reload per tube is not fun, nor does it fit the 20-30 min average engagement time we aim for.

B: Noone is going to believe it takes that long in reality, anyway.

So I've settled for a tiered system, where on easy level it takes 1 minute to load a weapon, 1½ on casual, 3 minutes on realistic, and 5 on elite. The russian boats can reload in 2-4 minutes depending on the sub, so on realistic and elite you may be at a tactical disadvantage against the enemy.

It's part of the great rebalancing patch I've been working on.

shipkiller1 · 07-23-17, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

At the end of the day, playability and fun are the design drivers here, not realism for the sake of realism. 15-20 minutes to reload a weapon in a US nuclear sub may be realistic, but...

It's part of the great rebalancing patch I've been working on.

Now I have put out a bunch of info on reloading (tube loading) and shipping (loading onto the boat). This was to clear up many preconceived notions that have been floating around.

I personally do not mind that it takes 30 secs or 1 min to reload the tube. It makes the game play go that much faster and more enjoyable. Its not a bad balance.

If I was asked I could only fix two things in the game, it would be keep the torpedo's from acquiring on sunken ships/submarines and have heartier wires... Fixing these two issues would make the the game more realistic and would make for a better game. Everything else is just minutia...

Even if these two are not fixed, it just makes me work a little harder.

06-26-17, 05:56 PM	#1
Steiger Planesman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 187 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	How long does it REALLY take to reload torpedo tubes? I'm wondering how long reloads really took, and were multiple tubes reloaded at once? In the game in takes ~30 seconds, and that doesn't feel right. I know we've got tons of IRL mariners on here who would know something like this. __________________

06-26-17, 06:36 PM	#3
Steiger Planesman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 187 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Can more than 1 tube reload at once? __________________

07-23-17, 10:48 AM	#13
longface Watch Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 24 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Reloading vs. Refitting Yes, I thought so too. The "12 hours to load a full complement of weapons" means at port, it takes 12 hours to open the loading hatch, disassemble some parts, place the 26 weapons on their racks, assemble and close the hatch. It does not mean that each torpedo takes two hours to load. I'm sure that the loading time in CW probably matches the reality of automated loading systems. Also, from what I can tell, most weapons are inspected well before combat begins. That being said, during combat itself, reloading a single tube is just a matter of having the system ram the selected weapon into the tube after anything inside, such as wiring, has been removed.

06-26-17, 06:05 PM	#2
shipkiller1 Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 136 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	15 to 30 minutes.

06-26-17, 07:04 PM	#5
ChaosDuck7 Loader Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 87 Downloads: 107 Uploads: 0	Hopefully this will be changed in the game then to reflect accurate real life reloading limitations?

06-26-17, 07:11 PM	#6
PL_Harpoon Engineer Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 210 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 4	Well, we can't reload the game to load torpedoes in pairs but we can modify game files to so that the total time of loading two torpedoes is the same. It would still mean 10x as much as what's now (I think in all sims reload time is much shorter than that). BTW, shipkiller1 - 2 torpedoes at once means one on port side and one on starboard, or can both be loaded at once on the same side?

06-27-17, 11:08 AM	#7
Barkhorn1x Captain Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Davie, FL Grid DM 23 Posts: 544 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	That article sounds crazy as the 688 and 688i were improvements on earlier classes but, boy, sure doesn't sound like it! Nuts to think that you have to partially take the deck apart to reload. That simply makes no sense. And the pics above point to a more efficient/automated system. I'd like to hear from some former crew mates like Jive Turkey for confirmation here.

06-27-17, 02:14 PM	#8
shipkiller1 Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 136 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Ok, everyone needs to take a step back and forget anything you have heard or read about or pictures you have seen regarding Torpedo loading before 1970.. To answer the first question, yes, port and stbd. Not enough room to do both upper and lower tubes efficiently together. See pic.. This is a fourth flight 688 (688i) and the two tubs on the left are tubes two and four. You can see that it is faster to do one each on each side simultaneously. All torpedo tube loading is 'powered'. The boats do have a block and tackle for this purpose but it is the 'emergency handling gear'. If you loose hydraulics then you use this... If you have lost hydraulics, then you are in a WORLD of hurt... Once you get the weapon into position in front of the tube, then you pivot the tray to align it with the tube (cant). Attach the loading pole to the aft end of the weapon, the pop all for straps that hold the weapon to the dollies. Then set the pivot tray to the depth own ship is currently at.. (important). Then start ramming the weapon into the tube.... slowly.. After the weapon is fully loaded, the lock the weapon into the tube. Remove loading pole, and finish the loading process... cables/wires etc.. which I will not go into here. In the first picture that was posted yes, you have to remove the upper level and middle level decks. That is one of the reasons I stated that it takes two or three hours of setup before you can ship the first weapon. Usually it takes all day.....

06-27-17, 03:14 PM	#10
PL_Harpoon Engineer Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 210 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 4	I think the problem is that the article is written in a such way, that it can be interpreted that you must remove deck floors to reload torpedoes into the tube (from the rack). I think it's reasonable to assume you need to do this to load all torpedoes into their storage area on sub. I also found this video: I know it's a different sub, but the torpedo is the same and at least the ramming process seems similar to what shipkiller1 has said. In this video the process takes 1.5 minutes but you can clearly see how much has been cut out. If you add all the necessary wiring then suddenly 15 minutes doesn't seem that much. It also just appeared to me, that it seems like the upper tubes can be loaded only with the torpedoes from the upper rails. Otherwise it would increase load times even more. Too bad we can't implement realistic reloads (reloading 1 port and 1 starboard torpedo at a time) without the help from the devs. But we can modify the reload times to somehow simulate the same effect (like setting reload times to 7.5 minutes for a single tube). I think I'm gonna play with those things for my mod

06-27-17, 03:26 PM	#11
Barkhorn1x Captain Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Davie, FL Grid DM 23 Posts: 544 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	OK. Think we are talking past each other. That linked article seems to be referencing magazine (in port) replenishment procedures - as does some of the pictures. So of course that's going to be a rather lengthy and involved process. What the OP asked is how long does it take to reload tubes between shots (on patrol). And the consensus appears to be 15 mins. which means the game timeframe is very generous.

06-27-17, 04:35 PM	#12
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 693 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	None of this available footage shows combat conditions, though. Compare it to reloading battleship guns. There is good footage online that shows the USS Missiouri firing and reloading her guns from the 80's: See how it takes about a minute to load the gun, yet during wartime trials the rate of fire per gun was 2 per minute, or 30 seconds. Now these torpedo videos typically show exercises or weapon trials. In combat conditions where the life of every man on the boat is on the line, reloading would most likely be much faster.

07-23-17, 11:32 AM	#14
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 693 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	At the end of the day, playability and fun are the design drivers here, not realism for the sake of realism. 15-20 minutes to reload a weapon in a US nuclear sub may be realistic, but... A: 15-20 minute reload per tube is not fun, nor does it fit the 20-30 min average engagement time we aim for. B: Noone is going to believe it takes that long in reality, anyway. So I've settled for a tiered system, where on easy level it takes 1 minute to load a weapon, 1½ on casual, 3 minutes on realistic, and 5 on elite. The russian boats can reload in 2-4 minutes depending on the sub, so on realistic and elite you may be at a tactical disadvantage against the enemy. It's part of the great rebalancing patch I've been working on.